The Untouchables on Frontline

[EagleSmack]

I do not think the Executive Office has any power to bring anyone into account for anything. The President cannot charge others with crimes. I am sure he could have his Atty General do something but woe to him when he leaves office and a GOP President comes in.

And one day there will be a Republican President.

 

[gopher]

The crimes were happening under Bush, gopher. The meltdown and ensuing financial crisis happened just after Obama took office. Did Bush know what was going on? Probably. Did he completely understand the consequences of what was going on - I never gave him much credit for brains, so maybe not.

Nice retreat from the claim that this one is exclusively on Obama.

one day there will be a Republican President.

Oh, I forgot that Reagan and the two Bush's were RINO's, not true conservatives.

 

[Dixie Cup]

Their whole system stinks! There's a documentary that has either come out or is coming out about Washington D.C. itself and I believe (not positive tho') that it's called "Boomtown". (Kinda missed the first part of the program)

According to the producers, Washington has surpassed even Silicon Valley and Hollywood as the wealthiest city in the US. They have the highest income per capita and they are currently having a construction boom to boot. The top 5% earn more than $400,000 and they gave the figures of the top 20% but I can't remember what it was - I believe it was $250,000 (+/-). Alternatively, the bottom 5% earn less than $9,100/year.

Restaurants are constantly full - especially the higher end ones (so more are opening up) and they have the highest consumption of high-end wines in the US - no cheapie wines for these guys. Lamborginies (sp??) Mazaratti's (sp?) are purchased, for the most part, in cash!! A Dealer interviewed said that "too many were paying cash" Real Estate is booming as well!!!

Unfortunately, all this "boomtown" construction and high-end purchases are all because of the money coming into Washington via Federal taxes and debt borrowing ('xcuse me "stimulant" money) and not by anyone actually working to produce a product or service. In otherwords, it's being paid by the rest of the country who is still suffering the effects of the lackluster economy and the wealth is being created on borrowed money.

In order for companies to be competitive, they need to hire individuals to lobby on their behalf - usually ex-politicians and its quite a lucrative job. They need an "insider" to navigate the large governmental bureacracy. If they don't do it, they won't survive in business because they wouldn't have an inside track on any government projects.

Regarding the people in power, both Dems and Republicans, nepotisim is alive and well. Harry Reid has 2 or 3 relatives (wife, sons, dtrs, dtr-in-laws) who are "lobbiests" as do other Dems and Republicans. The Political Elite is entrenched and growing every year.

And it didn't just start under Obama. It's just become worse under his Administration. This has been going on for 30 years or so.
This whole situation is out of control and someone needs the cajones to change it. They gave an example of one company that spent $39 million on lobbying efforts in one year and realized a 22,000% ROR (rate of return) (yep, that's right, 22 thousand percent).

The program I was watching just gave bits and pieces of the documentary but if enough Americans see it, they're going to be really angry! I'm hoping it gets shown at Theatres across the U.S.

The whole thing is pretty scary and under Obama, things are only going to get worse in my HO.

 

[Mowich]

I do not think the Executive Office has any power to bring anyone into account for anything. The President cannot charge others with crimes. I am sure he could have his Atty General do something but woe to him when he leaves office and a GOP President comes in.

And one day there will be a Republican President.

Good point that last one, Eagle and thanks for the clarification.

Nice retreat from the claim that this one is exclusively on Obama.

It wasn't a retreat, gopher, it was a clarification of where the blame lies for the lack of prosecution after the collapse.

Their whole system stinks! There's a documentary that has either come out or is coming out about Washington D.C. itself and I believe (not positive tho') that it's called "Boomtown". (Kinda missed the first part of the program)

According to the producers, Washington has surpassed even Silicon Valley and Hollywood as the wealthiest city in the US. They have the highest income per capita and they are currently having a construction boom to boot. The top 5% earn more than $400,000 and they gave the figures of the top 20% but I can't remember what it was - I believe it was $250,000 (+/-). Alternatively, the bottom 5% earn less than $9,100/year.

Restaurants are constantly full - especially the higher end ones (so more are opening up) and they have the highest consumption of high-end wines in the US - no cheapie wines for these guys. Lamborginies (sp??) Mazaratti's (sp?) are purchased, for the most part, in cash!! A Dealer interviewed said that "too many were paying cash" Real Estate is booming as well!!!

Unfortunately, all this "boomtown" construction and high-end purchases are all because of the money coming into Washington via Federal taxes and debt borrowing ('xcuse me "stimulant" money) and not by anyone actually working to produce a product or service. In otherwords, it's being paid by the rest of the country who is still suffering the effects of the lackluster economy and the wealth is being created on borrowed money.

In order for companies to be competitive, they need to hire individuals to lobby on their behalf - usually ex-politicians and its quite a lucrative job. They need an "insider" to navigate the large governmental bureacracy. If they don't do it, they won't survive in business because they wouldn't have an inside track on any government projects.

Regarding the people in power, both Dems and Republicans, nepotisim is alive and well. Harry Reid has 2 or 3 relatives (wife, sons, dtrs, dtr-in-laws) who are "lobbiests" as do other Dems and Republicans. The Political Elite is entrenched and growing every year.

And it didn't just start under Obama. It's just become worse under his Administration. This has been going on for 30 years or so.
This whole situation is out of control and someone needs the cajones to change it. They gave an example of one company that spent $39 million on lobbying efforts in one year and realized a 22,000% ROR (rate of return) (yep, that's right, 22 thousand percent).

The program I was watching just gave bits and pieces of the documentary but if enough Americans see it, they're going to be really angry! I'm hoping it gets shown at Theatres across the U.S.

The whole thing is pretty scary and under Obama, things are only going to get worse in my HO.

Dixie, if you can would you please provide a link to the doc? I would be interested in watching it.

BTW, here is a link to another doc that might find quite illuminating.

NOVA | Rise of the Drones

 

[Locutus]

Their whole system stinks! There's a documentary that has either come out or is coming out about Washington D.C. itself and I believe (not positive tho') that it's called "Boomtown". (Kinda missed the first part of the program)

According to the producers, Washington has surpassed even Silicon Valley and Hollywood as the wealthiest city in the US. They have the highest income per capita and they are currently having a construction boom to boot. The top 5% earn more than $400,000 and they gave the figures of the top 20% but I can't remember what it was - I believe it was $250,000 (+/-). Alternatively, the bottom 5% earn less than $9,100/year.

Restaurants are constantly full - especially the higher end ones (so more are opening up) and they have the highest consumption of high-end wines in the US - no cheapie wines for these guys. Lamborginies (sp??) Mazaratti's (sp?) are purchased, for the most part, in cash!! A Dealer interviewed said that "too many were paying cash" Real Estate is booming as well!!!

Unfortunately, all this "boomtown" construction and high-end purchases are all because of the money coming into Washington via Federal taxes and debt borrowing ('xcuse me "stimulant" money) and not by anyone actually working to produce a product or service. In otherwords, it's being paid by the rest of the country who is still suffering the effects of the lackluster economy and the wealth is being created on borrowed money.

In order for companies to be competitive, they need to hire individuals to lobby on their behalf - usually ex-politicians and its quite a lucrative job. They need an "insider" to navigate the large governmental bureacracy. If they don't do it, they won't survive in business because they wouldn't have an inside track on any government projects.

Regarding the people in power, both Dems and Republicans, nepotisim is alive and well. Harry Reid has 2 or 3 relatives (wife, sons, dtrs, dtr-in-laws) who are "lobbiests" as do other Dems and Republicans. The Political Elite is entrenched and growing every year.

And it didn't just start under Obama. It's just become worse under his Administration. This has been going on for 30 years or so.
This whole situation is out of control and someone needs the cajones to change it. They gave an example of one company that spent $39 million on lobbying efforts in one year and realized a 22,000% ROR (rate of return) (yep, that's right, 22 thousand percent).

The program I was watching just gave bits and pieces of the documentary but if enough Americans see it, they're going to be really angry! I'm hoping it gets shown at Theatres across the U.S.

The whole thing is pretty scary and under Obama, things are only going to get worse in my HO.

Good point that last one, Eagle and thanks for the clarification.



It wasn't a retreat, gopher, it was a clarification of where the blame lies for the lack of prosecution after the collapse.



Dixie, if you can would you please provide a link to the doc? I would be interested in watching it.

BTW, here is a link to another doc that might find quite illuminating.

NOVA | Rise of the Drones

Perhaps this?



1/25/13 Hannity Special: Boomtown Part I - YouTube

1/25/13 Hannity Special: Boomtown Part II - YouTube

1/25/13 Hannity Special: Boomtown Part III - YouTube

 

[Mowich]

Making Them Pay (and Confess)


By nominating Ms. White, a former federal prosecutor, to head the S.E.C. last week, President Obama appeared to send a message that Washington was finally going to get tough with financial wrongdoers. Tough enforcement has been pretty much AWOL on his watch. Maybe Ms. White can change that with a new, aggressive approach.

Here’s a good place to start: The S.E.C. routinely lets companies and individuals settle cases against them without admitting or denying its findings. This lets bad actors pretend that they’ve done nothing wrong. It also makes it harder for investors to mount successful lawsuits against them.

Regulators say this is the best approach. The practice, they contend, helps the S.E.C. and other agencies avoid costly, time-consuming litigation that would tax already-stretched resources. Quick settlements, rather than long trials, mean victims get restitution faster. And there’s always the possibility that the S.E.C. might lose in court.

But these no-admission settlements can be little more than a wrist slap — and certainly do not qualify as punishment. Most financial penalties end up being paid for by the company’s shareholders or its insurance policies. That’s not much of a deterrent.

Here is another reason the S.E.C. should junk these arrangements: other prosecutors have already done so. Preet Bharara, the United States attorney for the Southern District of New York — hired by Ms. White in 2000 when she ran that office — has made it a priority to require admissions from defendants in civil fraud cases brought by his prosecutors.

Such admissions are a way to hold defendants accountable, as well as being an important part of the public record, Mr. Bharara says.



More
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/b...nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130127&_r=1&

 

[gopher]

It wasn't a retreat, gopher, it was a clarification of where the blame lies for the lack of prosecution after the collapse.

Your own initial link shows some of those collapses occurred during Bush's years. Therefore, it was the DOJ under his reign that bears responsibility for not having prosecuted, assuming a crime took place. On that basis what I want you to do is this:


1) list each crime that took place

2) give specifics as to when each & every crime occurred

3) list who was responsible for taking legal action against the perpetrators (SEC/DOJ/FBI, etc)



Then, show me who is specifically responsible for failing to action proper legal action. BTW, why do you suppose the Congress which has so many Republicans who are only too eager to blame Obama for everything under the sun has not taken any committee meetings to explore why these occurred and how to stop them?

 

[Mowich]

Your own initial link shows some of those collapses occurred during Bush's years. Therefore, it was the DOJ under his reign that bears responsibility for not having prosecuted, assuming a crime took place. On that basis what I want you to do is this:

1) list each crime that took place

2) give specifics as to when each & every crime occurred

3) list who was responsible for taking legal action against the perpetrators (SEC/DOJ/FBI, etc)



Then, show me who is specifically responsible for failing to action proper legal action. BTW, why do you suppose the Congress which has so many Republicans who are only too eager to blame Obama for everything under the sun has not taken any committee meetings to explore why these occurred and how to stop them?

More than enough blame to round, gopher as this article points out.

George W. Bush - 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis - TIME

The following articles have a really good break down of what happened and when, gopher. The collapse did start during the last year Bushie was Pres - you are right and I was wrong about that. However, the financial crisis didn't come to a head until September of 2008. By then, Bush was on his way out and the entire fiasco fell to Obama when he was elected Pres just two months later. As I have stated before, it is the lack of prosecution under Obama's watch which it the main reason the bankers have not been held to account.

The 2008 Meltdown And Where The Blame Falls - Forbes


Global financial crisis: five key stages 2007-2011 | Business | The Guardian

Not being party to the documents myself, gopher, I can only go on what is known now as far as alleged criminal activity. The following article outlines some of the facts that have come to light.

'And our office has focused on the due diligence process because we were really looking to bring cases that were not about one deal or five deals or 10 deals, but to bring what we call “platform cases” that are about a systemic pattern of misconduct.

And the heart of that was the representations that were made to the public that these firms, these banks, had a rigorous due diligence process, and that they checked the loans they were getting, and they packaged them together into mortgage-backed securities, and that they were making sure the lenders they bought them from were following the right guidelines, and they had an ongoing process they represented over and over again to keep track of the loans. And if there were loans that turned out to be bad, they had the right to make the originators, the lenders, take them back.


We found in several cases that we brought already — and we have other investigations under way — it was a sham. A lot of them used the same third-party due diligence firms to screen the loans. There’s evidence that they knew they were taking loans they shouldn’t take. There’s evidence that there were folks who tried to raise the alarm and were silenced. …


They were more concerned, at the end of the day, about their relationship with these mortgage firms, Countrywide and others, than they were about their responsibilities to their investors. That’s really the heart of our office’s piece of this broader investigation, these systemic misrepresentations.


No one would have bought any mortgage-backed securities, not one certificate, not one share, if they hadn’t had confidence that they were checking the loans to make sure they had the proper paperwork, that the folks who had taken them out could afford them. They represented that they were doing that, and we’ve determined that in fact they were not."

Eric Schneiderman: Mortgage Task Force Eyeing Broader Suits | The Untouchables | FRONTLINE | PBS

You might want to check out the PBS 'Untouchables' doc yourself, gopher..........here is a link.

The Untouchables | FRONTLINE | PBS

and when you done with that..........you can watch this:


The Biggest Bank Heist Ever! | HD - YouTube


Look, gopher..........I'm glad Obama got re-elected, he was certainly a better choice, IMHO, then the guy with the magic underwear. However, there are many things he has to start doing if he wants his legacy to have any real meaning.........and getting convictions of those responsible for the financial crisis for the American people would be a grand one.

 

[EagleSmack]

Look, gopher..........I'm glad Obama got re-elected, he was certainly a better choice, IMHO, then the guy with the magic underwear. However, there are many things he has to start doing if he wants his legacy to have any real meaning.........and getting convictions of those responsible for the financial crisis for the American people would be a grand one.

And one for himself?

 

[petros]

If we were to imprison business people and brokers for
ethics the jails would overflow to the point there would be no room for criminals.

Yeah? So? Render them to Poland or Gitmo for waterboarding and tittie twisters like the terrorists they are.

 

[Mowich]

And one for himself?

A set of magic underwear.........do you mean........thought that was a Mormon thing. :lol:

 

[EagleSmack]

A set of magic underwear.........do you mean........thought that was a Mormon thing. :lol:

Noooo... A conviction!

Your quote was auto trimmed in my post.

 

[Mowich]

Noooo... A conviction!

Your quote was auto trimmed in my post.

Ah..........sorry. When was the last time a Pres was convicted of anything in a court of law, Eagle........real question. That said, if they can prove he did something illegal than why shouldn't he have to answer for it though from what I have been hearing about drone strikes, that might be a better route to go than the financial crisis.

 

[EagleSmack]

Well there was just some talk going around this thread of bringing Bush to justice (for some bizarre reason) and I was wondering if maybe he could push to have a conviction of his own. Maybe not eh?

 

[gopher]

More than enough blame to round, gopher as this article points out.

George W. Bush - 25 People to Blame for the Financial Crisis - TIME

The following articles have a really good break down of what happened and when, gopher. The collapse did start during the last year Bushie was Pres - you are right and I was wrong about that. However, the financial crisis didn't come to a head until September of 2008. By then, Bush was on his way out and the entire fiasco fell to Obama when he was elected Pres just two months later. As I have stated before, it is the lack of prosecution under Obama's watch which it the main reason the bankers have not been held to account.



Look, gopher..........I'm glad Obama got re-elected, he was certainly a better choice, IMHO, then the guy with the magic underwear. However, there are many things he has to start doing if he wants his legacy to have any real meaning.........and getting convictions of those responsible for the financial crisis for the American people would be a grand one.

OK. Then this is what I want you to do --- Delete the following line from your initial post:



"Sorry, gopher...........this one really is on Obama. "


Why? Because the BLAME OBAMA blame game makes your argument, like those of so many on this forum, look silly.

I am not denying that the Obama DOJ/SEC and whatever needs to go after bankers and others who violate securities regulations. Certainly, it would have been far smarter if they had done this rather than go after Swartz with such rigor that the insecure little man killed himself even though he could easily have won the case. But this childish blame game is so ridiculous, so repetitive, so absolutely absurd that it makes your argument look totally pointless.

It is time for you, Walter, Teddyballgame, and others to stop pretending that Obama caused the Fall in the Garden of Eden. You talk about Obama needing to take certain steps in order to gain credibility. But you overlook the fact that you and others need to take certain steps if you wish to gain credibility as well.

 

[EagleSmack]

Oh Obama!

Government audit criticizes exec pay at GM, Ally, AIG after bailouts | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

 

[Goober]

Worth reading

Neil Macdonald: Too big to jail, Washington's new line on Wall Street - World - CBC News

American politicians love to talk about "holding people accountable." Here in Washington, someone is always sternly holding someone else accountable.

The phrase should enter the political aphorism hall of fame, along with "frank exchange of views," "at an appropriate time," and of course the granddaddy of them all: "What the American people truly want is…"

The reality of accountability is often quite different. Remember "Too big to fail"?

That was the ugly political shorthand for companies, Wall Street banks especially, that had amassed so much power and money that letting them suffer the consequences of their own stupidity would cause such widespread damage that they must be rescued.

Rescued, of course, with taxes gathered from the people their stupidity and greed had seriously harmed.

Too big to fail quickly morphed into a Washington acronym — TBTF — in the wake of the 2008 financial collapse.

The investment banks that triggered the collapse were almost all deemed TBTF.

The government gave them hundreds of billions of dollars, which the banks then immediately took to the gamed casino of the stock market, enriching themselves almost obscenely before piously repaying the original bailout money.
Where’s my bailout?

Meanwhile, thousands of TSTJR (too small to justify rescuing) companies were left to strangle.

 

[Goober]

MF- Bump to you.

 

[L Gilbert]

Economic Expert: We Are Already In An Engineered Recession
Lest We Forget: Why We Had A Financial Crisis - Forbes
I found those after I started looking for a very good documentary on the recession. I have it somewhere in the desktop but can't remember what I called it.

 

[Goober]

Economic Expert: We Are Already In An Engineered Recession
Lest We Forget: Why We Had A Financial Crisis - Forbes
I found those after I started looking for a very good documentary on the recession. I have it somewhere in the desktop but can't remember what I called it.

I heard you are slightly past 25 so that is normal.