The Syria Thread: Everything you wanted to know or say about it

[coldstream]

But Syriasly, folks. . .


The world now has a chance to end war in Syria




By Jimmy Carter,


Jimmy Carter is the 39th president of the United States.

The only way to be assured that Syrian chemical weapons will not be used in the future is not through a military strike but through a successful international effort.

Regardless of the postponed congressional vote regarding the use of military force, other actions should be taken to address the situation in Syria, including an urgent effort to convene without conditions the long-delayed peace conference the United States and Russia announced in May. A resolution in the U.N. General Assembly to condemn any further use of chemical weapons, regardless of perpetrator, would be approved overwhelmingly, and the United States should support Russia’s proposal that Syria’s chemical weapons be placed under U.N. control. A military strike by the United States is undesirable and will become unnecessary if this alternative proposal is strongly supported by the U.N. Security Council. ....


Jimmy Carter: The world now has a chance to end war in Syria - The Washington Post

Wait a second, Jimmy... this was a NO BOOTs on the GROUND option.. NOTHING is said about intervening in the Civil War.. and especially deploying a Peace Keeping Force. The latter would be completely ineffective and another meatgrinder of IEDs and collateral damage as every other Middle East and Islamic adventure has been. The only thing anyone has agreed to is to put Syria chemical weapons under of international supervision.. or destroyed.

Also while everyone agrees that Sarin gas was used in the attack of August 21st... there is NO consensus as to who used it.. AND.. no incontrovertable proof that it was the government forces.. has been presented. In fact the use of Sarin was also used on Syrian troops the same day... indicating its availibility to the rebels.

I don't know why an utterly FAILED President warrants such attention. Basicly everything he did as President ended up in disaster.. he's completely without competence in international affairs.. and is a lousy poet as well.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Wait a second, Jimmy... this was a NO BOOTs on the GROUND option.. NOTHING is said about intervening in the Civil War.. and especially deploying a Peace Keeping Force. The latter would be completely ineffective and another meatgrinder of IEDs and collateral damage as every other Middle East and Islamic adventure has been. The only thing anyone has agreed to is to put Syria weapons under of international supervision.. or destroyed.

Also while everyone agrees that Sarin gas was used in the attack of August 21st... there is NO consensus as to who used it. AND.. no incontrovertable proof that is was the government forces has been presented. In fact the use of Sarin was also used on Syrian troopts the same day... indicating its availibility to the rebels.

I don't know why an utterly FAILED President warrants such attention. Basicly everything he did as President ended up in disaster.

Nonsense. He was instrumental in getting Ronald Reagan elected.

 

[coldstream]

Nonsense. He was instrumental in getting Ronald Reagan elected.

.. right.. another big success. :roll:

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

.. right.. another big success. :roll:

Hey! Reagan was the best president we had between Carter and Bush Sr.!

 

[B00Mer]

Hey! Reagan was the best president we had between Carter and Bush Sr.!

1. Franklin D. Roosevelt
2. Kennedy
3. Reagan
4. George W. Bush.


Reagan as George Gipp.mp4 - YouTube

 

[Omicron]

I have to disagree here, Om. Or, rather, suggest a refinement on your definition. I'd say a liar is someone who knows the truth and chooses to say something different, or who could easily find the truth and declines to do so.

Spreading tasty rumours or misinformation whilst deliberately refusing to check on them falls into the same category of dishonesty as deliberately lying, in my not-really-very-humble opinion.

Hmm... well, there is the case of people who feel, on some level, that what they're espousing might not be true, and will choose to refuse to look at the facts - in effect sticking fingers in their ears and going la la la - which means they know if they were to actually see the facts they'd have to accept it, which means they have a sort-of conscience, such that it means they are trying to maintain a state of "plausible deniability" with *themselves*, which means, technically, they are choosing to lie to themselves, but isn't that normally called "self-delusion"?

But I get your point. There's bare-faced liers, and there's people who really didn't know, therefore shouldn't be called liers just because they happened to not know the facts, but yeah, there is that funny grey-zone where people refuse to look at the facts because they have their mind made up, and don't want their beliefs to be messed up by facts, which means, on some weird cognitive-dissonance level, they're choosing to lie to themselves.

I'm never quite sure how to react to people like that: On one hand, they wouldn't be doing it if they didn't have some sort of conscience, therefore they are not psychopathic... a psychopath would never worry about stuff like that. On the other hand... what are they hoping to achieve? Are they thinking that if they force themselves to believe something - regardless of the facts - hard enough, that eventually what they want to believe will become reality by virtue of the power of faith?

Anyway... as far as Syria goes, something that kind'a annoys me about mainstream media is the way news channels go on-and-on about should-Obama-hit-Syria with *nobody* simply delivering a calm report of the details of the rebel conflict in Syria and how it lead to the use of toxic-gas.

I mean, crumb, they're 24/7 news channels, with expert after expert droning on with opinions, and *nowhere* are the channels able to find time in their 24-hour non-stop news schedule to deliver a simple cause-and-effect report of what the situation is, and how it came to be, such that there are half-a-dozen 24-hour news channels, yet people *still* have to do independent research to learn the relevant facts, which is what a 24-hour news channel was supposed to be able to do that stations offering only evening and late-night news didn't have time to do.

Grr.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

1. Franklin D. Roosevelt
2. Kennedy
3. Reagan
4. George W. Bush.

1. Lincoln
2. Truman
3. FDR
4. Reagan
5. Johnson
6. TR

 

[darkbeaver]

The Syrian conflict will end one and a half Empires.

 

[petros]

Anyway... as far as Syria goes, something that kind's annoys me about
mainstream media is the way news channels go on-and-on about
should-Obama-hit-Syria with *nobody* simply delivering a calm report of the
details of the rebel conflict in Syria and how it lead to the use of
toxic-gas.

The Mujahedeen hired by OPEC is getting it's arses kicked so a little gas leaked out to help them along.

 

[hunboldt]

He was Putinized.

There's no coming back from his bath house image now.

But not for lack of trying....:lol:

mate him to Annie See what whelps

 

[EagleSmack]

War is a sane alternative? Killing people who are killing people who are killing people? No one knows the consequences of rash decisions.

I am with the majority of the American people.

But you sound as if there is no war already.

 

[petros]

mate him to Annie See what whelps

 

[EagleSmack]

I am, quite seriously, hoping the Russian proposal fails, though that's looking less and less likely.

Far more important for the Congress to refuse Obama authorisation to attack.

That is what I am hoping for... a vote in Congress of a resounding NO

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I am with the majority of the American people.

But you sound as if there is no war already.

Been thinking about you, Eagle.

Now, we've established that you're a war criminal because you use the USMC seal as your avatar, so I've been thinking about an avatar change for you.

Ponies make great avatars, but you bein' all manly and stuff, I didn't think Pinkie Pie or Fluttershy quite fit. So I thought about some of the boy ponies.

Braeburn's not a bad idea, but a little too cowboy.

Then I thought maybe Big Macintosh, but he's a little country for you.

Doctor Whooves was almost right, but I felt like there was something missing.

Then I hit on it. The perfect pony avatar for you. Shining Armor! Captain of the Royal Guard!

So there you go.

Of course, there's still the "war criminal" problem, since Shining Armor used his magic to blast the Changelings that were attacking Canterlot, and I'm sure some of our lefty friends will be happy to interpret the Geneva Conventions as forbidding magic in warfare.

But hey, I won't tell if you won't.

 

[petros]

Obama already said that Senators are going to have to coddle their constituents because Gov knows best over democracy.

Besides. GE is involved. Whatever GE wants, GE gets.

 

[EagleSmack]

Do you have anything "baby killer" specific? A now banned CanCon member used to love calling me that.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Do you have anything "baby killer" specific? A now banned CanCon member used to love calling me that.

Hmmm. . . tough one. The closest thing to a "foal killer" we have is Queen Chrysalis.

but now we're back to the whole gender problem.

How 'bout one of her Changeling minions?

 

[petros]

American Primacy And It's Geostrategic Imperatives
Key Quotes From Zbigniew Brzezinksi's Seminal Book The Grand Chessboard.

"Ever since the continents started interacting politically, some five hundred years ago, Eurasia has been the center of world power."- (p. xiii) (Eurasia means "the Middle East")

"... But in the meantime, it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus of also challenging America. The formulation of a comprehensive and integrated Eurasian geostrategy is therefore the purpose of this book.” (p. xiv)

"In that context, how America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania (Australia) geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31)

“The momentum of Asia's economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea." (p.125)

"In the long run, global politics are bound to become increasingly uncongenial to the concentration of hegemonic power in the hands of a single state. Hence, America is not only the first, as well as the only, truly global superpower, but it is also likely to be the very last." (p.209)

“Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35)

"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)

 

[B00Mer]

Do you have anything "baby killer" specific? A now banned CanCon member used to love calling me that.

...and it took you this long to figure it out.

 

[EagleSmack]

...and it took you this long to figure it out.

Figure what out? That a former CanCon member repeatedly called me a baby killer? I figured that out as soon as he said it.