The steps to belief (or disbelief)

[eanassir]

The bold statement is false. I disagree. You say there are no plants and no animals and anybody with any understanding of desert ecosystems will disagree as well.

Desert Plant Survival - DesertUSA

Frog and Toad—

This is a parable of the life and death, and God's evidence to the existence of the spiritual world: it implies:

The plant will grow and the land will become viable because of the rain water that fall down from the sky; without this water (and when there is drought) the land will be dead: with no growth of any plant.

Of course in drought conditions: the living organisms will adapt somewhat to such hard circumstances of the water loss:
the bacteria and microorganisms may encapsulate themselves, some plants will have some means of adaptation, some animals in like manner may dig deep inside the earth …etc; but practically life will stop activities in extreme drought; while when water comes down the life will be active once again: the plant will start to grow …etc.

So in similar manner: the living being cannot be alive unless there is the ethereal spirit; and when this spirit departs the living being will die: it is like the water to the dead desolate land.

And in fact the material structure is only a mould for forming the ethereal structure or the spirit; without the material mould, the ethereal spirit cannot be formed and cannot last.
man-after-death.t35.com/#The_Matter_and_the_Ether_​

 

[petros]

What about the Norse gods?

Dead, by any reasonable measure. As are the old Greek, Roman, Babylonian, Assyrian, etc. gods.

Dead are they? Ohhhh noooo they're not. There are still groups practicing worship of these ancient god and godesses in Greece. Britain has the godess Britania, the US has a giant Mithra on Ellis Island and every year Canafian's hand out little statues to our godesss Juno.


That doesn't sound dead to me.

 

[Spade]

And every week we celebrate Tiw, Woden, Thor, and Frigga.

 

[eanassir]

Dead, by any reasonable measure. As are the old Greek, Roman, Babylonian, Assyrian, etc. gods. In fact all the gods humanity's ever talked about but one, are clearly dead. Any modern Jew, Christian, or Muslim, would argue that those were all false gods, they've got the lock on the one real one. But realistically, there's no argument that can be made in favour of his existence that doesn't equally well apply to all the dead ones. From which I conclude that it's all BS, they're human inventions, myths that have very little to do with reality except in the form of archetypal stories about the human condition. They have a certain didactic and pedagogic value, but they can't be taken as literally true. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no demons, no supernatural beings of any sort, from omnipotent gods to tooth fairies. It's all mythology. It's not without purpose or meaning, but it's not literally true either, it's metaphorical.

God is Eternal; He instructed people to serve Him alone, but successive generations set forth many gods together with God Almighty, according to their wrong-doing, and they considered their idols, angels, prophets and righteous men as equals to the Creator according to their oppression.​

God is the truth, and cannot be compared to some stones or some men like prophets or kings. God cannot be denied by the repeated assertion of the atheist.​

The true religion of the exclusive devotion to God alone will last, while all the falsehood and the false gods disappear. In fact the false gods and idols: God did not reveal their worshipping in any heavenly scripture, but the wrong-doers invented such multiple false gods.​

This is in the Quran 13: 17 ​

أَنزَلَ مِنَ السَّمَاء مَاء فَسَالَتْ أَوْدِيَةٌ بِقَدَرِهَا فَاحْتَمَلَ السَّيْلُ زَبَدًا رَّابِيًا وَمِمَّا يُوقِدُونَ عَلَيْهِ فِي النَّارِ ابْتِغَاء حِلْيَةٍ أَوْ مَتَاعٍ زَبَدٌ مِّثْلُهُ كَذَلِكَ يَضْرِبُ اللّهُ الْحَقَّ وَالْبَاطِلَ فَأَمَّا الزَّبَدُ فَيَذْهَبُ جُفَاء وَأَمَّا مَا يَنفَعُ النَّاسَ فَيَمْكُثُ فِي الأَرْضِ كَذَلِكَ يَضْرِبُ اللّهُ الأَمْثَالَ​

The explanation:
(He sends down – from the sky – water, so that the valleys flow [with water] according to their measure,
so the torrent drifts [with it] multiplying "zabad" [: drifted substances],
and [it drifts also] some of what they heat with fire seeking the ornament or [for their] use – that being "zabad" [: drifted substances] like it . ​

As such God gives the parable for the true [religion of the Islam] and the false [idolatry, association with God and atheism]: ​

As for the "zabad" [the parable for false doctrines: the atheism and association with God]; it will go away, whereas that which benefits people [the parable for the Islam religion]: it will remain on earth. As such God gives parables.)​

This aya was discussed in details in the reply #14, in the subject of :​

forums.canadiancontent.net/alternate-theories/73149-does-rain-come-down-cloud.html​

 

[Spade]

The true religion of the exclusive devotion to God alone will last, while all the falsehood and the false gods disappear. In fact the false gods and idols: God did not reveal their worshipping in any heavenly scripture, but the wrong-doers invented such multiple false gods.

And, your god is not an invention? Why must he speak Arabic? Yours is as ethnocentric a god as the Norse gods.

 

[Cliffy]

God is Eternal; He instructed people to serve Him alone, but successive generations set forth many gods together with God Almighty, according to their wrong-doing, and they considered their idols, angels, prophets and righteous men as equals to the Creator according to their oppression.

eanassir,

You are one persistent but silly bugger. Nobody on here cares what your fictitious book has to say about your fictitious god. If a god demands your praise and servitude, he is a tyrant and should be killed. Since your god is a fiction, then the only real option for you is just to tell him to go to hell.

 

[petros]

And every week we celebrate Tiw, Woden, Thor, and Frigga.

Don't forget Saturn and God's Sun

 

[petros]

God is Eternal; He instructed people to serve Him alone, but successive generations set forth many gods together with God Almighty, according to their wrong-doing, and they considered their idols, angels, prophets and righteous men as equals to the Creator according to their oppression.

eanassir,

You are one persistent but silly bugger.Nobody on here cares what your fictitious book has to say about your fictitious god. If a god demands your praise and servitude, he is a tyrant and should be killed. Since your god is a fiction, then the only real option for you is just to tell him to go to hell.

Amen...Ra

 

[Spade]

Don't forget Saturn and God's Sun

Sorry (Thory), I am remiss! Moonday's child is fair of face; sadly I am not a Moonday child!

 

[eanassir]

It is very strange indeed the way of the atheist thinking: they guess, and think then they insist on some of their false statements that God the Creator does not exist! How is that?
And they give – to their false idea – the absolute truth, and they rejoice and are glad by that, when in fact they are losers … losers … losers.

This is in the Quran 18: 103-105​

قُلْ هَلْ نُنَبِّئُكُمْ بِالْأَخْسَرِينَ أَعْمَالًا ؟ الَّذِينَ ضَلَّ سَعْيُهُمْ فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَهُمْ يَحْسَبُونَ أَنَّهُمْ يُحْسِنُونَ صُنْعًا . أُولَئِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بِآيَاتِ رَبِّهِمْ وَلِقَائِهِ فَحَبِطَتْ أَعْمَالُهُمْ فَلَا نُقِيمُ لَهُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ وَزْنًا​

The explanation:
(Say: "Shall we tell you who will be the greatest losers in [the reward of] their works?"

[They are] those whose efforts in the Worldly life will be lost, while they think that they are doing good deeds.

Those are they who unbelieve in the revelations of their Lord and [in] the meeting with Him; so their works have failed, and on the Judgment Day We shall not make for them any judgment.)

man-after-death.t35.com​

 

[eanassir]

God is Eternal; He instructed people to serve Him alone, but successive generations set forth many gods together with God Almighty, according to their wrong-doing, and they considered their idols, angels, prophets and righteous men as equals to the Creator according to their oppression.

eanassir,

You are one persistent but silly bugger.Nobody on here cares what your fictitious book has to say about your fictitious god. If a god demands your praise and servitude, he is a tyrant and should be killed. Since your god is a fiction, then the only real option for you is just to tell him to go to hell.

If it was to me, and according to your stubbornness, I should hurl you at once in the depth of Hell. However, God is More Terrible at punishment.

If man is proud, this is not good, because he is only a limited being; but for God He is Proud deservantly. Anyone that is tyrant is not good, because he is like other people; but for God He is the King with absolute power, and He disposes in His kingdom as He pleases.

About their skepticism concerning the Creator: this is in the Quran 14: 10 about the reply of the apostles to their people who denied them:

قَالَتْ رُسُلُهُمْ أَفِي اللّهِ شَكٌّ فَاطِرِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ يَدْعُوكُمْ لِيَغْفِرَ لَكُم مِّن ذُنُوبِكُمْ وَيُؤَخِّرَكُمْ إِلَى أَجَلٍ مُّسَمًّى ​

The explanation:
(Their messengers said: "Is there any doubt regarding God, the Splitter of the heavens and the earth, Who calls you [to serve Him] that He may forgive you your sins and reprieve you to a stated term?)
-----------------------------

And in spite of His might, He does not wrong anyone; those who go to Hell, they deserve it; while those who go to Paradise, they go with God's favor and grace.​

 

[petros]

Why did Judeo/Christianity start polytheistic go monotheistic and back to polytheistic again?

 

[L Gilbert]

It is very strange indeed the way of the atheist thinking: they guess, and think then they insist on some of their false statements that God the Creator does not exist! How is that? ​

Priove the statements are false without relying on cut and pastes from your book of fallacy. There is NO evidence for the existence of gods, only hearsay.

And they give – to their false idea – the absolute truth, and they rejoice and are glad by that, when in fact they are losers … losers … losers.

Then we are happy losers without fear of going to som hell or other punishment for not praising some sadistic, egomaniacal bombast.​

 

[Cannuck]

Really? So then any irrational claim, error of fact, logical fallacy, and so on, constitutes a legitimate argument? I don't see how we can discuss anything on that basis.

You guys seem to be doing OK.

 

[L Gilbert]

If it was to me, and according to your stubbornness, I should hurl you at once in the depth of Hell. However, God is More Terrible at punishment.

Too bad it isn't up to you then, huh? I am sure you would love to condemn good people simply because they think differently than you. lmao

..........Anyone that is tyrant is not good

I agree.

but for God He is the King with absolute power, and He disposes in His kingdom as He pleases.

Yup a dictatorial tyrant.

About their skepticism concerning the Creator: this is in the Quran 14: 10 about the reply of the apostles to their people who denied them:

Who cares? The Quran talks too much and says little.

 

[eanassir]

And, your god is not an invention?

My god is God the Creator (the same Yahweh in Hebrew, and Allah in Arabic.) He is not any invention; glory be to Him! In fact He invented the universe of His own accord.​

Why must he speak Arabic?

He reveals to His apostles by their languages: God revealed the Torah in Hebrew to Moses, the Gospel in Aramaic and the Quran in Arabic to Prophet Mohammed.

This is in the Quran 14: 4​

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ بِلِسَانِ قَوْمِهِ لِيُبَيِّنَ لَهُمْ فَيُضِلُّ اللّهُ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي مَن يَشَاء وَهُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ​

The explanation:
(We did not send any messenger [before you, O Mohammed] but [to teach] in the language of his [own] people, in order to explain to them.
So God would lead astray those whom He please and would guide whom He please, and He is the Almighty, the Most Wise.)​

Yours is as ethnocentric a god as the Norse gods.

This is not true; God is the Lord of all nations and worlds; this is the in the opening soorah of the Quran 1: 2​

الْحَمْدُ للّهِ رَبِّ الْعَالَمِينَ​

The explanation:
(Praise be to God, the Lord of the worlds [and nations].)
All people are His creatures; the most honored among them are the most god-fearing among them.

As in the Quran 49: 13​

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَى وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ اللَّهِ أَتْقَاكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ​

The explanation:
(O mankind, We have created you male and female, and made you nations and tribes, that you may know one another.
Surely the noblest among you in the sight of God is the most godfearing of you. God is All-knowing, All-aware.)​

 

[eanassir]

The Quran talks too much and says little.

On the contrary the Quran is a concise book; it is full of knowledge and this knowledge stems, branch and rebranch to give tremendous information and valuable instructions.

This is in the Quran 38: 29

كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ مُبَارَكٌ لِّيَدَّبَّرُوا آيَاتِهِ وَلِيَتَذَكَّرَ أُوْلُوا الْأَلْبَابِ​

The explanation:
([This is] a Scripture that We have revealed to you [Mohammed],
full of blessing [: its meaning increases by the interpretation],
that they may ponder its revelations,
and that men of understanding may reflect.)

quranandhebrewbible.t35.com​

 

[eanassir]

Priove the statements are false without relying on cut and pastes from your book of fallacy. There is NO evidence for the existence of gods, only hearsay.[/font][/size][/color]

Then we are happy losers without fear of going to som hell or other punishment for not praising some sadistic, egomaniacal bombast.[/left]

You have not understood the equation: ​

The disbelievers are the worst among mankind: they are wrong-doers: they wrong themselves and wrong other people, and for this reason God does not guide them, and will oblige them to Hell deservantly; ​

He dislikes them: His enemies: the misfortunate in this World and in the next afterlife; because of their wickedness, transgression and evil-doing contrary to what they claim. ​

This is in the Quran 76: 31​

يُدْخِلُ مَن يَشَاء فِي رَحْمَتِهِ وَالظَّالِمِينَ أَعَدَّ لَهُمْ عَذَابًا أَلِيمًا​

The explanation:
(He will admit, into His mercy [: His Paradise], whomsoever He will [if that one is not a wrong-doer]; ​

as for the wrong-doers, He has prepared for them a painful chastisement.)​

And like His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 10: 52​

ثُمَّ قِيلَ لِلَّذِينَ ظَلَمُواْ ذُوقُواْ عَذَابَ الْخُلْدِ هَلْ تُجْزَوْنَ إِلاَّ بِمَا كُنتُمْ تَكْسِبُونَ​

The explanation:
(Then it will be said to the wrong-doers [after their death]:
"Suffer of the lasting chastisement! Are you recompensed but for [the sins] that you earned [in the life of the World]?")​

See here the last two questions and their answers (and the rest of the questions and answers; in order that you may be guided rightly and prosper in the next afterlife – this is to me and to you and to all who read this.)
man-after-death.t35.com/3.htm#Instructions
​

 

[talloola]

You have not understood the equation: ​

The disbelievers are the worst among mankind: they are wrong-doers: they wrong themselves and wrong other people, and for this reason God does not guide them, and will oblige them to Hell deservantly; ​

He dislikes them: His enemies: the misfortunate in this World and in the next afterlife; because of their wickedness, transgression and evil-doing contrary to what they claim.

But I am not a disbeliever, I believe in many wonderful things in life, just don't happen
to believe what you believe. And your idea of a 'wrong doer' and mine are different
as well, there are many aspects to being a good person, and many different approaches to having a good clean life, I don't dislike people, don't have enemies, I am not evil,
do not think anyone is evil, those thoughts are so 'sad' and 'negative', life is not for
the negative and the hateful, it is for the open hearted and open minded, and those
who love our earth and want to make it a better place.​

 

[eanassir]

You have not understood the equation: ​

The disbelievers are the worst among mankind: they are wrong-doers: they wrong themselves and wrong other people, and for this reason God does not guide them, and will oblige them to Hell deservantly; ​

He dislikes them: His enemies: the misfortunate in this World and in the next afterlife; because of their wickedness, transgression and evil-doing contrary to what they claim. ​

But I am not a disbeliever, I believe in many wonderful things in life, just don't happen
to believe what you believe. And your idea of a 'wrong doer' and mine are different
as well, there are many aspects to being a good person, and many different approaches to having a good clean life, I don't dislike people, don't have enemies, I am not evil,
do not think anyone is evil, those thoughts are so 'sad' and 'negative', life is not for
the negative and the hateful, it is for the open hearted and open minded, and those

who love our earth and want to make it a better place.​

None can say this man or woman is good or not, but only God does know that.

See that Abraham's father was misguided, as were Noah's wife and grandson, Lot's wife and Mohammed's uncle.

These were intimate to such prophets and dear to them, and in spite of this, these prophets could not save their dear father, wife, grandson and uncle. That is because the matter of guidance is up to God alone.

This I cannot tell about myself or any other man or woman.

It is in the Quran 29: 52
قُلْ كَفَى بِاللَّهِ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ شَهِيدًا يَعْلَمُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَالَّذِينَ آمَنُوا بِالْبَاطِلِ وَكَفَرُوا بِاللَّهِ أُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْخَاسِرُونَ
The explanation:
(Say [Mohammed to them]: "God suffices as a Witness between me and you.
He knows whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth.
Those who believe in falsehood and unbelieve in God – such will be the losers.)

This also is expounded in many other ayat like these 98: 6-8 ​

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ وَالْمُشْرِكِينَ فِي نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا أُوْلَئِكَ هُمْ شَرُّ الْبَرِيَّةِ . إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ أُوْلَئِكَ هُمْ خَيْرُ الْبَرِيَّةِ . ..الخ​

The explanation:
>> (Surely, those who unbelieve, among the people of the Bible [lit. Scripture] and [among] the associaters, shall be in the fire of Hell to dwell therein forever;
they are the worst of [all] people.

>> Surely, those who believe and work righteous [deeds]; they are the best of [all] people.

Their reward, with their Lord [in His neighborhood in the ethereal heavens, will] be the seven Gardens, with rivers flowing below their [trees], to be therein forever;

God [will] be well-pleased with them [according to their obedience],
and they [will] be well-pleased with Him [according to the bounties He will have bestowed on them];

that [good pleasure and prosperity] will be for any who fears his Lord.)

man-after-death.t35.com ​