The Sickness of Canadian Anti-Americanism

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
Here's a refresher article, to keep the blood and self denial flowing;

Before You Flee to Canada, Can We Talk?


By Nora Jacobson
Sunday, November 28, 2004; Page B02


TORONTO

I moved to Canada after the 2000 election. Although I did it mainly for career reasons -- I got a job whose description read as though it had been written precisely for my rather quirky background and interests -- at the time I found it gratifying to joke that I was leaving the United States because of George W. Bush. It felt fine to think of myself as someone who was actually going to make good on the standard election-year threat to leave the country. Also, I had spent years of my life feeling like I wasn't a typical American and wishing I could be Canadian. I wanted to live in a country that was not a superpower, a country I believe to have made the right choices about fairness, human rights and the social compact.

So I could certainly identify with the disappointed John Kerry supporters who started fantasizing about moving to Canada after Nov. 2. But after nearly four years as an American in the Great White North, I've learned it's not all beer and doughnuts. If you're thinking about coming to Canada, let me give you some advice: Don't.


Although I enjoy my work and have made good friends here, I've found life as an American expatriate in Canada difficult, frustrating and even painful in ways that have surprised me. As attractive as living here may be in theory, the reality's something else. For me, it's been one of almost daily confrontation with a powerful anti-Americanism that pervades many aspects of life. When I've mentioned this phenomenon to Canadian friends, they've furrowed their brows sympathetically and said, "Yes, Canadian anti-Americanism can be very subtle." My response is, there's nothing subtle about it.

The anti-Americanism I experience generally takes this form: Canadians bring up "the States" or "Americans" to make comparisons or evaluations that mix a kind of smug contempt with a wariness that alternates between the paranoid and the absurd.

Thus, Canadian media discussion of President Bush's upcoming official visit on Tuesday focuses on the snub implied by his not having visited earlier. It's reported that when he does come, he will not speak to a Parliament that's so hostile it can't be trusted to receive him politely. Coverage of a Canadian athlete caught doping devolves into complaints about how Americans always get away with cheating. The "Blame Canada" song from the "South Park" movie is taken as documentary evidence of Americans' real attitudes toward this country. The ongoing U.S. ban on importing Canadian cattle (after a case of mad cow disease was traced to Alberta) is interpreted as a form of political persecution. A six o'clock news show introduces a group of parents and children who are convinced that the reason Canadian textbooks give short shrift to America's failed attempts to invade the Canadian territories in the War of 1812 is to avoid antagonizing the Americans -- who are just waiting for an excuse to give it another try.

My noisy neighbors revel in Canada's two hockey golds at the 2002 Olympics because "We beat the Americans in America!" The first gay couple to wed in Ontario tells the press, before they say anything else, that they are glad they don't live in the United States. A PR person at the hospital where I work, who has been eager to talk to me about a book I've published, puts down her pen when she learns that I'm American and that the book is nearly devoid of "Canadian content."

More seriously, in the wake of 9/11, after the initial shock wore off, it was common to hear some Canadians voice the opinion that Americans had finally gotten what they deserved. The attacks were just deserts for years of interventionist U.S. foreign policy, the increasing inequality between the world's poorest nations and the wealthiest one on earth, and a generalized arrogance. I heard similar views expressed after Nov. 2, when Americans were perceived to have revealed their true selves and thus to "deserve" a second Bush term.

Canadians often use three metaphors to portray their relationship with the United States. They describe Canada as "sleeping with an elephant." Even when the elephant is at rest, they worry that it may suddenly roll over and crush them. They refer to the U.S.-Canadian border as "the longest one-way mirror in the world" -- Canadians peer closely at Americans, trying to make sense of their every move, while the United States sees only its own reflection. Finally, they liken Canada to a gawky teenage girl with a hopeless crush on the handsome and popular boy next door. You know, the one who doesn't even know she exists.

The self-image conveyed in these metaphors is timid and accommodating. Perhaps this is how Canadians see themselves (or would like to be seen), but my experience is that they are extremely aggressive (if somewhat passively so) when it comes to demonstrating their deep ambivalence toward Americans. Take the popular TV show "Talking to Americans," which simultaneously showcases Americans' ignorance about Canada and mocks Canadians' unhealthy preoccupation with what Americans really think of them. Of course, there's often something of the stalker in that gawky teenage girl, isn't there?

Part of what's irksome about Canadian anti-Americanism and the obsession with the United States is that it seems so corrosive to Canada. Any country that defines itself through a negative ("Canada: We're not the United States") is doomed to an endless and repetitive cycle of hand-wringing and angst. For example, Canadians often point to their system of universal health care as the best example of what it means to be Canadian (because the United States doesn't provide it), but this means that any effort to adjust or reform that system (which is not perfect) precipitates a national identity crisis: To wit, instituting co-payments or private MRI clinics will make Canada too much like the United States.

The rush to make comparisons sometimes prevents meaningful examination of the very real problems that Canada faces. (For me, it has become the punch line of a private joke that whenever anything bad happens here, the first response is a chagrined cry of "But we're Canadian!" -- the "not American" can be inferred.) As a Canadian social advocate once told me, when her compatriots look at their own societal problems, they are often satisfied once they can reassure themselves that they're better off than the United States. As long as there's still more homelessness, racism and income inequality to the south, Canadians can continue to rest easy in their moral superiority.

Many Canadians have American relatives or travel frequently to the United States, but a large number are pretty naive about their neighbors to the south. A university student confidently told me that there had been "no dissent" in the United States during the run-up to the Iraq war. Toronto boosters argue that American cities lack the ethnic diversity found in Canada's largest metropolis. The author of a popular book on the differences between the Canadian and American characters (a topic of undying interest here) promotes the view that Americans are all authority-loving conformists.
Ultimately, Canadian anti-Americanism says more about Canada than it does about the United States. Because some 80 to 90 percent of this country's trade is with the United States, the reality is that Canadians need Americans to sustain their economy and thus the quality of life they value. Such dependence breeds resentment. In "officially multicultural Canada," hostility toward Americans is the last socially acceptable expression of bigotry and xenophobia. It would be impossible to say the things about any other nationality that Canadians routinely say -- both publicly and privately -- about Americans. On a human level, it can be rude and hurtful. (As it was on the afternoon of Sept. 11, 2001, when an acquaintance angrily told me that she would now have to curtail her travel plans because she was afraid she might be mistaken for an American.) And there's no way to argue against it. An American who attempts to correct a misconception or express even the mildest approval for the policies of U.S. institutions is likely to be dismissed as thin-skinned or offensive, and as demonstrating those scary nationalistic tendencies that threaten the world.

I felt a strong tug toward America when the borders shut for several hours on the afternoon of 9/11, and again after the election this month. Canadian friends were honestly shocked when I, a caricature of a bluestocking blue-stater (I've spent most of my life in Connecticut, Massachusetts, Maryland and Wisconsin, with short stays in Washington state and the bluest part of Colorado), said that I would in many ways prefer to live in the United States, and not just because it's home. They assume that it's better, more comfortable, to be in a place seemingly more in tune with one's own political and philosophical leanings. Right after the election, many asked me if I would now apply for Canadian citizenship.

I don't intend to do that, because experiencing the anti-Americanism I've described has been instructive: Living here and coping with it has forced me to confront my own feelings about America. And it's helped me discover what I do value about it: its contradictions, its eccentricities, its expansive spirit, all the intensity and opportunity of a deeply flawed, widely inconsistent, but always interesting country. Perhaps I am a typical American, after all.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15638-2004Nov26.html
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
17
38
I dont find any of my posts anti Canadian. Ive asked questions and the answers Ive gotten on the most past support the OP article. Ive also explained my experience and knowledge of Canada are from these boards and friends online. I grew up in Massachussetts and to be quite frank the only thing I remember about politics or nations growing up are from my Authorian books I devoured and Canada was invented yet in those books. None of my friends had an opinion nor my parents nor my parents friends. Im learning a great deal on this site though. Oh yes my eyes are beginning to open.

sorry selfactivated, I was replying to the article that "I think not" posted not anyones replies. I should have been clear about that.
 

Cobalt_Kid

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,760
17
38
"Thus, Canadian media discussion of President Bush's upcoming official visit on Tuesday focuses on the snub implied by his not having visited earlier. It's reported that when he does come, he will not speak to a Parliament that's so hostile it can't be trusted to receive him politely."

As I recall Bush met a great deal of hostility from his own citizens on his inaugeration day in 2001(20,000 angry protestors). He wasn't able to complete the last blocks of the trip on foot as is tradition because of the eggs and rotten fruit that would have pelted him if he'd gotten out of his limo.

Bush is one of the most unpopular Presidents in history. Canadians opposition to Bush can be seen as pro-American in my opinion, when you consider all the damage his administration has done to the U.S.

"Here's a refresher article, to keep the blood and self denial flowing;"

Seems to me, you're the one dealing with self denial issues.
 

selfactivated

Time Out
Apr 11, 2006
4,276
42
48
62
Richmond, Virginia
"Thus, Canadian media discussion of President Bush's upcoming official visit on Tuesday focuses on the snub implied by his not having visited earlier. It's reported that when he does come, he will not speak to a Parliament that's so hostile it can't be trusted to receive him politely."

As I recall Bush met a great deal of hostility from his own citizens on his inaugeration day in 2001(20,000 angry protestors). He wasn't able to complete the last blocks of the trip on foot as is tradition because of the eggs and rotten fruit that would have pelted him if he'd gotten out of his limo.

Bush is one of the most unpopular Presidents in history. Canadians opposition to Bush can be seen as pro-American in my opinion, when you consider all the damage his administration has done to the U.S.

"Here's a refresher article, to keep the blood and self denial flowing;"

Seems to me, you're the one dealing with self denial issues.

lol ITN likes to drop bombs and watch the fireworks, I think that most dont bite as bad as they bark, I think its an exercise in intellect and fencing. I think as usual Im over my head trying to play in their ballfield.


Cobalt_Kid thank you for clarifying that for me (your other post)
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
Here's a refresher article, to keep the blood and self denial flowing;

Before You Flee to Canada, Can We Talk?


By Nora Jacobson
Sunday, November 28, 2004; Page B02

TORONTO

I moved to Canada....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A15638-2004Nov26.html

An interesting viewpoint by a "typical American". I think most Canadians would respect this mostly valid criticism of Canadian anti-Americanism.

Canadians should be more sensitive to the fact that the American government is not the American people and the US is a diverse nation.

But if she thinks anti-American sentiment is unfounded, she should have spent last summer in south Lebanon, while Israel was killing Lebanese civilians with American made bombs. Then she might understand anti-American snetiment better.

[SIZE=+2]Why I Hate America[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+2][SIZE=+2]And Why I'm Not Leaving[/SIZE]

By MICKEY Z.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+3]"W[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]hy do you hate America?" [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]This is a remarkably easy question to provoke. One might, for instance, expose elements of this nation's brutal foreign policy. Ask a single probing question about, say, U.S. complicity in the overthrow of governments in Guatemala, Iran, or Chile and thin-skinned patriots (sic) will come out of the woodwork to defend their country's honor by accusing you of being "anti-American." Of course, this allegation might lead me to ponder how totalitarian a culture this must be to even entertain such a concept, but I'd rather employ the vaunted Arundhati defense. The incomparable Ms. Roy says: "What does the term 'anti-American' mean? Does it mean you are anti-jazz or that you're opposed to freedom of speech? That you don't delight in Toni Morrison or John Updike? That you have a quarrel with giant sequoias?" (I'm a tree hugger remember? I don't argue with sequoias.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]When pressed, I sometimes reply: "I don't hate America. In fact, think it's one of the best countries anyone ever stole." But, after the laughter dies down, I have a confession to make: If by "America" they mean the elected/appointed officials and the corporations that own them, well, I guess I do hate that America-with justification.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Among many reasons, I hate America for the near-extermination and subsequent oppression of its indigenous population. I hate it for its role in the African slave trade and for dropping atomic bombs on civilians. I hate its control of institutions like the United Nations, World Bank, International Monetary Fund, and World Trade Organization. I hate it for propping up brutal dictators like Suharto, Pinochet, Duvalier, Hussein, Marcos, and the Shah of Iran. I hate America for its unconditional support for Israel. I hate its bogus two-party system, its one-size-fits-all culture, and its income gap. I could go on for pages but I'll sum up with this: I hate America for being a hypocritical white supremacist capitalist patriarchy.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]After a paragraph like that, you know what comes next: If you hate America so much, why don't you leave?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Leave America? That would potentially put me on the other end of U.S. foreign policy. No thanks....[/SIZE]

http://www.counterpunch.org/mickey09162006.html
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
darkbeaver said:
It"s a sad fact Gopher, Americans are against this destruction I know it and you know it, but still it's going to happen. It truely is an example of the gutless yellow quizzling journalism more and more traded as wisdom.:wave:


You have a point there -- some of these hatemongers get paid for writing all kinds of worthless bullsh*t and this, undoubtedly, is what motivates them to write such scatological garbage.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
How typical Beaver....more Lotus Eater escapism.

You would rather your "perceived other side" keep quiet and not speak their opinions?

That would advance more harmony and intellectual discussion right?

Let's sweep oppositional thought from our talks and our minds and we won't spoil our day of comfort.

Let's all do a doobie, pour in a brew and let the good times roll......
kewl
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
How typical Beaver....more Lotus Eater escapism.

You would rather your "perceived other side" keep quiet and not speak their opinions?

That would advance more harmony and intellectual discussion right?

Let's sweep oppositional thought from our talks and our minds and we won't spoil our day of comfort.

Let's all do a doobie, pour in a brew and let the good times roll......
kewl


Actually Curiosity I like what ITN and you are doing, pulled out from under the rocks the light of day whithers and burns to dust the mindless hate you spew. I wonder what a bit of grass would do to your poor mind? A truth you could not handle. You seem to have escaped to a mythical state of constant glorious war, and that's a poor miserable place to dwell. May Allah save you from poverty.:wave:
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
this has alway been the most usless unproductive nature of Canada. We watched the U.S. break from the union in the late 1700's while we stayed under the protective wing with Mommy..(England). We watched the U.S. go buy a house..set up get a family create a flag etc etc... while we asked Mommy what we should do....

Of course the U.S. side of the family flurished bought many houses... new cars. trips vacations and the best of things...We sat still and said..we love you Mommy...

Then Mommy said your gettintg older..it's time to go out into the world...

So there we were with not much....as we watch our brother with all...we got green, we got envious....and thats where we are today...Doing the fox and grapes...saying how terrible our older brother is while secretly eyeing his house and car....

We could get that house and car to but we are to busy being green....
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
Ottawabill

If you're suggesting that anti-Americanism is a part of Canadian heritage...I don't think anyone really thinks about the war between Canada and the U.S. when we think about "America". Isn't it more likely that the reason why some Canadians are anti-American is because of what's happening in the world today?

Canada is a much smaller country than the U.S., mismanaged for decades and always prepared (Canadian government) to suck-up to the United States in hopes of mooching a little more...

Canadians can't really blame America for our lousy government, we did that to our selves.
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
Ottawabill

If you're suggesting that anti-Americanism is a part of Canadian heritage...I don't think anyone really thinks about the war between Canada and the U.S. when we think about "America". Isn't it more likely that the reason why some Canadians are anti-American is because of what's happening in the world today?

Canada is a much smaller country than the U.S., mismanaged for decades and always prepared (Canadian government) to suck-up to the United States in hopes of mooching a little more...

Canadians can't really blame America for our lousy government, we did that to our selves.

as much as it's called the Canada/Us war ..it was not... It was the British army against the U.S. with the citizens of Canada and refugee Loyalist Americans caught in the crossfire.. The people of Canada at the time looked to England to protect them..not to each other. The perils of the big bad U.S. have been there for a good long time... Every sice the wars Canada has alway felt threated by the U.S. either thatt they would take us over politically or economically....we have remained fearful, withou\t doing anything about it besides allowing a self fulfillment...

Yes we should only blame ourselves for bad government, lost opportunities etc...but it's easier to blame others.....Just look how Quebec deals with its lot in life..Blame Emglish Canada...No Matter if it has anything to do with it or not...
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
I hear ya Ottawa....

Do you think Canadians would be paying Maher Arar ten million dollars if the United States hadn't shipped him off to Syria?
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Actually Curiosity I like what ITN and you are doing, pulled out from under the rocks the light of day whithers and burns to dust the mindless hate you spew. I wonder what a bit of grass would do to your poor mind? A truth you could not handle. You seem to have escaped to a mythical state of constant glorious war, and that's a poor miserable place to dwell. May Allah save you from poverty.:wave:

Actually Darkbeaver I like what you are trying to do too....

ITN has offered no opinions - he has posted two articles for discussion. I have queried yet again for a thousandth time why Canadians identify themselves as anti-American - who dislike the nation to the south... I have asked specifically what has the U.S. done to Canada?

Mikey at least gave one example - Maher Arar - when he was shipped to Syria....and did the U.S. insist that Canada pay the man money? Or is Canada willing to spend that kind of money to show the world how the U.S. is so "difficult" to live next door to?

Please demonstrate where I have spewed mindless hate in any of my posts here.... I think you are having a great time with your own fanciful wetdreams....getting off on the U.S. Show me one instance when I have been hateful in my posts on this topic....

Your sarcasm regarding war is not lost on me.... I have lost too many to war... have you?
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
Curiosity

Is it unfair or hateful to decry the insanity of the U.S. fomenting another action against Iran?

If it were the British...(whose government I dislike just as much as American government) who had machine-gun patrol boats on the Great Lakes or diverted their water (Garrison Dam project) into Canadian watersheds or it was Britain who chided our nation for not signing onto the Ballistic Missile Defense Initiative...that China has demonstrated as capable of blowing satellites out of the heavens..a chiding that included the smarmy "We'd be there for Canada..."

Lots of reasons Curio...
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
4,612
63
48
I,d like to thank ITN for stimulating the conversation which has been lagging of late.:wave:

Beve

Do you think there's a 'rebound' or 'echo' effect being generated here? Kind of like ...Don't think of Elephants and the mind is immediately flooded with images of elephants...

Just wondering...
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Actually Darkbeaver I like what you are trying to do too....

ITN has offered no opinions - he has posted two articles for discussion. I have queried yet again for a thousandth time why Canadians identify themselves as anti-American - who dislike the nation to the south... I have asked specifically what has the U.S. done to Canada?

Mikey at least gave one example - Maher Arar - when he was shipped to Syria....and did the U.S. insist that Canada pay the man money? Or is Canada willing to spend that kind of money to show the world how the U.S. is so "difficult" to live next door to?

Please demonstrate where I have spewed mindless hate in any of my posts here.... I think you are having a great time with your own fanciful wetdreams....getting off on the U.S. Show me one instance when I have been hateful in my posts on this topic....

Your sarcasm regarding war is not lost on me.... I have lost too many to war... have you?


I think you've been answered a thousand times about Anti-Americanism, you refuse to hear, or you cannot process the information. The imperialism of America is at this time is the greatest danger faced by the planet, already that country has murdered untold millions in pursuit of wealth.
You are not the only human who has suffered and lost loved ones to war, why can't you see that further murder will heal no one.I the promice of America had ever been sincere we would have long ago defeated poverty, disease and war. Quess what, under American leadership these evils have flourished unabated, do you think the world stupid enough to listen any longer. What you do to the planet you do to us. And let me be perfectly clear Canada is quilty as well, Britian is quilty, I am quilty, anyone who's stood by and allowed or helped things get this phucked up is quilty.
The only reason America is the target is because you provide the leadership, that makes you the logical place to concentrate the effort to shut the corporate death machine down.:wave:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tonington

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Beve

Do you think there's a 'rebound' or 'echo' effect being generated here? Kind of like ...Don't think of Elephants and the mind is immediately flooded with images of elephants...

Just wondering...

An observation worthy of consideration, I will retire to the smoke and ponder its ramifications.:laughing7::wave: