The scientific approach

[selfsame]

I have written this thread in the "alternate theory", so that none may object.
I want others to let me complete a few posts, then if they want to object or agree .. no problem.

Many of us see some TV programs: one speaks, supposed to be a scientist, and he asserts: The universe started 6 billion years ago, there was a big bang, and such and such things happened, and an asteroid came and hit the earth, and life appeared in such way, and man and other beings evolved gradually until they reached the present forms of life.

So he speaks about such mysterious and remote incidents as if he is absolutely certain about them! And of course he lies to the public by saying such things and ascribing them to science! He is an atheist and belongs to some organizations and follows some programs.

The correct scientific view:
It is to say: it could be and it might have happened like that, we don't know for certain; it is only one of the present theories.
But to assert some theories as facts: this is not any science, but only cheating of others.

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Science depends on experiments and researches: it grows more and more to reach new scopes, and does not stick to any present data; it may be wrong or need modification; but can never stop and satisfies with what they have discovered; there may be better explanations and more correct information.

Science is good and very good and it is essential for man; but to take some theories as absolute and impose them on the public on the pretext that they are science; this is the wrong, and in fact some atheists and others exploit such defective knowledge for cheating the public and promote their atheistic programs and parties.

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Examples of scientific achievements in the past:
In the time of Ptolemy, scientists thought the earth is the center of the universe and the earth together with the stars of the sky rise in the east and set in the west around the earth.
This at its time, was science, although we now it is wrong.

Another example: a medical drug used to treat patients for ten or twenty years, then they discard it, because they discover it is harmful! So people used it for tens of years, then all of a sudden the science tells them it is harmful!
Of course the science in the past told them the drug was useful to some extent, but then the new science tells them it is harmful.
The same is true for certain vaccines against some diseases. They used some vaccines, then they discard them; so the use of the vaccine is according to science at a time, and the discarding of the vaccine is according to a newer scientific achievement.

There will be one or more posts

 

[CDNBear]

It is more likely than not, to have happened that way, as dictated by the disciplines of science.

As opposed to a blind faith, dictated by a book whose origins are suspect at best.

This argument, yet again, is pointless.

The devout will ignore science, and the educated will mock the devout.

It's Christmas day, can I just get to mocking you now? It would be an awesome Christmas gift.

 

[selfsame]

The example of Bing Bang theory:
It is the outstanding theory now, while most of people view it as absolute: who said the universe started as such; it could be correct, I don't refuse it completely, but one cannot affirm this; there may be and in fact to me: I am certain that it is 99% may not be so correct, because how can man with his limited intellect find how the vast (about limitless) universe started since so billions of years, and how can anyone assert this unless he blinds himself like the people at the time of Ptolemy.

The example of the theory of Evolution:
Most people now assert this theory as an absolute one: how can anyone assert this in any scientific approach? Did anyone see with his own eyes that man evolved from preliminary creatures, and in the same ways other species resulted from preliminary forms? A man at most can say: it could be (while others may say: it is not logical and only imaginary.)

The exploitation of science to promote atheism and blasphemy:
This is so obvious in the example of Evolution, and what propaganda has been made about it until they convinced even many scientific people to accept it as a belief, in spite of the many flaws and defects in this theory.

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Now, I bring you to that which some consider as the thorn in the throat: the Quran.

This is the first soora revealed to the Prophet: the soora 96 in the book of the Quran: which means:

Soora 96

(In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful)​

{1. Recite [O Mohammed] in the name of your Lord Who created [the universe from non-existence.]

2. [Who] created man from the 'larva-like structure' a.

3. Recite [O Mohammed], and your Lord is the Most Generous [more than all the generous.]

4. Who taught [the writing] with the pen [so that heavenly revelations, the religious knowledge and others might be written.]

5. He taught man [some knowledge and some sciences] that he did not know [before that.]}
.....................................................

a Which is the larva of the mosquito, that has been explained in the interpretation of the Quran, the sooras or chapters 22, 23, 75 and also in chapter 40: 67.

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{ 6. [Moreover, man longs to know the forefuture and the metaphysics.]
No, [We shall not teach him that; for then] man will surely rebel a.

7. If he knew [the metaphysics or the forefuture], he would forgo [the religion and the heavenly scriptures and would deny the existence of the Creator.] b

[Then God – be glorified – started to threaten this associater who denied the ‘sending to the Next Life’ and the ‘Judgment’, so He said:]
8. Finally, the return [of the unbeliever c] will be to your Lord d,}
.........................................................

a i.e. will blaspheme and will be arrogant.

b i.e. he would say: I do not need the religion.
It is also narrated that the Prophet – salam to him – said: “Think about creatures, but do not think about the [essence of the] Creator.”
c After his separation from his material body.

d Then We shall punish him for his unbelief, association and denial of the ‘sending to the Next Life’ and denial of the Judgment.

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{[Abu-Jahl used to prevent the praying men from the prayers, and prevent people from believing in the Prophet; therefore, these ayat were revealed concerning him:]
9. Have you considered [what a punishment will be for 'Abu-Jahl'] who forbids

10. The servant [of God] when he prays? a

11. Have you considered [what reward will be for him] if he follows the guidance [of God] b ?

12. Or [what reward will be for him] if he bids piety [rather than forbidding the prayers]?

13. Have you considered, if he disbelieves [in the Quran] and turns away [from the truth, what punishment he will have in the Fire]?

14. Does he not know that God does see [his deeds, for which He will accordingly admit him into Hell]?

15. No, indeed, [he will not be delivered from the Fire]; surely if he refrains not, We shall [let the Fire] strike him on the forelock c.

16. The forelock of a liar [and] sinful [man.]

:
[When Abu Jahl came and spoke to God’s messenger, the Prophet – salam to him – scolded him; so Abu Jahl said: “Do you scold me, Mohammed, while you know how many men are with me!?”
Therefore, His saying – be glorified – was revealed:]

17. So let him call [then] on his counsel [henchmen.]

18. We will call out the stout [angels of punishment to take him.]

19. Nay! d Obey not his [words], but yield [to the command of your Lord], and draw nigh [to God by obeying Him.]}
........................................................

a The meaning: Have you, Mohammed, considered the one who forbids people from the prayers: what punishment will be for him!?

b Instead of following the misguidance.

c And scorch him with its flame.
The fire of the Barzakh (or the Afterlife) is the volcanoes in which he will be chastised; while the fire of Doomsday is the Sun, after which Saqar will be.

d He cannot escape from the 'stout angels of punishment'.

The interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

 

[MHz]

It is more likely than not, to have happened that way, as dictated by the disciplines of science.

As opposed to a blind faith, dictated by a book whose origins are suspect at best.

This argument, yet again, is pointless.

The devout will ignore science, and the educated will mock the devout.

It's Christmas day, can I just get to mocking you now? It would be an awesome Christmas gift.

Since the blow-back for mocking is unpleasant why would you do that to yourself on the day that celebrates when Jesus was conceived?
The Bible is word for word from the day it was 'inspired', one thing sure about any science book is that there will be an update somewhere along the line, several updates in some cases.

Your reply is even more pointless as you couldn't follow the 1st request. Bears rush in where fools fear to enter. (before the proper time, like when the door is opened)

 

[selfsame]

Now, I have completed the main idea of the thread.

 

[MHz]

The example of Bing Bang theory:
It is the outstanding theory now, while most of people view it as absolute: who said the universe started as such; it could be correct, I don't refuse it completely, but one cannot affirm this; there may be and in fact to me: I am certain that it is 99% may not be so correct, because how can man with his limited intellect find how the vast (about limitless) universe started since so billions of years, and how can anyone assert this unless he blinds himself like the people at the time of Ptolemy.

We could be smarter than they were back then but that would mean we would be smarter than the 'sons of God' from Ge:6 were back in the day. That isn't the way the Bible paints things when you consider that Revelations describes their abilities is being what we would consider to be 'supernatural'. Ge:1-3 and Re:20-22 can be used to support the old earth theory which puts the sun shining light on the earth as being 4,000,000,000BC years ago and the exit from the Garden as being 4,000BC. 6 easy steps for us if we apply powers of 10 to the problem. If Noah's time was more advanced than we are then powers of 10 would have been a common theme. could the flood have been 360,000 tears instead of 360 literal days is a question that would have to be explored before you could see if it applies or not.
That would mean from the flood until we can apply that factor then the book would have been a mystery as we take the people back then as being in the stone-age as far as being as advanced as we presently are. The pyramids and other places show somebody was doing some impressive things using higher math functions. We should cover Ge:1 and the flood in more detail so you get a better view of just how the theory goes.

The example of the theory of Evolution:
Most people now assert this theory as an absolute one: how can anyone assert this in any scientific approach? Did anyone see with his own eyes that man evolved from preliminary creatures, and in the same ways other species resulted from preliminary forms? A man at most can say: it could be (while others may say: it is not logical and only imaginary.)

By exploring the old earth theory it would appear that there are 3 species. Air water and land has 3 lines of life developing and adaptation could explain the diversity after they were first introduced on different days of creation. Those 3 lines are never crossed.

The exploitation of science to promote atheism and blasphemy:
This is so obvious in the example of Evolution, and what propaganda has been made about it until they convinced even many scientific people to accept it as a belief, in spite of the many flaws and defects in this theory.

That depends on how accurate the above theories are, if they are more logical than our current beliefs then we are flawed rather than the Bible. (in my case as that is my guide book and the explanations are self-contained if you know where to look. That would be clear after hearing about the old earth theory)

 

[JLM]

It's Christmas day, can I just get to mocking you now? It would be an awesome Christmas gift.

You f**king sh*t disturber!

 

[darkbeaver]

It is more likely than not, to have happened that way, as dictated by the disciplines of science.

As opposed to a blind faith, dictated by a book whose origins are suspect at best.

This argument, yet again, is pointless.

The devout will ignore science, and the educated will mock the devout.

It's Christmas day, can I just get to mocking you now? It would be an awesome Christmas gift.

There is no chance whatever that it happened that way. Which of the four Big Bang theories do you favour, which of the three Black Hole theories ? Both of those modern Scientistic Laws has been disproven scientifically.Scientism is the religion of this century and the last.

Verse 24.35
Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a shining star. (This lamp is) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself) though no fire touched it. Light upon light. Allah guideth unto His light whom He will. And Allah speaketh to mankind in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things.

 

[Jinentonix]

We have seen the universe in it's earliest days. Have you actually, visually seen God with your own eyes?


Science: Man observes the universe and all its wonders. Develops theories, some of which become laws as more experiments, information and observations prove their validity.


Religion: A set of rules written by men, generally along the same vein as the cultural mores of the time when they were written. The laws are then attributed to God, an invisible and as yet unseen divine being whose existence hasn't even come close to being proven, except by idiots who think(pardon the exaggeration) their religious text is all the proof they need.


Now your general claim among the "Big 3" theistic religions is God wrote his words through man. Now, here's your assignment for the week. Without referencing the Koran as your source, prove that it is indeed God's word.

 

[MHz]

Prove that you exist first before asking others to prove things..

 

[lone wolf]

Dunno.... It's sort of like beating on a twelve-year-old because he/she's learned the truth in Santa

 

[MHz]

What do you mean by 'the truth about Santa'?

 

[lone wolf]

What do you mean by 'the truth about Santa'?

Reindeer are decorations. The sled's Hemi powered

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The difference with science is that it corrects itself. Religion does not, and cannot.

 

[selfsame]

Verse 24.35

This is the interpretation of this great aya of the Quran, by the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible, Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly:

Quran 24: 35, which means:
{God is the light a of [guidance for those who are in] the heavens and the earth b.
The likeness of His light [of guidance] is as a niche c wherein is a lamp; the lamp [enclosed] in a glass d,

[Then God – be glorified – explained about the power of that glass in protecting and defending the lamp:]

the glass [with its transparency] as it were a protective [shining] meteor e;
lit f [with oil derived] from a blessed tree: an olive g [tree] that is neither in the East nor in the West h, whose oil i is about to shine, eventhough no fire touches it.
Light upon light j; God guides to His light whom He will k.
And God mentions examples for men [to let them understand], and God has full knowledge of everything l.}
..........................................................

a The ‘light’ means the guidance.

b It means: God is the Guide of those who are in the heavens and the earth; that is by means of the messengers (or apostles) whom He sends to people in order to guide them to the way of the truth.

This is like His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 24: 40, which means:
(And to whomsoever God assigns no light, no light has he.)
It means: Anyone to whom God assigns no guide, there will be none to guide him.

c The word in the aya, translated as ‘niche’: it is a room over the other rooms or over the passage in the middle of the house, or it is by the side of the street. So when a lamp is put in it, the house will be lit, and so people of the house will find their way at night with its light; and if the niche is by the side of the street, then the lamp will give light to the pedestrian so they will find their way with its light.
[The translator – it is like the lighthouse.]

Therefore, this is a parable which God said to people, so He likened Mohammed to be like the lamp, Mecca like the niche and the angels like the glass which protects the lamp from external factors.

Then God – be glorified – explained that He assigned guards to guard the messenger against his enemies out of the genie and the devil:

d Protecting it from external factors; the ‘glass’ implies the angels who surround the prophet and guard him like the glass which protects the lamp. This is indicated by His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 13: 11, which means:
(For him [: the guide], there are pursuing [angels] from before and behind him, who guard [that guide] from the am'r of God);
they guard the prophet from genies and devils.

e The meaning: The glass protects the lamp and averts the external factors from it [like the wind and others]; as does the meteor drive away the devils, and prevent them from ascending up to the heaven. So it is the meteor that inflames at night [in the sky.]

God said in the Quran 37: 6-7, which means:
(We have adorned the nearest heaven [to your earth] with [meteors, like] the adornment of the [other] planets. And that [meteors] may guard against every rebellious devil.)

Therefore, God – be glorified – explained in this aya that He guides people to the way of the truth by means of the messengers (or apostles), and that He sent Mohammed to them to guide them to the way of the truth, according to which they should move, as does the lamp in the niche shed light for them and they walk with its light by night.

Then He explained to them that they cannot kill him, because God assigned for him some angels to guard him from his enemies, as does the glass protect the lamp from the wind so that it will not be quenched.

Then God – be glorified – explained about the source of the revelation which Mohammed receives: that it comes to him from heaven, not from people as do they claim:

f i.e. this light shines and glitters from a tree,

g Which is the olive tree from which God – be glorified – spoke to Moses, the son of Amram. And it is ‘blessed’: because Moses blessed it when God spoke to him out of it, in the Valley of Towa in the Wilderness of Sinai.

h i.e. its site is neither to the east nor to the west of Mecca.
Therefore, the tree here resembles the Islamic nation, who is neither to the West nor to the East.
The meaning: Mohammed brought to you the truth from your Lord, and it is neither according to the desires of Christians who believe in the Trinity, nor according to the desires of Jews who denied both the prophet-hood of the Christ and the prophet-hood of Mohammed.

That is because the countries situated in the east of Mecca were entirely Christians like Abyssinia, Italy and others; while in the west of Mecca, Palestine is situated which was the habitation of Jews.

i The oil is its fruit; because the olive is bitter, which cannot be eaten unless after some procedure done to it, and the product of the olive is the oil.
The fruit of this tree are the believers who believe in the messengers and in the revelation which Gabriel receives from this tree.

The meaning: The believers in Mohammed are about to shed light on the World with the light of their guiding, and to save people from the ignorance with their knowledge and lead them to the way of the truth, with leave of their Lord.

j i.e. the ‘light of God’ upon the ‘light of His angels’ upon the ‘light of His messenger’: i.e. the guidance of God plus the guidance of His angels plus the guidance of His messenger.

k i.e. God guides, to the religion of the Islam and to the teachings of the Quran, anyone who is prepared for guidance, according to his good manners and his kindness to the poor.

l Therefore, He chooses to the apostle-hood, the one who is suitable for the mission and is capable of carrying it out.

 

[coldstream]

You're questioning the accepted Truths of the New Creation Myth Selfsame.. when you call the Big Bang a theory.. It, like its various corollaries (AGW somewhere down the line) must be accepted on the basis of faith.. and require NO experiments or proofs. You'll have to get with the program if you want your doctorate and tenure.

 

[lone wolf]

Accepted truths are subject to question. Absolute ones aren't - and that's where the fun begins.

;-) I dare ya to deny gravity

 

[darkbeaver]

=selfsame;2221632]This is the interpretation of this great aya of the Quran, by the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible, Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly:

It means what it says, God is light. This is the most common fact shared by most of the earths religions. The light is everything and no thing is without its guidance. The Sun is the Hand of God, if you like. Nothing else needs to be said. You turn to it five times a day and pray. Why do you think you do that EA?

 

[selfsame]

The difference with science is that it corrects itself. Religion does not, and cannot.

This is a fallacy.
Science in fact corrects itself: this is what I said: Science can be wrong and can there be afterwards the correction of such mistakes.
But the religion of God is unchangeable; the word of God is the truth which is correct and it cannot be changed or altered in any way.

Quran 6: 115, which means:
{Your Lord's word [of promising you, Mohammed and the believers with victory] has been fulfilled a in truthfulness and justice b.
None can change His words [of promising His messengers with victory c];
He is the All-Hearing [of their words], the All-Knowing [of their acts.]}
...................................................

a By helping the Muslims against the disbelievers; i.e. the victory with which He promised you, has now been fulfilled.
So the 'word' here means the sentence.

b It means: His words are truthful, not disorganized and not changeable; and they are fair including not any injustice.

c It means: none of people can, neither can any party alter the word of God with which He promised His allies and messengers: to give them victory, whatever large may the number of disbelievers be, and whatever small may the number of believers be.

 

[darkbeaver]

God is Gnosis