The scientific approach

[MHz]

The difference with science is that it corrects itself. Religion does not, and cannot.

Religion is supposed to be error free from the start, that certainly is the qualification the Bible is promoting. Would it take much to describe the living conditions that Noah lived in if it covered 360,000 years and the flood included a 450 ft rise in ocean levels above the 5ft the Bible covers in a period of 360 days. If that was one continuous freeze then the climate would be the same except for the start and end. That would seem to favor Israel being naturally wetter to the extent the Jordan was 2km wide and the Dead Sea was a body of fresh water, that would also put the Nile at about 50ft higher and if that is the case there it could also apply to the Mississippi as far as the weather on a global scale goes.

 

[selfsame]

God is Gnosis

God is the All-Knowing or the Omniscient, and He has all the knowledge.

 

[darkbeaver]

The difference with science is that it corrects itself. Religion does not, and cannot.

I would agree with you in one sence only, the modern practice of religion cannot correct itself. In the beginning, religion was science.
It's latin meaning is, binding back to the origin, which was recognized as the Sun. Those earliest religious adherants build great works very hard to confuse with practitioners of magic mumbo jumbo.

 

[MHz]

Accepted truths are subject to question. Absolute ones aren't - and that's where the fun begins.

;-) I dare ya to deny gravity

Would making an anvil lift skyward do the trick for you?? Let me introduce my two assistants, Mr. Gun and Mr. Powder.

 

[JLM]

God is the All-Knowing or the Omniscient, and He has all the knowledge.

We don't KNOW that God is anything before we can determine that he IS!

 

[selfsame]

Religion is supposed to be error free from the start, that certainly is the qualification the Bible is promoting. Would it take much to describe the living conditions that Noah lived in if it covered 360,000 years and the flood included a 450 ft rise in ocean levels above the 5ft the Bible covers in a period of 360 days. If that was one continuous freeze then the climate would be the same except for the start and end. That would seem to favor Israel being naturally wetter to the extent the Jordan was 2km wide and the Dead Sea was a body of fresh water, that would also put the Nile at about 50ft higher and if that is the case there it could also apply to the Mississippi as far as the weather on a global scale goes.

We should take the Bible : the Torah + the Gospel in consideration, but we should be cautious and don't take all of it for certain, on account of the much distortion and alteration that afflicted the Torah and the Gospel, which is so obvious.

Therefore, the mistakes in the Bible will lead man to fall in the enthusiasm contrary to consecrating or dedicating the religion to God alone.
Moreover, such mistakes and alterations led a large number of people to disregard the religion and to fall in the atheism.

 

[darkbeaver]

God is the All-Knowing or the Omniscient, and He has all the knowledge.

Where there is no light there is no knowledge. You will see the light or you will stay here in Egypt for another turn of the wheel. Some like you are stubborn and insist on New Age religions like Islam or Christianity. You will be judged and found wanting and you will be condemned to repeat another cycle in the flesh from a slightly different angle, or you will see the light and accend into that light as reward for your progress through flesh pits. The usage of the word light in all languages contain and carry the truth about God.

Every living thing is a lamp of God.

 

[selfsame]

I would agree with you in one sence only, the modern practice of religion cannot correct itself. In the beginning, religion was science.
It's latin meaning is, binding back to the origin, which was recognized as the Sun. Those earliest religious adherants build great works very hard to confuse with practitioners of magic mumbo jumbo.

You think that the religion was an invention of man, in the past, then it evolved to become as it is now.

Not so, but God the Creator sent His apostle to guide people: from the time of the creation of Adam (and before Him) to guide people to worship Him alone and to be just among themselves and not to transgress on each other and to the rest of the commandments.

Where there is no light there is no knowledge. You will see the light or you will stay here in Egypt for another turn of the wheel. Some like you are stubborn and insist on New Age religions like Islam or Christianity. You will be judged and found wanting and you will be condemned to repeat another cycle in the flesh from a slightly different angle, or you will see the light and accend into that light as reward for your progress through flesh pits. The usage of the word light in all languages contain and carry the truth about God.

Every living thing is a lamp of God.

Did God tell you this in any revealed book, or do you yourself think as such?

 

[darkbeaver]

The Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) was launched June 30, 2001, from Cape Canaveral in an attempt at understanding some unusual telemetry returned by COBE in 1992. Big Bang theory does not account for the areas of anisotropy seen first by COBE because matter and energy should be evenly distributed. The WMAP survey verified COBE's results.

In a previous Picture of the Day, we quoted EU theorist Wal Thornhill:

"If Arp and others are right and the Big Bang is dead, what does the Cosmic Microwave Background signify? The simplest answer, from the highly successful field of plasma cosmology, is that it represents the natural microwave radiation from electric current filaments in interstellar plasma local to the Sun... Instead of the Cosmic Microwave Background, it is the Interstellar Microwave Background. That makes sense of the fact that the CMB is too smooth to account for the lumpiness of galaxies and galactic clusters in the universe."

So, in reality, there is no temperature fluctuation from the earliest days of the universe shining in microwaves down from the heavens. However, the problems with CMB measurements from COBE and WMAP are far greater than we considered in that previous article. Coupled with previous observations by Thornhill and others, the CMBR appears to get most of its energy signature from a rather surprising place: Earth itself.

According to papers recently published by Pierre-Marie Robitaille of Ohio State University's Department of Radiology, many oversights and offhanded errors crept in to the data from WMAP. The team did not fully calibrate the FIRAS spectrophotometer before launch, many possible error sources in the calibration protocol were zeroed out, and no account was taken of thermal emissions from Earth's oceans—which turns out to be the likely source of so-called "cosmic" microwave radiation.

You think that the religion was an invention of man, in the past, then it evolved to become as it is now.

Not so, but God the Creator sent His apostle to guide people: from the time of the creation of Adam (and before Him) to guide people to worship Him alone and to be just among themselves and not to transgress on each other and to the rest of the commandments.



Did God tell you this in any revealed book, or do you yourself think as such?

Both, God the Sun in the first instance before I could walk or talk, and books in the second where I began to look for the works which denied God and supported my budding atheism. There is no milk or honey without the intervention of the Sun and the Bees.

 

[selfsame]

You're questioning the accepted Truths of the New Creation Myth Selfsame.. when you call the Big Bang a theory.. It, like its various corollaries (AGW somewhere down the line) must be accepted on the basis of faith.. and require NO experiments or proofs. You'll have to get with the program if you want your doctorate and tenure.

This is the proving of the 'non-scientific approach', like the people at the time of Ptolemy were glad to know, but they did not know they were wrong.
I don't say such theory is wrong or correct, but the scientific approach demands man to think about probabilities, and how can man - with his limited intellect - grasp the knowledge about the origin of the creation? And when was that, and what had been before that?
This is like a child in the kindergarten and you tell him about the logarithms or the other complicated equations .. his capability is less than he can grasp; in other words: as we sit here in this corner of the universe with out tiny and about trivial capabilities : how can we know things much greater than our scope and level of intelligence .. it can't be.

Quran 17: 85, which means:
{They ask you [Mohammed] about [Gabriel:] the Spirit [of revelation a.]
Say: "[Gabriel] the Spirit [of revelation] is [one] of my Lord's am'r [: or ethereal creatures b.]
And, of the knowledge, you [people] have only been given so little. c "}
.....................................................

a And about his description.

b i.e. say he is one of my Lord’s spiritual creatures, but you do not see them because your seeing is limited, and you don’t know about them, because you are now in a primary school, and you will see them when you will go to the secondary school, i.e. to the Next Life.
So the word Am’r indicates every spiritual creature, and it has been explained in many sites of the Quran interpretation.


c It means: your knowledge about the material things is limited, then how can you know about spiritual beings of whom We have many kinds!?

 

[lone wolf]

Would making an anvil lift skyward do the trick for you?? Let me introduce my two assistants, Mr. Gun and Mr. Powder.

Fast out the gate but not much in stamina....

 

[selfsame]

Both, God the Sun in the first instance before I could walk or talk, and books in the second where I began to look for the works which denied God and supported my budding atheism. There is no milk or honey without the intervention of the Sun and the Bees.

Is your god the sun? Or are you atheist?

 

[lone wolf]

There's only one sun - though it goes by many names

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/sungodsgoddesses/a/070809sungods.htm

 

[selfsame]

There's only one sun - though it goes by many names

List of Sun Gods From Ancient Religions

There are thousands or millions of suns and stars in the universe. But only One God in the entire universe Who created everything.
God is not the sun, the sun is one of His creation like the rest of suns and others.

Quran 13: 2, which means:
{And [God] subjected the sun and the moon h; each [of the sun and the moon] running on [in its orbit i] for an appointed term j }
............................................................

h For your advantages like your calculations, the growing of your plant, the falling down of your rain and a reason for your living; for without the sun there will not be any man living on earth.

i For the sun rotates around its axis, and the moon circles around the earth.

j i.e. to a limited term and a stated time known to Us, when their life will end: the moon will divide into two halves and the sun will attract the moon to it, while the sun life will end and its surface will become cold and it will become an earth, then it will burst by means of the gases which will be imprisoned inside its core, so it will split up and become nineteen pieces which will be attracted to the sun nearest to them, and so they will circle around it and a new solar system will result instead of the present one.

If you like to have more explanation then read the book: The Universe and the Quran, by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

The Universe and the Quran 4

 

[darkbeaver]

Is your god the sun? Or are you atheist?

Verse 24.35
Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth, the universe, the One. God is the One Thing, Light. I am not any longer an atheist.


How that first sentence is subject to interpretation is beyond me. It means exactly what is says.

while the fire of Doomsday is the Sun,

This interpretation is by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly.

 

[damngrumpy]

All the great holy books are not really Holy at all. They are written or re-written and most
are bent to suit the political interests of those involved and formulated as emotional
button pushers for that purpose. None of these books are the works of God either
He didn't write a single word men wrote these words claiming they were Gods words
or inspired by God. Show me a text written by god himself.
The Koran is a book inspired to inflame the passions of followers and it does. It justifies
violence murder rape and slavery in one form or another
The Bible written in original form is a close match for it though.
If Jesus and the others had really been from God they would have condemned and in fact
repudiated the practices of the time instead they justify them.
Christ and the reformers and progressives should have returned in the sixties and led the
freedom movement and we could all be living in Camelot today but alas the prophets
hidden Imams and Christ did not return and we are subjected to these diatribes

 

[lone wolf]

Then someone from any of those thousands or millions of solar systems should be able to provide a duplicate copy of the Qaran

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

 

[darkbeaver]

You will burn in heck RCS.

 

[taxslave]

I have written this thread in the "alternate theory", so that none may object.
I want others to let me complete a few posts, then if they want to object or agree .. no problem.

Many of us see some TV programs: one speaks, supposed to be a scientist, and he asserts: The universe started 6 billion years ago, there was a big bang, and such and such things happened, and an asteroid came and hit the earth, and life appeared in such way, and man and other beings evolved gradually until they reached the present forms of life.

So he speaks about such mysterious and remote incidents as if he is absolutely certain about them! And of course he lies to the public by saying such things and ascribing them to science! He is an atheist and belongs to some organizations and follows some programs.

The correct scientific view:
It is to say: it could be and it might have happened like that, we don't know for certain; it is only one of the present theories.
But to assert some theories as facts: this is not any science, but only cheating of others.

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Science depends on experiments and researches: it grows more and more to reach new scopes, and does not stick to any present data; it may be wrong or need modification; but can never stop and satisfies with what they have discovered; there may be better explanations and more correct information.

Science is good and very good and it is essential for man; but to take some theories as absolute and impose them on the public on the pretext that they are science; this is the wrong, and in fact some atheists and others exploit such defective knowledge for cheating the public and promote their atheistic programs and parties.

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Examples of scientific achievements in the past:
In the time of Ptolemy, scientists thought the earth is the center of the universe and the earth together with the stars of the sky rise in the east and set in the west around the earth.
This at its time, was science, although we now it is wrong.

Another example: a medical drug used to treat patients for ten or twenty years, then they discard it, because they discover it is harmful! So people used it for tens of years, then all of a sudden the science tells them it is harmful!
Of course the science in the past told them the drug was useful to some extent, but then the new science tells them it is harmful.
The same is true for certain vaccines against some diseases. They used some vaccines, then they discard them; so the use of the vaccine is according to science at a time, and the discarding of the vaccine is according to a newer scientific achievement.

There will be one or more posts

DOn't knock it. You have blind faith in a myth perpetrated by sick old men.

God is the All-Knowing or the Omniscient, and He has all the knowledge.

Explaining why you have none.