The Republic of Canada

[darkbeaver]

Canadian Policy: The Jerusalem effect


And our national media have gone AWOL on a number of issues when they are supposed to be their readers' and viewers' watchdogs, especially since Parliament has been prorogued.



First, we learned of the Security Agreement through the Jerusalem Post in 2007. On March 2, 2008, a Declaration of Intent was signed by then Minister of Public Safety Stockwell Day in Tel Aviv. Having a mutual security agreement with a country that grants rights according to religion rather than citizenship is not in accord with Canadian values.
The fact that Israel is an occupier state and uses its army against Palestinians while occupying their land should also raise a red flag as intelligence gathered on Canadian Arabs of Palestinian and Israeli background may be skewed, "shared", and used against them. The implications of such an agreement should be the subject of parliamentary debate and oversight.

 

[Cliffy]

Canadian Policy: The Jerusalem effect


And our national media have gone AWOL on a number of issues when they are supposed to be their readers' and viewers' watchdogs, especially since Parliament has been prorogued.



First, we learned of the Security Agreement through the Jerusalem Post in 2007. On March 2, 2008, a Declaration of Intent was signed by then Minister of Public Safety Stockwell Day in Tel Aviv. Having a mutual security agreement with a country that grants rights according to religion rather than citizenship is not in accord with Canadian values.
The fact that Israel is an occupier state and uses its army against Palestinians while occupying their land should also raise a red flag as intelligence gathered on Canadian Arabs of Palestinian and Israeli background may be skewed, "shared", and used against them. The implications of such an agreement should be the subject of parliamentary debate and oversight.

Yes, well, like that is going to happen. Stockwell Day will do whatever his masters tell him to do.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

There are people in the US and Canada who think a terrorist attack on Israel is a terrrorist attack on the US and Canada. Which could be why many Canadians don't take our strange security laws seriously. Thus. we have a made in USA-Israel security policy, which isn't what we need.

I think we also get too much influence from the UK, another country that contributed to the senseless invasion of Iraq.

 

[darkbeaver]

Me to. Israel is the seat of power by virtue of blackmail and fraud and nukes hidden in capitals. They have sworn to take the planet down if they are not given the keys.
see Golda Mier and others

 

[AnnaG]

I don't see how they could be free from the Banking industry.

How can Canada be free from the grain industry, the lumber industry, or the oil industry? It's private.

Anyway, you people, this is about a Canadian version of republicanism, not Israel.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Hetting back to the main idea of this thread, which is making Canada a republic. I vote for that.

 

[MHz]

How can Canada be free from the grain industry, the lumber industry, or the oil industry? It's private.

Private in that if the Banks want things to go in the direction they want money will be available. If there is a conflict they simple make sure it stays underfunded.
Things can only go two ways, the power should be Industry is subject to the Government and the Government is subject to the People (who pay their salaries). (that would have to include Banks as being an Industry)
The other way is People are subject to the Government who are subject to Industry, including Banks. The flow of money should be from the Gov to the People. That isn't going to be the case, our wages will be tied to what it costs to live a meager lifestyle unless you own lots of stock (which is also manipulated by Industry).

How would you set the prices for grain (total productions costs + single digit profit)? Would that also work for the other two industries?

 

[AnnaG]

Private in that if the Banks want things to go in the direction they want money will be available. If there is a conflict they simple make sure it stays underfunded.
Things can only go two ways, the power should be Industry is subject to the Government and the Government is subject to the People (who pay their salaries). (that would have to include Banks as being an Industry)
The other way is People are subject to the Government who are subject to Industry, including Banks. The flow of money should be from the Gov to the People. That isn't going to be the case, our wages will be tied to what it costs to live a meager lifestyle unless you own lots of stock (which is also manipulated by Industry).

I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but if you are saying the Swiss idea of gov't isn't any good, then I'd have to say pretty much anything else on the planet is worse. As it sits, the Swiss people wield the power, not their politicians, so industries, gov't, or whatever other institution. If the Swiss don't like something, it doesn't get done; period.

How would you set the prices for grain (total productions costs + single digit profit)? Would that also work for the other two industries?

What? I don't understand what you mean by your first question. What single digit profit?
Who sets the price of grain now? Who sets the price of petroleum or lumber? The market does that, except in some circumstances for wheat.

It'd sure help if you weren't as cryptic and/or as vague as the Bible.

 

[countryboy]

Hetting back to the main idea of this thread, which is making Canada a republic. I vote for that.

I have heard some naysayers claim that it would be a MUCH more expensive form of government...I think that came up during a discussion on Senate reform. Not sure exactly how it would be expensive though. Never heard any details...

 

[Cliffy]

We will become a republic when the US formally annexes us. Right now they are allowing us the illusion of an independent democracy because it pleases them.

 

[AnnaG]

It doesn't matter because neither of us has a democracy. We both have democratic (barely) oligarchies.

 

[MHz]

I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but if you are saying the Swiss idea of gov't isn't any good, then I'd have to say pretty much anything else on the planet is worse. As it sits, the Swiss people wield the power, not their politicians, so industries, gov't, or whatever other institution. If the Swiss don't like something, it doesn't get done; period.

What? I don't understand what you mean by your first question. What single digit profit?
Who sets the price of grain now? Who sets the price of petroleum or lumber? The market does that, except in some circumstances for wheat.

It'd sure help if you weren't as cryptic and/or as vague as the Bible.

How about if I go slow, one point at a time so I stay with just one aspect.
Banks have to be sub-servant to the Nation's Government. In the US the Federal Reserve is above the US Government, they are the highest power in the land. All Governments are in debt to the Banks. Without getting past that aspect no change is possible, no matter what form of Government is voted in, it will fail because the Banks control their power to do anything.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but if you are saying the Swiss idea of gov't isn't any good, then I'd have to say pretty much anything else on the planet is worse. As it sits, the Swiss people wield the power, not their politicians, so industries, gov't, or whatever other institution. If the Swiss don't like something, it doesn't get done; period.

That's my idea of real democracy, even if it does make life difficult for special interests to get their way...especially if does that.

The way it sits now we send 308 MPs to Ottawa who in most cases aren't listened to and a very small minority makes all the important decisions while at the same time try to keep us in the dark as far as possible.

 

[countryboy]

So how do the famous Swiss banks fit into their democracy? Or is it the other way around? (How does the democracy fit into the banks?)...

 

[AnnaG]

How about if I go slow, one point at a time so I stay with just one aspect.
Banks have to be sub-servant to the Nation's Government. In the US the Federal Reserve is above the US Government, they are the highest power in the land. All Governments are in debt to the Banks. Without getting past that aspect no change is possible, no matter what form of Government is voted in, it will fail because the Banks control their power to do anything.

So? What does that have to do with what I was talking about? Banking in Switzerland is an industry. I'd hardly think that they run the gov't there when I've already stated that the people of Switzerland are the ones with the power. Can I be any more clear to you?
BTW, I only read at one speed, so I don't care if you type fast or slow.:roll: This time you were pretty clear. You aren't always clear.

 

[AnnaG]

So how do the famous Swiss banks fit into their democracy? Or is it the other way around? (How does the democracy fit into the banks?)...

The banks in Switzerland are just another industry. Regulated by the Swiss gov't which is regulated by the Swiss people. It is a different ballgame there. Here, the gov't is regulated by banks, and the people are regulated by the gov't.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I have heard some naysayers claim that it would be a MUCH more expensive form of government...I think that came up during a discussion on Senate reform. Not sure exactly how it would be expensive though. Never heard any details...

That's a myth, our current system of govt is so cheap "they say". Let's see, we have PEI which ought to be a city/district but is a province with all its costs, a Senate that cost millions and is worthless, ten Lt-Govs across the country-party hacks all, and we pay millions when the royal family visit-said to be so rich. Let's redefine cheap.

 

[FiveParadox]

Offices of the Lieutenant Governors would simply need to be replaced with governors (or some other executive chief of affairs for each province), most probably with a democratic mandate, which would mean assistants, secretaries, pages, chiefs of staff, communications consultants, public relations officers, enhanced security, and et cetera; a fortune compared to the relatively small cost of maintaining provincial vice-regal offices, while giving us the advantage of having representatives of the head of State who are above politics and who, with their reposed constitutional powers, are enough of a deterrent to keep heads of Government on the correct side of the constitutional line.

As to your continued bash-fest on Prince Edward Island, the population is irrelevant to the day-to-day operating costs of Canada, since everything is managed on a per capita basis anyway. The people of Prince Edward Island receive only minor representation in the national legislature. Moreover, through the budgets of its own legislature, it handles its own finances independent of the federal government.

And as for the Honourable the Senate of Canada, our honourable senators are paid much less than members of the House of Commons, even though they perform absolutely invaluable functions that better the legislative process. The purpose of the Upper House is not to make sweeping legislative decisions, but to review the bills passed by the House of Commons and to lend comprehensive review and constructive criticism to our democratically-initiated endeavours. Their allowances are also the minimum needed to complete their functions!

And on that note, with the exception of your comments about vice-regal offices, the matter of Prince Edward Island being a province, and the Senate being unelected, is completely irrelevant to the constitutional monarchy v. republic debate, and it only makes it extremely clear that you’re running out of legitimate reasons to dismiss the monarchy and dump the Canadian way of Government.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

The senate may play an important role, but it still is made up of appointed members, while that may be suitable for the judiciary is it really consistent with a modern democracy.

As I see it we've come to the point where we invariably end up with PMs who see themselves as heads of state without the balancing effect of a seperate elected legislative body. The PM is part of Parliment and can often use that position to circumvent the checks and balances a more broad based democratic system offers.

If we're going to have PMs that act as Presidents then lets bring in the kind of system that will allow a healthy functioning of our government.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Offices of the Lieutenant Governors would simply need to be replaced with governors (or some other executive chief of affairs for each province), most probably with a democratic mandate, which would mean assistants, secretaries, pages, chiefs of staff, communications consultants, public relations officers, enhanced security, and et cetera; a fortune compared to the relatively small cost of maintaining provincial vice-regal offices, while giving us the advantage of having representatives of the head of State who are above politics and who, with their reposed constitutional powers, are enough of a deterrent to keep heads of Government on the correct side of the constitutional line.

As to your continued bash-fest on Prince Edward Island, the population is irrelevant to the day-to-day operating costs of Canada, since everything is managed on a per capita basis anyway. The people of Prince Edward Island receive only minor representation in the national legislature. Moreover, through the budgets of its own legislature, it handles its own finances independent of the federal government.

And as for the Honourable the Senate of Canada, our honourable senators are paid much less than members of the House of Commons, even though they perform absolutely invaluable functions that better the legislative process. The purpose of the Upper House is not to make sweeping legislative decisions, but to review the bills passed by the House of Commons and to lend comprehensive review and constructive criticism to our democratically-initiated endeavours. Their allowances are also the minimum needed to complete their functions!

And on that note, with the exception of your comments about vice-regal offices, the matter of Prince Edward Island being a province, and the Senate being unelected, is completely irrelevant to the constitutional monarchy v. republic debate, and it only makes it extremely clear that you’re running out of legitimate reasons to dismiss the monarchy and dump the Canadian way of Government.

Replacing Lt-Govs and the GG could be expensive as new bureaucracies could be needlessly created. However, in these days of downsizing what the govt could do is simply not fill the position when on Lt-Gov or GG ends his term. If problems arise seem minor then the govt of the day can work on them and if no major issues occur, then the job can be phased out. This could be an example of "rightsizing" for the govt.

PEI is a nuisance, it has corrupt origins, it is smaller than Burnaby, it is time to end this problem. The Senate does no useful work, throw them in the same dung heap with PEI. Ed Broadbent once said the Senate should be turned into a gymnasium, I agree.

The "Canadian way of govt" is open to change as Canadians see fit and if we dump the monarchy, it is still the Canadian way of governing. I bow to no foreign power, ways or govt.