The Power of Hatred

[Ocean Breeze]

I don't think it's so complicated Ocean...

One expects terrorism from terrorists...doesn't make it right...but that's what we've come to expect from their like...

What one does not expect is terrorism from what was once a bastion of freedom and democracy...

That's the part that frosts everyone's melon...hence the outrage...

Well said , Vanni. By complicated ......I meant that there are so many surrounding /auxillary elements to this now. It appears that "terrorism" has been politicized and used for other purposes as well. (by the USG) But you are spot on.

( we are saying the same thing........only I have been more "wordy" about it.. :wink:

 

[jimmoyer]

Once again, we read the perfectly rational reason why there is more passion in the hatred towards America and what it stands for these days.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Re: RE: The Power of Hatred

Once again, we read the perfectly rational reason why there is more passion in the hatred towards America and what it stands for these days.

I find, at least on the canadian side that this "hatred" is more like having your older sibling going through a problem and taking the wrong path.

You want to help and steer them in the right direction that may help more than what they're currently doing.

But your attempts are scorned and thrown in your face, and you want to give him such a smack but he's your older brother, and therefore much bigger than you, and the parents aren't around to intervene if he decides to slap you around instead.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: The Power of Hatred

Once again, we read the perfectly rational reason why there is more passion in the hatred towards America and what it stands for these days.

I find, at least on the canadian side that this "hatred" is more like having your older sibling going through a problem and taking the wrong path.

You want to help and steer them in the right direction that may help more than what they're currently doing.

But your attempts are scorned and thrown in your face, and you want to give him such a smack but he's your older brother, and therefore much bigger than you, and the parents aren't around to intervene if he decides to slap you around instead.

nice analogy. When "big brother" is a bully, and thinks you are insignificant, he won't listen anyhow. So the only choice one has is to be cautious with "big brother" stay clear out of his path....and observe as he goes about "strangling" himself in the mess he created.Otherwise he thinks he is being challenged or provoked. Big Brother takes no advice, suggestion from no one. .........as he is so certain (in his mind) that he is "right" So one is just wasting one's breath. The only way "big brother " will learn will be hopefully through his own serious mistakes......and if not.....will end up in jail./or some protective custody as this would indicate that he is learning disabled. (the signs of learning disabled are there now)

 

[I think not]

You may find that "big brother" is overly aggressive and "little brother" is overly passive. Seems brothers can learn from each other after all.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

You may find that "big brother" is overly aggressive and "little brother" is overly passive. Seems brothers can learn from each other after all.

nice try , but does not wash. Compared to "big brother" the whole world is passive. and these type of glib comparisons don't achieve anything. Would opt for "passive" if that was the only description available anytime. The world has seen what overly aggressiveness has done. (both in attitude and conduct)

(using 'big brother " in the Orwellian sense........not in the family sense....)

 

[Said1]

You may find that "big brother" is overly aggressive and "little brother" is overly passive. Seems brothers can learn from each other after all.

LOL. "He ain't heavy, he's my brother". :naka:

 

[Jo Canadian]

You may find that "big brother" is overly aggressive and "little brother" is overly passive. Seems brothers can learn from each other after all.

Who would be our Counciller if we went to Councilling together? Sveden?

 

[Ocean Breeze]

You may find that "big brother" is overly aggressive and "little brother" is overly passive. Seems brothers can learn from each other after all.

Who would be our Counciller if we went to Councilling together? Sveden?

before any "councelling" can take place or work......both parties must be willing and motivated. :wink:

(important to remember that the US listens to NO ONE--- so the whole point is moot.)

 

[I think not]

You may find that "big brother" is overly aggressive and "little brother" is overly passive. Seems brothers can learn from each other after all.

nice try , but does not wash. Compared to "big brother" the whole world is passive. and these type of glib comparisons don't achieve anything. Would opt for "passive" if that was the only description available anytime. The world has seen what overly aggressiveness has done. (both in attitude and conduct)

(using 'big brother " in the Orwellian sense........not in the family sense....)

It may not wash to you, but it washes well around the world. Canada has a quiet way about itself on the international stage, if you can't see that, then I suppose its working.

 

[I think not]

You may find that "big brother" is overly aggressive and "little brother" is overly passive. Seems brothers can learn from each other after all.

Who would be our Counciller if we went to Councilling together? Sveden?

Britain seems to be middle of the road to me.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

You may find that "big brother" is overly aggressive and "little brother" is overly passive. Seems brothers can learn from each other after all.

nice try , but does not wash. Compared to "big brother" the whole world is passive. and these type of glib comparisons don't achieve anything. Would opt for "passive" if that was the only description available anytime. The world has seen what overly aggressiveness has done. (both in attitude and conduct)

(using 'big brother " in the Orwellian sense........not in the family sense....)

It may not wash to you, but it washes well around the world. Canada has a quiet way about itself on the international stage, if you can't see that, then I suppose its working.

Yes, and hopefully, it will remain that way. Switzerland is understated too, but not "passive" as are many other areas. But I see your point of course. Maybe the larger context is , that we all can learn from each other.......and each other's mistakes. Mistakes cannot afford to be repeated.---and for some insane reason, they seem to be doing just that. Common sense indicated that invading Iraq was a very BAD move. But that did not stop bush. Imagine if one could enter a time machine, and rewind back to well before "Iraq " was mentioned. and make believe that the invasion did not take place. Imagine if the focus on terrorism had remained firm and consistent. Imagine if OBL had not receded from the news in favor of runaway bride or some such nonsense.

........sigh. so much for the fantasy of what might have been.

btw: this evening there is a special on CBC about OBL and some theories of how come he has eluded capture .....

in fact CBC is having some excellent programming now. Analysis ( very good) of the core issue of terrorism, reflections on 3-11 and what has been learned from that disaster. Examining timelines and parrallels.

 

[I think not]

You may find that "big brother" is overly aggressive and "little brother" is overly passive. Seems brothers can learn from each other after all.

nice try , but does not wash. Compared to "big brother" the whole world is passive. and these type of glib comparisons don't achieve anything. Would opt for "passive" if that was the only description available anytime. The world has seen what overly aggressiveness has done. (both in attitude and conduct)

(using 'big brother " in the Orwellian sense........not in the family sense....)

It may not wash to you, but it washes well around the world. Canada has a quiet way about itself on the international stage, if you can't see that, then I suppose its working.

Yes, and hopefully, it will remain that way. Switzerland is understated too, but not "passive" as are many other areas. But I see your point of course. Maybe the larger context is , that we all can learn from each other.......and each other's mistakes. Mistakes cannot afford to be repeated.---and for some insane reason, they seem to be doing just that. Common sense indicated that invading Iraq was a very BAD move. But that did not stop bush. Imagine if one could enter a time machine, and rewind back to well before "Iraq " was mentioned. and make believe that the invasion did not take place. Imagine if the focus on terrorism had remained firm and consistent. Imagine if OBL had not receded from the news in favor of runaway bride or some such nonsense.

........sigh. so much for the fantasy of what might have been.

btw: this evening there is a special on CBC about OBL and some theories of how come he has eluded capture .....

Thats all I was implying, we have much to learn from each other, well I'm off to my my lawn :twisted: . I think next year I will pour concrete over it and paint it green

 

[Ocean Breeze]

You may find that "big brother" is overly aggressive and "little brother" is overly passive. Seems brothers can learn from each other after all.

nice try , but does not wash. Compared to "big brother" the whole world is passive. and these type of glib comparisons don't achieve anything. Would opt for "passive" if that was the only description available anytime. The world has seen what overly aggressiveness has done. (both in attitude and conduct)

(using 'big brother " in the Orwellian sense........not in the family sense....)

It may not wash to you, but it washes well around the world. Canada has a quiet way about itself on the international stage, if you can't see that, then I suppose its working.

Yes, and hopefully, it will remain that way. Switzerland is understated too, but not "passive" as are many other areas. But I see your point of course. Maybe the larger context is , that we all can learn from each other.......and each other's mistakes. Mistakes cannot afford to be repeated.---and for some insane reason, they seem to be doing just that. Common sense indicated that invading Iraq was a very BAD move. But that did not stop bush. Imagine if one could enter a time machine, and rewind back to well before "Iraq " was mentioned. and make believe that the invasion did not take place. Imagine if the focus on terrorism had remained firm and consistent. Imagine if OBL had not receded from the news in favor of runaway bride or some such nonsense.

........sigh. so much for the fantasy of what might have been.

btw: this evening there is a special on CBC about OBL and some theories of how come he has eluded capture .....

Thats all I was implying, we have much to learn from each other, well I'm off to my my lawn :twisted: . I think next year I will pour concrete over it and paint it green

that ITN......is an excellent idea (painting the concrete green and calling it a lawn. Might follow suit :wink: thanks for an excellent discussion.

 

[I think not]

My pleasure Ocean, I enjoyed it also. Hey, maybe leaders can learn something from us simple folk?

 

[moghrabi]

If I made a poll for most hated Country, which nations should I put?

You will only have one choice.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

If I made a poll for most hated Country, which nations should I put?

You will only have one choice.

at the moment the answer would obviously be the USof A.

and I don't think it is for the reasons that many USers delude themselves with..........like: "they hate our freedoms" ( simplistic and dumb) or "they are jealous" ....( of what ???) or that "the US is the "greatest" nation on this planet" (it isn't , but the US flag wavers BELIEVE different)

What might be interesting to explore is when /how did the first Anti Americanism issue begin and how it evolved into "hatred". Exploring this , might also provide the key to the motives behind much of the terrorism now. The new generation of terrorism/ Al Queda has a different methodology, it is being trained in Iraq now, and yet the focus of their rage is the US and anyone who is "friendly " with the US. (either supported by the US .....or supports the US in its current dangerous agenda.) (ref: for this was a documentary on BBC ( Panorama.)....which covered this issue in depth, and the new evolving "Al Queda" groups. and sub groups. These groups have become "decentralized" with little if any communication with each other. They have also adopted "western" clothing /attire in order to blend in more effectively. Anger , and "hate" mobilizes many into the movement. -under the guise of their own "religious" crusade. Many are not uneducated, or the riff raff of society, as some would have one believe.

Interesting , if dangerous times.

 

[moghrabi]

I can tell you my opinion here. The United States of America is hated so much in the ME for its blind support for Israel. Israel breaks every rule in the book and defies every UN resolution and the USG vetoes any UN action against them.

Now when this happens to say Syria or Lebanon or the pals, UN resolutions are put forward and if any other country vetoes it the US acts alone as we saw recently in Iraq. This has been happening since the creation of the state of Israel.

I think the US has a chance to stop all of the horrific conflict by being even-handed or staying out of the affairs of other nations and have the UN impose its rule of law on all nations regardless.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

think the US has a chance to stop all of the horrific conflict by being even-handed or staying out of the affairs of other nations and have the UN impose its rule of law on all nations regardless

agree . So much lies in how the US handles these issues, mishandles them, plays favorites etc Maybe if the US saw itself as part of the world community as opposed to the arrogant "world leader".(and striving for global domination)....the tone would change. Playing fair would be a good start. The US is NOT above the law, (international law) and yet it is acting as if it is. It continues to make up new laws /terminology as it goes along.

 

[I think not]

at the moment the answer would obviously be the USof A.

It has always been the US of A.

and I don't think it is for the reasons that many USers delude themselves with..........like: "they hate our freedoms" ( simplistic and dumb)

That refers to the terrorists and it is true.

or "they are jealous" ....( of what ???)

Most certainly carries weight, because we left countries with thousands of years of history in the dust.

or that "the US is the "greatest" nation on this planet" (it isn't , but the US flag wavers BELIEVE different)

It is certainly one of them. And you will never understand flag waving, you have nothing to wave about.

What might be interesting to explore is when /how did the first Anti Americanism issue begin and how it evolved into "hatred".

It started on July 4th 1776, read a very interesting book, Hating America by Barry and Judith Rubin

Exploring this , might also provide the key to the motives behind much of the terrorism now. The new generation of terrorism/ Al Queda has a different methodology, it is being trained in Iraq now, and yet the focus of their rage is the US and anyone who is "friendly " with the US. (either supported by the US .....or supports the US in its current dangerous agenda.) (ref: for this was a documentary on BBC ( Panorama.)....which covered this issue in depth, and the new evolving "Al Queda" groups. and sub groups. These groups have become "decentralized" with little if any communication with each other. They have also adopted "western" clothing /attire in order to blend in more effectively. Anger , and "hate" mobilizes many into the movement. -under the guise of their own "religious" crusade. Many are not uneducated, or the riff raff of society, as some would have one believe.

Interesting , if dangerous times.

Those being trained in Iraq probably end up blowing themselves up in Iraq and taking a few dozen Iraqis with them everytime.