The Official Canadian Electoral Reform Thread

Which would you choose among the OP's options?

  • 1.

    Votes: 2 28.6%
  • 2.

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • 3.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 4.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 5.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 6.

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • 7.

    Votes: 3 42.9%

  • Total voters
    7

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
61,379
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Flossy's side got battered... he jumped on the Liberal bandwagon after the NDP got dope slapped.
Whatever. Libs, neo-Libs, pseudo-Libs, quasi-Libs. . .

Canada should have many MANY voter referendums on many policies.
They should try that great mode of governance from some of the small towns just a few miles west of y'all, and put all decisions and measures to direct popular vote.

Not sure it'll work for 35 million people scattered over a zillion or two square miles, but hey, rather have them experiment with it than us.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
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Canada's Chief Electoral Officer, Marc Mayrand, says it would cost about $300 million to hold a stand-alone referendum on electoral reform -- a price tag the Liberals will likely reference in the face of non-stop calls for a referendum from the Conservative benches.

Mayrand also said that if the law was changed and a referendum vote was held in conjunction with a federal election, it would cost marginally more.

He told the Commons committee studying electoral reform over the summer that Elections Canada has started to develop a contingency plan in case it needs to gear up for a referendum -- but hasn't gone beyond that.

Electoral Reform Referendum Would Cost $300 Million: Mayrand | The Tyee
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
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Vernon, B.C.
Canada's Chief Electoral Officer, Marc Mayrand, says it would cost about $300 million to hold a stand-alone referendum on electoral reform -- a price tag the Liberals will likely reference in the face of non-stop calls for a referendum from the Conservative benches.

Mayrand also said that if the law was changed and a referendum vote was held in conjunction with a federal election, it would cost marginally more.

He told the Commons committee studying electoral reform over the summer that Elections Canada has started to develop a contingency plan in case it needs to gear up for a referendum -- but hasn't gone beyond that.

Electoral Reform Referendum Would Cost $300 Million: Mayrand | The Tyee


So $15 per Canadian voter! Might be worth it for a better system (not that I believe there's a better voting system).
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
11,548
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CPC MP and ERRE committee member Scott Reid held a presser today to lay out the CPC position on electoral reform : No referendum, no Consent to electoral reform

Mr Reid cites the results of a householder CPC MPs sent to their constituents. Shocker : 90.6% of them voted for a referendum.

Wikipedia

"In Canadian politics, a Ten Percenter is a party political flyer that MPs have the right to mail — at no cost to themselves — to households in their own ridings, equivalent to 10% of the households in their constituency. They may also send the same flier to all of their constituents if they change 50% of the copy."


Complaining that members of the public who show up to ERRE road show meetings are "self-selective" and therefore not representative of Canadians as a whole - a complaint also repeated in committee by ERRE Lib MP Sherry Romanado - Reid calls his survey of 59 Conservative ridings out of a total of 338 possible ridings "the largest sampling of views on this issue to date."

Ok but 30% of ridings surveyed were in Alberta. Nothing "self-selective" there.

The 81,000 votes from across Canada returned to the Conservative office or the local riding MP include up to 4 votes permitted per household. To put that in context, 81K is the same number of voters found in the ridings of Ottawa West or North Vancouver.

In Scott Reid's own riding of Lanark-Frontenac-Kingston with 77,808 voters, 1400 responded to his electoral referendum questionnaire ... which works out to a 1.8% response rate.

So, you know, good effort, Cons

Now Scott Reid has been personally in favour of implementing a proportional electoral system like STV since 2001 and his fellow ERRE member CPC Gerard Deltell also favours PR , but alas their hands are tied by the 2004 CPC founding charter which specifies that any electoral reform must be preceded by a referendum. Apparently their Bill C-23 Fair Elections Act didn't count.

Reid also reported he thinks a five-party committee consensus to proceed with a PR system is possible, that a public referendum on PR would pass, and that Elections Canada CEOs JP Kingsley and Marc Mayrand have said there is time before the next election in 2019 for both a referendum and a new electoral reform system provided the new system is not unduly complicated in the redrawing of ridings.

So why are the CPCs the fly in the electoral reform ointment?

Reid notes that Minister Monsef has not proposed any specific model to replace FPtP or pledged to accept the committee's consensus position, supposing they reach one after this referendum ultimatum.

"Up til now, she has only said she'll take it under advisement so we can move towards that model. What I don't want to have happen is this : have the committee move towards some kind of conclusion and then the government says 'thank you very much, we're doing something else' because we have an ironclad commitment about 2019 and then impose a system that favours the governing party.

That would obviously be completely unacceptable and I am anxious at all costs to make sure that doesn't happen".

The dreaded Alternative Vote, a non-proportional system considered capable of keeping the Libs in power forever because the Libs are everyone's presumed first and/or second choice on a ranked ballot in a single seat riding, is right there in the ERRE committee road show handout and was included in the public e-consultation on the ERRE site.

But after months of sending out householders like the one pictured at the top here - sent out prior to the committee rejig in May which allowed the Bloc and Elizabeth May a seat at the ERRE table and reduced the number of Liberals on committee from a majority of six down to four Libs plus the chair - together with your failure to hold town halls in your communities to inform yourselves and voters about possible alternatives to FPtP, and the fact your official seven page Conservative Caucus submission to ERRE today is about nothing but holding a referendum ... well, Cons, you failed miserably at reaching out further afield than just to your dog-whistled fear-mongered householder base here to achieve that all-party consensus you claim to aspire to.
 

tay

Hall of Fame Member
May 20, 2012
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Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is facing growing calls to confirm his commitment to overhauling Canada's voting system.

After promising electoral reform in last fall's election and launching a comprehensive public consultation process, Trudeau muddied the waters this week in a media interview marking his first year in office.

Asked today if he is backtracking on his promise, Trudeau said he remains "deeply committed" to reforms, but conceded it's a challenge to find consensus among a broad spectrum of public opinion.

He is awaiting recommendations from the special committee of MPs studying electoral reform.

Green Party Leader Elizabeth May urged Trudeau to clarify his commitment to reform the system in time for the next election.

"He has created this level of confusion by suggesting there may not be the same demand for electoral reform. I can assure him there is," she said.

In an interview with Le Devoir this week, Trudeau appeared to be wavering.

Trudeau told the newspaper that Canadians were pushing hard for electoral reform as a way to get rid of a government it did not like — the Conservatives. But now that the Liberals are in office, the "motivation" to change the electoral system is less compelling.

"Fundamentally, it's a crazy argument," said Conservative democratic reform critic Scott Reid. "Stop and think about this: He said one year after the election, I'm super popular so we don't need to have this discussion now."

Reid and fellow members of the special committee studying the issue are now scratching their heads over whether their work is all for nought.

The NDP's democratic reform critic Nathan Cullen accused Trudeau of changing tack for "selfish" reasons.

"Canadians in part elected this government on promises like this, and to very cynically start breaking them just because you have a lot of Facebook followers is pretty arrogant and misguided," he said.

Katelynn Northam of advocacy group Leadnow said there is also much grassroots concern that Trudeau may be backing off the promise. More than 400 members have already made phone calls to Liberal MPs or the Prime Minister's Office, and another 4,000 have sent emails so far.

Campaigns Archive - Leadnow

"Many members of Leadnow voted Liberal in 2015 because of the party's commitment to voting reform — and tens of thousands of people have since joined our Vote Better campaign for proportional representation in the last year," she told CBC News. "It's clear that people do care about voting reform and they expect this promise to be kept."

The Liberal campaign platform, called Real Change, promised to "make every vote count."

"We are committed to ensuring that 2015 will be the last federal election conducted under the first-past-the-post voting system
… Within 18 months of forming government, we will introduce legislation to enact electoral reform," it reads.

Critics accuse Justin Trudeau of electoral reform flip-flop for 'selfish' political gain - Politics - CBC News
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
29,017
8,428
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Prime Minister Justin Trudeau is facing growing calls to confirm his commitment to overhauling Canada's voting system.

After promising electoral reform in last fall's election and launching a comprehensive public consultation process, Trudeau muddied the waters this week in a media interview marking his first year in office.

Asked today if he is backtracking on his promise, Trudeau said he remains "deeply committed" to reforms, but conceded it's a challenge to find consensus among a broad spectrum of public opinion.

He is awaiting recommendations from the special committee of MPs studying electoral reform.

Green Party Leader Elizabeth May urged Trudeau to clarify his commitment to reform the system in time for the next election.

"He has created this level of confusion by suggesting there may not be the same demand for electoral reform. I can assure him there is," she said.

In an interview with Le Devoir this week, Trudeau appeared to be wavering.

Trudeau told the newspaper that Canadians were pushing hard for electoral reform as a way to get rid of a government it did not like — the Conservatives. But now that the Liberals are in office, the "motivation" to change the electoral system is less compelling.

"Fundamentally, it's a crazy argument," said Conservative democratic reform critic Scott Reid. "Stop and think about this: He said one year after the election, I'm super popular so we don't need to have this discussion now."

Reid and fellow members of the special committee studying the issue are now scratching their heads over whether their work is all for nought.

The NDP's democratic reform critic Nathan Cullen accused Trudeau of changing tack for "selfish" reasons.

"Canadians in part elected this government on promises like this, and to very cynically start breaking them just because you have a lot of Facebook followers is pretty arrogant and misguided," he said.

Katelynn Northam of advocacy group Leadnow said there is also much grassroots concern that Trudeau may be backing off the promise. More than 400 members have already made phone calls to Liberal MPs or the Prime Minister's Office, and another 4,000 have sent emails so far.

Campaigns Archive - Leadnow

"Many members of Leadnow voted Liberal in 2015 because of the party's commitment to voting reform — and tens of thousands of people have since joined our Vote Better campaign for proportional representation in the last year," she told CBC News. "It's clear that people do care about voting reform and they expect this promise to be kept."

The Liberal campaign platform, called Real Change, promised to "make every vote count."

"We are committed to ensuring that 2015 will be the last federal election conducted under the first-past-the-post voting system
… Within 18 months of forming government, we will introduce legislation to enact electoral reform," it reads.

Critics accuse Justin Trudeau of electoral reform flip-flop for 'selfish' political gain - Politics - CBC News
Nope why change the system that gave them a majority . Geessh do you think he wants to share the throne with greens and ndp's ?
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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Vancouver Island
Nope why change the system that gave them a majority . Geessh do you think he wants to share the throne with greens and ndp's ?

Wouldn't that just be a disaster in the making.
What we really need is an electoral system that guarantees fiscally irresponsible parties never get custody of the taxpayer's chequebook.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
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Vernon, B.C.
Wouldn't that just be a disaster in the making.
What we really need is an electoral system that guarantees fiscally irresponsible parties never get custody of the taxpayer's chequebook.


The tax payers can do that without changing the system.

Just leave well enough alone!
 

davesmom

Council Member
Oct 11, 2015
2,084
0
36
Southern Ontario
The tax payers can do that without changing the system.

Just leave well enough alone!


Yes they should 'just leave it alone'.


Changes are very bad when they are made for the sake of change and without serious consideration of what those changes will bring about.


Guarantee - IF the electoral system gets changed, it won't be long until the complaints start and more changes will be made. That's the way it goes.
Societies' quests for perfection is ruining the systems we already had which were working as well as any man-made systems can ever work. Nothing in this world will ever be 100% perfect.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
Yes they should 'just leave it alone'.


Changes are very bad when they are made for the sake of change and without serious consideration of what those changes will bring about.


Guarantee - IF the electoral system gets changed, it won't be long until the complaints start and more changes will be made. That's the way it goes.
Societies' quests for perfection is ruining the systems we already had which were working as well as any man-made systems can ever work. Nothing in this world will ever be 100% perfect.


Your wisdom knows no bounds! :)
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
29,017
8,428
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B.C.
Yes they should 'just leave it alone'.


Changes are very bad when they are made for the sake of change and without serious consideration of what those changes will bring about.


Guarantee - IF the electoral system gets changed, it won't be long until the complaints start and more changes will be made. That's the way it goes.
Societies' quests for perfection is ruining the systems we already had which were working as well as any man-made systems can ever work. Nothing in this world will ever be 100% perfect.
They won't be changing a system that gives them so much power . If there had been a minority government with the liberals in third place , then they would still be clamoring for change . Being awarded first place and a majority has a way of changing your tune .
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
548
113
Vernon, B.C.
They won't be changing a system that gives them so much power . If there had been a minority government with the liberals in third place , then they would still be clamoring for change . Being awarded first place and a majority has a way of changing your tune .


Apparently and I believe it's true that voting system selection is beyond the jurisdiction of any political party. (For obvious reasons) :)
 

Remington1

Council Member
Jan 30, 2016
1,469
1
36
It might be the only thing that 's been done in one year, even being a really bad thing!!. Increasing the deficit, 2 new taxes, and cutting family benefits does not qualify as bettering my life. Looks like JT's record might be the worst I've seen.