The Myth of the Good Guy With a Gun

[waldo]

Spackle Sparkle is upset.

why are you so hurtin' to the point you're more than willing to shyte on any thread you choose... to disrespect the CC Forum, it's membership and the effort some members put into attempted meaningful discussion? Is your life so unfulfilled that the only thing keeping you going is this forum and your desire to perpetually drag it down to the depths of your want to... dance petros, dance!

 

[Colpy]

the graph is an isolated 4 years... the article speaks to data over a decade. And you continue to miss the key point made; again, you improperly attempted to equate "gun violence" to the number of gun murders/homicide. Notwithstanding you completely ignore the thrust of the article that speaks to medical advances significantly impacting (as in lowering) gun deaths. Talk about YOUR Cherry Picking!

Now you are being.....disingenuous.

LOOK at the stats I provided.

The number of violent crimes, and the number of aggravated assaults dropped every year since 2001. I was not referencing the murder rate at all.

Your previous post is absolute, unmitigated bullshyte, and I have proven it, by showing their claim of an increase in assaults to be completely bogus. Look again. Ignore the number of murders. Let me spell it out one more time. The number of violent crimes, and the number of aggravated assaults both have dropped every year since 2001. Which completely disproves the claims made in your WSJ post.

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2013

Your current post completely ignores the point I made, and goes galloping off after a straw man.

Try not to earn the scorn that is currently being heaped on you on this thread.

 

[petros]

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I will take solace in the fact you couldn't... can't... substantiate your statement/claim.

Excellent. I imagine your life is such that you need a great deal of solace. Glad I could help.

 

[waldo]

Now you are being.....disingenuous.

LOOK at the stats I provided.

The number of violent crimes, and the number of aggravated assaults dropped every year since 2001. I was not referencing the murder rate at all.

I was speaking to your prior posts where you kept associating gun violence to gun deaths/murders/homicides. That is, as you say... disingenuous.

Your previous post is absolute, unmitigated bullshyte, and I have proven it, by showing their claim of an increase in assaults to be completely bogus. Look again. Ignore the number of murders. Let me spell it out one more time. The number of violent crimes, and the number of aggravated assaults both have dropped every year since 2001. Which completely disproves the claims made in your WSJ post.

United States Crime Rates 1960 - 2013

Your current post completely ignores the point I made, and goes galloping off after a straw man.

notwithstanding the whole underlying theme of your "GUN Activism" is data that presumably ties back to, wait for it, wait for it... GUN VIOLENCE. Your source data doesn't attach any relationship to guns - NONE! My sourced article is fully referenced in terms of data origination and methodology used... and, go figure, my source speaks to the impact of GUNS on death/mortality as offset/reduced by advances in medical care/knowledge... something you have ignored/refused to address. I thought for sure the military angle would have pulled you in... you know, all those battlefield medical advances associated with the Iraq/Afghanistan debacles that have found their way into U.S. urban trauma centers!

notwithstanding, colour me a tad skeptical over a source named "The Disaster Center"; one that provides no direct linkage to it's claimed sourcing... one that provides nothing as to how it created/formed it's data presentation.

Try not to earn the scorn that is currently being heaped on you on this thread.

pffft! Take a look at your own bluster-bus routine so full of holes that it resembles "swiss-cheese".

Excellent. I imagine your life is such that you need a great deal of solace. Glad I could help.

that's weak chief, very weak... even by your low standards! Stay tuned for the next time I ask you to substantiate yet another of your unsupported statements/claims. I trust you won't blow the same gasket next time, hey!

why are you so hurtin' to the point you're more than willing to shyte on any thread you choose... to disrespect the CC Forum, it's membership and the effort some members put into attempted meaningful discussion? Is your life so unfulfilled that the only thing keeping you going is this forum and your desire to perpetually drag it down to the depths of your want to... dance petros, dance!
​

 

[Colpy]

I was speaking to your prior posts where you kept associating gun violence to gun deaths/murders/homicides. That is, as you say... disingenuous.



perhaps you need a mulligan given your apparent difficulty with basic stats... your link title speaks to "rates"... I certainly don't read/see any reference to "RATES". Numbers... aren't rates! What your source presumes to do with "numbers"... isn't rates! Notwithstanding the whole underlying theme of your "GUN Activism" is data that presumably ties back to, wait for it, wait for it... GUN VIOLENCE. Your source data doesn't attach any relationship to guns - NONE! My sourced article is fully referenced in terms of data origination and methodology used... and, go figure, my source speaks to the impact of GUNS on death/mortality as offset/reduced by advances in medical care/knowledge... something you have ignored/refused to address. I thought for sure the military angle would have pulled you in... you know, all those battlefield medical advances associated with the Iraq/Afghanistan debacles that have found their way into U.S. urban trauma centers!

notwithstanding, colour me a tad skeptical over a source named "The Disaster Center"; one that provides no direct linkage to it's claimed sourcing... one that provides nothing as to how it created/formed it's data presentation.



pffft! Take a look at your own bluster-bus routine so full of holes that it resembles "swiss-cheese".



that's weak chief, very weak... even by your low standards! Stay tuned for the next time I ask you to substantiate yet another of your unsupported statements/claims. I trust you won't blow the same gasket next time, hey!

You are a fvcking idiot that fully deserves all the crap dumped upon you, and more.

Dumba$s....when the population goes up, and the number of violent crimes and/or aggravated assault falls, the rates go down.

And in case you have not noticed, attacks with gun or knife are both violent crimes and are aggravated assaults.

In fact, calling you an idiot is an insult to idiots everywhere.

I gave you a chance to redeem yourself, having considered your GW alarmism akin to religious fervour, and therefore impervious to any discussion whatsoever, and that your inability to master the most basic reading comprehension tasks was a result of your blind faith.....

So, I gave you a rational set of arguments on a totally different subject.

Only to find that actually, you are simply an obnoxious troll without a functioning intellect, in short, an imbecile.

Your sourced article is BULLSHYTE, and I have proven it. When you have dealt with this subject as long as I have, you will come to realize....no wait, you haven't the fvcking IQ necessary to realize anything......any normal person would come to the realization that the MSM and anti-gunners lie and cheat stats and manipulate and use any nasty process they can get their grubby little minds around to further their campaign to destroy liberty.

You fit right in.

From now on, spare me your drooling ramblings.

BTW, for those of you capable of reading comprehension and linear thought:

Compiled by the DisasterCenter.com
From: FBI UCS Annual Crime Reports The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program is the starting place for those seeking information on crime in the nation. The UCR is produced from data received from over 18,000 law enforcement agencies voluntarily participating in the program. .

 

[waldo]

You are a fvcking idiot

Dumba$s....

In fact, calling you an idiot is an insult to idiots everywhere.

you are simply an obnoxious troll without a functioning intellect, in short, an imbecile.

no wait, you haven't the fvcking IQ necessary to realize anything......

From now on, spare me your drooling ramblings.

again, you're attempting to use data that has no described relationship to guns... to gun violence. In the face of that, aren't you just a lil' embarrassed by your insult barrage?

 

[DaSleeper]

Colpy.....It took you a while but you came to the same conclusion about this troll that I did back in November :lol:

 

[waldo]

again, you're attempting to use data that has no described relationship to guns... to gun violence. In the face of that, aren't you just a lil' embarrassed by your insult barrage?

Colpy, present appropriate data that actually directly ties/links back to/associates with... your personal gun activism and your focus on GUNS... and GUN VIOLENCE... and you have a starting reference for discussion. Without that you're just blustering... and, of course, insulting.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

He's quoting himself now. That's Stage Four, I believe.

 

[waldo]

He's quoting himself now. That's Stage Four, I believe.

the Tecumsehsbones daily affirmation!

 

[bluebyrd35]

They killed all the injuns?

Not quite, tho they did try hard. Saner heads prevailed in the end. LOL.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Not quite, tho they did try hard. Saner heads prevailed in the end. LOL.

Dafuq?

 

[bluebyrd35]

Look at Colpy's stats and maybe unlike Waldo you have the guts to admit when you're wrong?

No don't look at his results. They come from a pro-gun believer. Go by the shootings you hear or read about. Like the woman with a license to carry a concealed weapon whose 2 year old shot her in Walmart this month after finding the weapon in her purse, or the unarmed man who took down two armed fellows who were confronting an unarmed furious woman after they sideswiped her vehicle with her kids inside. Now that is just this last couple of days.

It takes a lot of training to be able to actually protect yourself and shoot someone. For instance, the cop who allowed a man he stopped for speeding, to leave his vehicle, confront the cop then go back to his vehicle for an AK-47, load it and shoot the cop!! All this while the cop fired his weapon uselessly. Cop was killed and the gunman escaped. All recorded on the cop's camera.

 

[waldo]

2013 UNODC (United Nations Office on Drugs & Crime): Gun related murder rates in the developed (OECD) world --- 2000-to-2012 --- The U.S. has far more gun-related killings than any other developed country:

 

[Cannuck]

No don't look at his results. They come from a pro-gun believer. Go by the shootings you hear or read about. Like the woman with a license to carry a concealed weapon whose 2 year old shot her in Walmart this month after finding the weapon in her purse, or the unarmed man who took down two armed fellows who were confronting an unarmed furious woman after they sideswiped her vehicle with her kids inside. Now that is just this last couple of days.

It takes a lot of training to be able to actually protect yourself and shoot someone. For instance, the cop who allowed a man he stopped for speeding, to leave his vehicle, confront the cop then go back to his vehicle for an AK-47, load it and shoot the cop!! All this while the cop fired his weapon uselessly. Cop was killed and the gunman escaped. All recorded on the cop's camera.

I believe there is far more to the gun violence issue then just availability of weapons. I live in one of the biggest gun loving areas in the country and one of the safest. I will say though, the idea that having a well armed population will make society safer is ludicrous. I remember a few years ago when the guy walked into a mall in Tucson and started shooting. Gun nuts will tell you that an armed citizenry will save lives because people will shoot back. Arizona has some of the most lax gun laws in the country and in Tucson, nobody returned fire. The reality is that without proper training (not to mention experience) people will duck and run for cover before they fight back. People talk the talk but most will not walk the walk.

 

[Colpy]

2013 UNODC (United Nations Office on Drugs & Crime): Gun related murder rates in the developed (OECD) world --- 2000-to-2012 --- The U.S. has far more gun-related killings than any other developed country:

Sure.

If you cherry pick carefully, you can make them look bad.

First you have to restrict the numbers to gun killings.......because those blugeoned to death are not nearly as dead....then....

Why only developed countries? Are you an elitist....or a racist that the poor third world does not count?

Here, do the real comparison:

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let me help you with that, I know you have reading comprehension problems......

The world murder rate in 2012 was 6.2 per 100,000 in 2012.

The US rate was 4.7 per 100,000, 25% less than the world average (oh, and it fell to 4.5 in 2013), which is why the liars and cons for gun control need to cherry pick........

So, let's look at the top ten gun owning countries, without regard to the race or social status of their inhabitants........

You have to go all the way down to no. 7, Iraq, to find one with a worse rate than the world average. Iraq's rate is 8.0 per 100,000. The only other one of the top ten with a rate worse than the average is Uruguay, with a rate of 7.9 per 100,000.

The top ten gun owning countries also include three nations with some of the lowest murder rates on earth:

Switzerland, no. 4 in gun ownership, murder rate 0.6 per 100,000
Saudi Arabia, no 6 in gun ownership, murder rate 0.8 per 100,000
Sweden, no 9 in gunownership, murder rate 0.7 per 100,000

The AVERAGE murder rate among the 10 countries with the highest gun ownership is 3.29 per 100,000.

About one half the world rate.

You'll notice I did not have to cherry pick or invent irrelevant parameters to arrive at that concludion.

Rationalize THAT.

Oh, BTW, I did a quick survey of the next 10 nations with the highest gun owning rates, numbers 11 to 20. Not one had a murder rate of above 2 per 100,000. Not one even had a rate of 2.

In other words, there definitely is a relationship between gun ownership and murder.

More guns, less murder.

Want to check out gun ownership rates in the countries with the most murders??

 

[waldo]

If you cherry pick carefully, you can make them look bad.

Why only developed countries? Are you an elitist....or a racist that the poor third world does not count?

Troll

an OECD country comparison, to you, is "elitist"... "racist"!!! :mrgreen: No, sorry... it's called comparing 'apples to apples'. Clearly, you'd like nothing more than to compare the U.S. gun culture to war-torn and/or 3rd world countries... cause that wouldn't be YOU cherry-picking AT ALL! Tell me, which countries would you like the U.S. compared to... and why... as in how would they be (more) representative than afforded by OECD country comparisons?

you can continue to insult... or you can actually step-up and provide representative data to support the claims behind your freedom luvin' gun fetish. I expect you'll continue to insult as you're already flummoxed and don't know where to turn now that your blustering "expertise" has been exposed for the nonsense it truly is. Carry on... insulting... go with your strengths, hey!

 

[bluebyrd35]

Sure.

If you cherry pick carefully, you can make them look bad.

Why only developed countries? Are you an elitist....or a racist that the poor third world does not count?

Here, do the real comparison:

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let me help you with that, I know you have reading comprehension problems......

The world murder rate in 2012 was 6.2 per 100,000 in 2012.

The US rate was 4.7 per 100,000, 25% less than the world average (oh, and it fell to 4.5 in 2013), which is why the liars and cons for gun control need to cherry pick........

So, let's look at the top ten gun owning countries, without regard to the race or social status of their inhabitants........

You have to go all the way down to no. 7, Iraq, to find one with a worse rate than the world average. Iraq's rate is 8.0 per 100,000. The only other one of the top ten with a rate worse than the average is Uruguay, with a rate of 7.9 per 100,000.

The top ten gun owning countries also include three nations with some of the lowest murder rates on earth:

Switzerland, no. 4 in gun ownership, murder rate 0.6 per 100,000
Saudi Arabia, no 6 in gun ownership, murder rate 0.8 per 100,000
Sweden, no 9 in gunownership, murder rate 0.7 per 100,000

The AVERAGE murder rate among the 10 countries with the highest gun ownership is 3.29 per 100,000.

About one half the world rate.

You'll notice I did not have to cherry pick or invent irrelevant parameters to arrive at that concludion.

Rationalize THAT.

Oh, BTW, I did a quick survey of the next 10 nations with the highest gun owning rates, numbers 11 to 20. Not one had a murder rate of above 2 per 100,000. Not one even had a rate of 2.

In other words, there definitely is a relationship between gun ownership and murder.

More guns, less murder.

Want to check out gun ownership rates in the countries with the most murders??

For goodness sake, there is a reason they are called developed countries. They are supposed to be civilized!! You know, safe streets, like the ones you and I grew up on, unarmed school crossing guards, teenagers with more interest in the opposite sex than shooting up enemy gang members, teachers that are able to teach without being beaten up, girls going to school along side the boys without fear of kidnapping by revolutionaries.

Do we want to remain civilized and "developed" or not?? Refusing to compare civilized standards to those at war, run by terrorists, a dictatorship, an army, poor third world countries is neither racists nor elitist. Anyone would think that this is the type of society you want to live in!!

 

[skookumchuck]

no - members "gang up" because they can... because this forum has little to no effective moderation. Because this forum's moderators would sooner coddle the clubhouseBROs than actually moderate per the forum rules... and send the purposeful shyte-disturbers packing. Apparently, real meaningful discussion is less important than playing to the infantile/insulting posting that permeates this forum.

You are the only one of many hundreds who have complained about the mods. Tell you what, go open your own forum douchebag.