The Hague Asked To investigate the Catholic Church

[DaSleeper]

Does anyone have comparison stats on pedophilia in the Catholic Church in comparison with other Churches or sports organizations?????

I suspect it might be evenly divided percentage wise.....

 

[petros]

Does anyone have comparison stats on pedophilia in the Catholic Church in comparison with other Churches or sports organizations?????

I suspect it might be evenly divided percentage wise.....

Of course it would be equal, percentages of weirdos goes flat across the board regardless of who they worship, where they work or where they live.

 

[karrie]

Does anyone have comparison stats on pedophilia in the Catholic Church in comparison with other Churches or sports organizations?????

I suspect it might be evenly divided percentage wise.....

We've had that conversation multiple times and yes, expressions of pedophilia in the priesthood are stable and reflect the expressions of pedophilia in the general population. That fact still doesn't excuse our church from hiding pedophiles from trial though.

 

[captain morgan]

We've had that conversation multiple times and yes, expressions of pedophilia in the priesthood are stable and reflect the expressions of pedophilia in the general population. That fact still doesn't excuse our church from hiding pedophiles from trial though.

Are you prepared to invoke the same legal actions against all segments of society equally?

Example: If there were (superficial) complaints made against a teacher that resulted in that teacher being transferred, would you suggest that the assets of that school district be confiscated until such time a trial could be completed?

 

[karrie]

Are you prepared to invoke the same legal actions against all segments of society equally?

Example: If there were (superficial) complaints made against a teacher that resulted in that teacher being transferred, would you suggest that the assets of that school district be confiscated until such time a trial could be completed?

If a charge is being pressed, and they transfer them, pay for their flight to another country where they will be free from extradition, etc., then yes, absolutely.

If they have simply recieved a complaint with no intent to press charges, no proof other than he said she said, and they transfer them, it's not nearly the same as what we're talking about with the church. Transferring them out is not in itself impeding a trial.

 

[petros]

You'd seize a school?

 

[karrie]

You'd seize a school?

School board office. But seriously, we need a system in place whereby an institution will suffer financially for aiding, harbouring, or hindering a trial.

 

[captain morgan]

If a charge is being pressed, and they transfer them, pay for their flight to another country where they will be free from extradition, etc., then yes, absolutely.

If they have simply recieved a complaint with no intent to press charges, no proof other than he said she said, and they transfer them, it's not nearly the same as what we're talking about with the church. Transferring them out is not in itself impeding a trial.

Those transfers occur all the time that a serious complaint or many smaller complaints are lodged... And I don't see where the 'out of country' condition applies. As far as the spirit of obstructing the law is concerned, a transfer across town will suffice just as effectively.

And lastly, there are numerous incidences where a teacher has been tried and convicted of inappropriate behaviour, but I have yet to see one single circumstance wherein the school district was stripped of their assets or charged as a co-conspirator.

Make no mistake, pedophiles are the lowest form of humanity and in my opinion, should be locked up in the general population to suffer some jailhouse justice, however, the rules must apply to all, equally, not just the RCC and turning a blind eye to any/all other individuals, organizations, etc. just because they aren't Catholic priests.

 

[karrie]

Those transfers occur all the time that a serious complaint or many smaller complaints are lodged... And I don't see where the 'out of country' condition applies. As far as the spirit of obstructing the law is concerned, a transfer across town will suffice just as effectively.

And lastly, there are numerous incidences where a teacher has been tried and convicted of inappropriate behaviour, but I have yet to see one single circumstance wherein the school district was stripped of their assets or charged as a co-conspirator.

Make no mistake, pedophiles are the lowest form of humanity and in my opinion, should be locked up in the general population to suffer some jailhouse justice, however, the rules must apply to all, equally, not just the RCC and turning a blind eye to any/all other individuals, organizations, etc. just because they aren't Catholic priests.

Transfering someone across town does not hinder a trial or halt an investigation in any way shape or form. You do not need to keep an accuser and a victim together for justice to take place. The implication that you do is odd.

I have yet to hear of a single school transferring a teacher and then refusing to discuss where they were transferred. A single school counseling a student to remain silent during an investigation into their abuse. A single school hiding a teacher accused.

Now, military, RCMP, these are institutions that I've heard of employing similar strategies when one of their own commits a crime. And I'd expect them held to similar account. And needless to say, any school board that ever behaved that way.

 

[petros]

School board office. But seriously, we need a system in place whereby an institution will suffer financially for aiding, harbouring, or hindering a trial.

You own your local school board office not the school board.

 

[karrie]

You own your local school board office not the school board.

So, in short you'd argue that the status quo is fine? That if an organization or institution wants to harbour criminals within its own ranks, wants to impede justice, that they should just be left alone because a housewife doesn't have all the technicalities figured out to your exacting specifications? lol.

 

[captain morgan]

Transfering someone across town does not hinder a trial or halt an investigation in any way shape or form. You do not need to keep an accuser and a victim together for justice to take place. The implication that you do is odd.

Extradition treaties exist, but that is an aside, most of the RCC priests were not transferred out of the country, they were taken to a new parish in a different area of the country (sometimes in a neighbouring community).

The fact remains that it transfers the problem to another place. I would have thought that based on the magnitude of this crime, that any action that did not bring the perpetrator to account would be frowned upon.

I have yet to hear of a single school transferring a teacher and then refusing to discuss where they were transferred. A single school counseling a student to remain silent during an investigation into their abuse. A single school hiding a teacher accused.

Teachers get transferred every day for all kinds of reasons. Don't fool yourself into thinking that is hasn't happened for the reasons that we are discussing.

 

[petros]

So, in short you'd argue that the status quo is fine? That if an organization or institution wants to harbour criminals within its own ranks, wants to impede justice, that they should just be left alone because a housewife doesn't have all the technicalities figured out to your exacting specifications? lol.

How have buildings ever hurt anyone?

 

[karrie]

Teachers get transferred every day for all kinds of reasons. Don't fool yourself into thinking that is hasn't happened for the reasons that we are discussing.

I was fondled by a teacher, he was transferred to go on and rape a student. I'm fully aware of the realities. BUT.... his transfer wouldn't have stopped me pressing charges, it wouldn't have stopped the police investigating, and it wouldn't have stopped a trial, do you understand?

 

[Goober]

So, in short you'd argue that the status quo is fine? That if an organization or institution wants to harbour criminals within its own ranks, wants to impede justice, that they should just be left alone because a housewife doesn't have all the technicalities figured out to your exacting specifications? lol.

Politics, the will of an individual to lay charges, police investigation - how long that takes - Yet those that were complicit in knowingly transferring these freaks as i understand have never done a day in jail.

When charges are laid, normally a civil suit follows and it is not the RCC that foots the bill, it is the local diocese. They are considered separate from the Church. Figure that one out. That is why you see where this has led to large civil suits - settlements - local Dioceses are left on their own to raise funds - selling property - yes even churches - etc.

Yet the Diocese has little authority - The Archbishops - Cardinals and the Pope as the final adjudicator can replace priests, higher level clergy - have property sold - Yet the Diocese is separate when having to pay a settlement for a Priest that was unknowing to them placed in their Church, protected by higher levels of Clergy, commits Child Rape - Yet the Diocese is separate.


Try and unbend the logic on that , until that is changed the same old Freaks will still find protection within the Holy Roman Church. Till all that enabled these freaks are charged, and if guilty go to jail, then you will still find this in the Church 30 years from now.

 

[karrie]

How have buildings ever hurt anyone?

Well speaking from the point of the Catholic church, each and every last parish building is a cost to the congregation. Fundraising efforts, etc. If you start seizing property from a parish, it would get them to voice their opinion, plainly and clearly, to 'the powers that be', about what should be happening with the priests, and hiding them ISN'T what should be happening.

 

[Goober]

Well speaking from the point of the Catholic church, each and every last parish building is a cost to the congregation. Fundraising efforts, etc. If you start seizing property from a parish, it would get them to voice their opinion, plainly and clearly, to 'the powers that be', about what should be happening with the priests, and hiding them ISN'T what should be happening.

Do a bit of searching and you will see how many influential Bishops, Cardinals etc protected these freaks. The Paris was not in the loop. What Paris would accept a child molester. None.

 

[DaSleeper]

I was fondled by a teacher, he was transferred to go on and rape a student. I'm fully aware of the realities. BUT.... his transfer wouldn't have stopped me pressing charges, it wouldn't have stopped the police investigating, and it wouldn't have stopped a trial, do you understand?

All that in your case and in the church was quite common, years ago when things were shoved under the carpet....
I remember a family where there were three girls all sexualy abused by the father and children services did nothing....I married the oldest of those three girls, so I well aware of the problem this causes later in life.

 

[karrie]

Do a bit of searching and you will see how many influential Bishops, Cardinals etc protected these freaks. The Paris was not in the loop. What Paris would accept a child molester. None.

This is what I'm saying, the portion of the institution responsible should be held accountable. if it's the diocese, seize from the diocese, if it's further up, seize from them.

All that in your case and in the church was quite common, years ago when things were shoved under the carpet....
I remember a family where there were three girls all sexualy abused by the father and children services did nothing....I married the oldest of those three girls, so I well aware of the problem this causes later in life.

The thing is, even now, while the issue's being investigated the teacher can end up transferred. It isn't the same anymore as what these priests did. They destroyed records, gave false witness, and in some cases even threatened to excommunicate families if the charges weren't dropped.

 

[Goober]

This is what I'm saying, the portion of the institution responsible should be held accountable. if it's the diocese, seize from the diocese, if it's further up, seize from them.



The thing is, even now, while the issue's being investigated the teacher can end up transferred. It isn't the same anymore as what these priests did. They destroyed records, gave false witness, and in some cases even threatened to excommunicate families if the charges weren't dropped.

The SCOC considers each Diocese separate entities. Figure that one out. BS to me.