The Good side of Harper

SirJosephPorter

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As much as I don't agree with anything political in the west, I don't want to see a sudden migration of easterners out here. BC is already over populated in my opinion. I think we should have at least one province that allows wildlife to have their share of the land base. Humans are just too stupid to appreciate wild places. All they can see is the monetary value of the natural world. BTW, I'm working on a way to arm the wild animals to shoot bipeds on sight.

Cliffy, I don’t see a sudden migration happening. Because of the oil boom (which seems to be fading out anyway), there was some movement of people to Alberta, but it was too insignificant to change the demographics over there.

Besides, we easterners would like to keep the western wilderness pristine pure, why would we want to move there en masse and spoil it?

So have no fear, you are not about to be invaded by the eastern horde. We are quite happy in Ontario and Québec. Sure, there will be some movement of about as is natural, but mass movement? I don’t see that happening.

BTW, I'm working on a way to arm the wild animals to shoot bipeds on sight.

Good luck with that. It wouldn't hurt if once in a while the bear gets the hunter.
 

JLM

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Boy, this thread has shifted a looooooooooong way. When I started it, it was just to acknowledge ONE good thing Harper has done for the people, income splitting on the income tax.
 

Cliffy

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Boy, this thread has shifted a looooooooooong way. When I started it, it was just to acknowledge ONE good thing Harper has done for the people, income splitting on the income tax.

That Harper accomplished at least one thing in his 3 yeras is a big surprise to most people - such a surprise that most missed it.
 

JLM

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That Harper accomplished at least one thing in his 3 yeras is a big surprise to most people - such a surprise that most missed it.

Sometimes you have to give the "Devil" his due, Cliff, albeit in politics I think they are all devils.
 

Cliffy

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Sometimes you have to give the "Devil" his due, Cliff, albeit in politics I think they are all devils.

During a provincial election a while back, an NDP candidate told me I should vote for him as he was the lesser of two evils. I told him I didn't vote for evil in any form.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Boy, this thread has shifted a looooooooooong way. When I started it, it was just to acknowledge ONE good thing Harper has done for the people, income splitting on the income tax.

JLM, you should have known better. When you post a political thread, did you expect all to be sweetness and light? This is how political threads always end up, by a heated, passionate discussion between the differing sides.

Still great fun, though.
 

SirJosephPorter

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During a provincial election a while back, an NDP candidate told me I should vote for him as he was the lesser of two evils. I told him I didn't vote for evil in any form.

Cliffy, if a candidate himself told you that, he was really scraping the bottom of the barrel. What kind of candidate will admit that he is a terrible candidate (just that the other fellow is worse)?

You were right not to vote for him (I assume you didn’t).
 

lone wolf

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Nov 25, 2006
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Hmm... I posted something in here a long time ago about something Harper did that I actually respected ... but it was so many faux pas ago that I'll be danged if I can remember what it was....
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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I'm not a great fan of Trudeau, but I woud still like to question the very standards of judging the performance of a government as presented below:

Pierre Elliot Trudeau

- destroyed the Canadian military

Who was the enemy?Were we ever invaded under Trudeau? Well, there was the FLQ crisis, but as far as I could tell, the Canadian military and police were more than sufficiently equipped to deal with it. We don't spend billions of dollars on the military just to beat our chests on Canada day. Fireworks once a year on 1 July can achieve the same results for much cheaper. Though I have many points to criticise about Trudeau, this is not one of them.

- greatly decreased our influence in the world (see above)

Yeah, Iknow the feeling. Here's what Churchill had to say about it:

"It is alarming and also nauseating to see Mr. Gandhi, a seditious middle temple lawyer, now posing as a fakir of a type well known in the east, striding half-naked up the steps of the viceregal palace, while he is still organizing and conducting a defiant campaign of civil disobedience, to parley on equal terms with the representative of the king-emperor."
- Winston Churchill, 1930

God forbid that we should not be able to dictate policy to other nations.
- started us down the road to massive debt

- gave us martial law, after two kidnappings

Yes, indeed he over-reacted there.

- began the uniquely Canadian habit of rule by OIC....bypassing Parliament, whom he refered to as "those nobodies"

No he didn't begin it. Here's what I found on Wiki:

After the British Empire entered World War I on the Allied side, an Order-in-Council was made in Canada for the registration, and in certain cases for the internment of, aliens of "enemy nationality". Between 1914 and 1920, 8,579 "enemy aliens" were detained in internment camps.

- began the centralization of all power in the PM's office, making the nation an elected five year dictatorship (see above)

Any references? I do know he was excessively centralistic for my taste as far as centralizing power at the federal level is concerned. But in his own ofice? I'd need a reference before I could comment on that.

- repatriated the Constitution as a sop to his own ego...bypassing Quebec (and thus setting in motion subsequent unrest, culminating in the creation of the BQ, the near loss of the country in 1995) and including (at the behest of the Premiers) the "notwithstanding" clause, completely undermining the Charter (as shown by Quebec's use of same)

Now this is a very valid point, and he was big-time wrong on that point.

- took lying in elections to new lows (see the Wage and Price control thing, 1974)

Debatable. He took it low, but he was neither the first nor the last.

- won the distrust of our allies

Our allies, or some of out allies? I'd need a reference for that.

- And that is just to start....I haven't even gotten into the idiocy of the failed policy of nation-wide bilingualism and Nanny-state control

Now as for Official Bilingualism, he was clearly looking at a short-term stop-gap solution to the political problem he was facing in Quebec. Again, nothing unique to him, and the blame for thi falls on every parliament since that has not repealed it and, most importantly, on the Canadian electorate that has supported it, likewise satisfying itself with Official Bilingualism as a short-term stop-gap partial solution to a deeper problem, the root of the problem being ignored. Official Bilingualism is possibly the darkest point of his leadership.
 

Machjo

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The man was dangerous.....he killed Canada as we knew it.

Colpy, really? Then how did he keep winning election after election? Even now he is very popular in Ontario and Quebec (As least he was according to the last poll I saw, which was a while ago).

You may not like him, and no doubt he had many faults. However, in my opinion, his repatriation of constitution and giving us the Charter trumps it all.

Remember Trudeau-Mania? The guy had charisma, so alot of young ladies who really shouldn't be allowed to vote voted to see more of him on the news.
 

Cannuck

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Sorry China, but I have already declared a victory over you, I have nothing further to say to you.

I suggest you join Sir Joseph Porter fan club, of which Cannuck is a charter member. My fan club follows me everywhere, like a poodle, hangs on to my every word and posts a response. Cannuck has been doing that until now, I suggest you join him.

It is quite flattering really to know that I am that important, I make such a difference to peoples’ lives, that they hang on to my every word and post a response to it.

So welcome to the SJP fan club. You are the second member. I expect to see you in my entourage, along with Cannuck. From now on for my every post, I expect to see a response from you, along with one by Cannuck. Don’t’ expect a response from me, of course.

Incidentally, it may interest you to know that in canada.com forum, there was a SRM (SirRupertMargartroyd) fan club. I think it had 4 or 5 members. It is really flattering to know that I am that important.

Wow!! I also took you for a self-important blowhard but even this comedy routine took me by surprise. Here's a tip for you sunshine. When you post on a public forum, don't be surprised when people respond to you. That is, after all, what this is all for...and when you post really silly things, you should expect even more responses. It adds to the entertainment value.
 

JLM

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To all you Trudeau lovers/supporters- he ran the country $400 billion into debt- just tell me two things- 1. HOw much debt would be an acceptable amount? 2. Who else would you stand for running up that much debt?
 

Machjo

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To all you Trudeau lovers/supporters- he ran the country $400 billion into debt- just tell me two things- 1. HOw much debt would be an acceptable amount? 2. Who else would you stand for running up that much debt?

Another male politician with good looks, charisma, or some other quality that can get the cute vote among certain young ladies who really shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Or alternatively, a sexy-legged female politician getting the horny votes from all the young lads who really shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Both of them are significant demographics. Some will vote for a beautiful or handsome politician to have a brainless good face to represent the country.

Trudeau was charismatic, so he got the ladies' vote.
 

JLM

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"Trudeau was charismatic, so he got the ladies' vote. "- I think "charisma" back east is a little different there than what it is to the "rough and tumble" types here in B.C. What's thought of as "charisma" back there is thought of as "full of sh*t" out here and we can spot it.
 
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SirJosephPorter

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Both of them are significant demographics. Some will vote for a beautiful or handsome politician to have a brainless good face to represent the country.

Machjo, don’t forget old white male horny redneck vote. That is the demographics that Joan of Arc (Sarah Palin) appealed to.

As I have said before all is fair in politics, love and war. If a candidate has charisma, I don’t’’ see anything wrong with that. After all you cannot sell your policies; no matter how good they are, if you have a charisma of a wet fish.

So sure, Trudeau had charisma. However, his policies also appealed to the younger generation, especially his stance of getting the government out of peoples’ bedroom, his support of minority rights, women’s rights etc.

You sell younger generation short if you think they voted for him simply because of his charisma and good looks. It was charisma, good looks and policies.
 

Machjo

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"Trudeau was charismatic, so he got the ladies' vote. "- I think "charisma" back east is a little different there than what it is to the "rough and tumble" types here in B.C. What's thought of as "charisma" back there is thought of as "full of sh*t" out here and we can spot it.

Hey, not all voters are like that. Look at Sarah Palin. Don't tell me not one man voted for her because of some fantasy in his mind. Now I wouldn't vote for a politician, no matter how sexy she was, unless she had character. I'd vote for the ugliest old fart i he had character. But not all voters are like that. As for Trudeau, I can't see much in him that way. Then again, I'm a heterosexual man. But I'd met one old woman who'd voted for Trudeau in her day because she thought he had charisma. So if there was one, I'm sure there were others. And she should nto ahve been voting either.
 

SirJosephPorter

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To all you Trudeau lovers/supporters- he ran the country $400 billion into debt- just tell me two things- 1. HOw much debt would be an acceptable amount? 2. Who else would you stand for running up that much debt?

JLM, Mulroney, apparently (at least many conservatives don’t seem to have much of a problem with Mulroney, they have problem with Trudeau).

Anyway, you have got your facts wrong. That 400 billion $ figure was probably told you by a Mulroney supporter.

Taxes and Families in Canada and Elsewhere

When Trudeau left office, debt was around 200 billion $. Mulroney doubled it to 400 billion $. So get your facts right before you throw out the numbers and smear Liberal politicians when they don’t deserve it.

I know you well enough to know that you wouldn’t lie deliberately (though there are some here who would). You probably were misinformed by somebody.

Anyway, coming back to Trudeau, he won’t be remembered for his economic performance. No PM is remembered for his economic performance, unless he brings about something akin to Great Depression (Hoover).

So his economic performance, while miserable, will be forgotten in due course. What won’t be forgotten is his repatriation of constitution and giving Canada the Charter. For that Canada (and especially the minorities) will forever remember him kindly.