The Death of a Toy Soldier

[s_lone]

Let him speak. It is important that he does.

I'm not trying to censor him. I just don't want him to get banned uselessly because he is new to this (forum discussions).

Catholics, well, that's popular so you get loud about that one. You clearly have a lot of hate inside. Too bad. You'd seemed interesting.

We were raised Catholics. And I witnessed my father telling my brother that his soul was in peril for not going to mass on a Sunday.

Imagine the issue it caused when my brother came out. There's no sense in bringing out our family affairs in here, but I need to point out that our criticism of Catholicism has nothing to do with it being easy and popular. It has everything to do with our personal experience of it.

 

[patty_lone]

can people here just realize taht we don't really know each other....not enough to pass any judgements....

karrie...i am not backing away...i am just willing to discuss....and relate to what people say about me...

i really don't mind what you think of me as an artist....

i still think what i did was great...i I will be doing it again....who cares.....i am such a small ant in such a big world....

but go see my art prints if you really care ...Patrick (Patrick Lonergan) | MySpace
my main thing is visual arts.....poster art.....

 

[karrie]

I'm not trying to censor him. I just don't want him to get banned uselessly because he is new to this (forum discussions).



We were raised Catholics. And I witnessed my father telling my brother that his soul was in peril for not going to mass on a Sunday.

Imagine the issue it caused when my brother came out. There's no sense in bringing out our family affairs in here, but I need to point out that our criticism of Catholicism has nothing to do with it being easy and popular. It has everything to do with our personal experience of it.

My family is Catholic, and they fight within the Church to end that kind of bull. I've had numerous gay relatives who were embraced and loved exactly the same despite the fact that the family at large attends mass. I've also had a gay friend come out to their atheist family and be beaten and shunned.

But if you want to cling to institutions and the people in them being responsible for the actions of your dad, have fun. it doesn't make you any less a bigot though.

...not enough to pass any judgements....

Yet you profess to hate me. Interesting.

 

[patty_lone]

It's fine KArrie.....I'm a bigot and i love you.....i am now an atheist and i don't need religion anymore....

 

[s_lone]

My family is Catholic, and they fight within the Church to end that kind of bull. I've had numerous gay relatives who were embraced and loved exactly the same despite the fact that the family at large attends mass. I've also had a gay friend come out to their atheist family and be beaten and shunned.

But if you want to cling to institutions and the people in them being responsible for the actions of your dad, have fun. it doesn't make you any less a bigot though.

I'm a bigot for criticizing the Church's position on homosexuality?

 

[karrie]

I'm a bigot for criticizing the Church's position on homosexuality?

No s_lone, I was talking about your brother, pardoned the mixed terms.

But, to declare hatred for such a large group of people most of whom you've never met and who don't all hold the view you think they do... that's bigotted.

It's fine KArrie.....I'm a bigot and i love you.....i am now an atheist and i don't need religion anymore....

I am a Catholic, so no, you do not love me patty... in fact you have clearly, loudly, stated quite the opposite.

 

[patty_lone]

ok so hate is a big word.....i admit their are cool christians and hurray.....i wish their were more.....i don't hate you because i hate the church.....

i am not a fan of any spiritual group...

.....maybe i am not being too clear....but don't take it so personal....you were one the few who thought actually gave me constructive arguments...

 

[s_lone]

No s_lone, I was talking about your brother, pardoned the mixed terms.

But, to declare hatred for such a large group of people most of whom you've never met and who don't all hold the view you think they do... that's bigotted.

OK... sorry about the misunderstanding... This discussion IS getting a bit chaotic...

Patty, from what I know of Karrie, she really isn't the typical Catholic you imagine and she is very open minded... I think she has a point that you should be careful not to put all Catholics in the same basket.

 

[patty_lone]

i doesn't mean that i wouldn't help you if you were in deep trouble....

i don't think i can handle these forums...because i am such an emotional person....i write quickly and without thinking too much....

if you saw me and heard me....you'd see that i am not full of hatred...there is a lot of love in me too....and bucket lods of laughter....

i don't want to offend anyone here....

it was my brother's idea to post my video on here.....

i know some catholic people and we get along fine....we discuss and challenge ourselves...

.but these virtual discussions.....man o man o man...

it's like when your a couple and you are fighting on MSN......it's the worst thing in the world....

 

[karrie]

OK... sorry about the misunderstanding... This discussion IS getting a bit chaotic...

Patty, from what I know of Karrie, she really isn't the typical Catholic you imagine and she is very open minded... I think she has a point that you should be careful not to put all Catholics in the same basket.

I spent the weekend two weeks ago reconnecting with my aunt, 'Sister Marie Claire'. Next week I will attend my uncle's mass near Edmonton. I have a lot of family who are in the church, or who 'are' the church, and very few of them as individuals are what anyone with a papal vciew of the church would expect. I've drank beer and played horseshoes with a priest who attended our 'pagan' ceremony for one of my deceased aunts. I've seen a priest take the pulpit and rain hellfire down while preaching about gays.... because he felt the dogma of our church is taken too rigidly and that no Christian has a right to denigrate another human being who hasn't harmed someone else. Very little of MY experience in the church has been 'typical' and it's not just me that's the odd one out. Might I point out gerry, one of the other prolific Catholic posters on here.

As Bear, I believe it was, was pointing out.... attempting to tackle bigotry means that you are open to criticism of your own bigotry. Throwing images of child abuse at the church repeatedly means you're attempting to label a lot of good men who haven't abused children, with that same crime. That's right up there with accusing all gays of being pedophiles because some gay men are into young boys.

 

[patty_lone]

my brother is the rational one here....( me emotional)....so i will be leaving canadian content for him....

karrie you are very lucky to have had a very postive catholic experience....

 

[karrie]

i doesn't mean that i wouldn't help you if you were in deep trouble....

i don't think i can handle these forums...because i am such an emotional person....i write quickly and without thinking too much....

if you saw me and heard me....you'd see that i am not full of hatred...there is a lot of love in me too....and bucket lods of laughter....

i don't want to offend anyone here....

it was my brother's idea to post my video on here.....

i know some catholic people and we get along fine....we discuss and challenge ourselves...

.but these virtual discussions.....man o man o man...

it's like when your a couple and you are fighting on MSN......it's the worst thing in the world....

So stop, slow down, and absorb the message for a minute. reflect on it, and consider how people use their emotional reactions to elicit a response, a reaction, or a thought in you. This forum is no less theatre than what you do on the street. People will throw out incendiary messages when they want to effect reaction, or a calm soothing word when they want to bring their reader back down.

my brother is the rational one here....( me emotional)....so i will be leaving canadian content for him....

karrie you are very lucky to have had a very postive catholic experience....

Not all positive patty.... but humanity is like that. It is rarely made up of all good or all bad. Rarely can you tell what people will be like based on one characteristic.

 

[lone wolf]

...but these virtual discussions.....man o man o man...

it's like when your a couple and you are fighting on MSN......it's the worst thing in the world....

Been there.... Gets really interesting when you're sorting out pee'd-off spelling, emoticons and MSNese too - while the wordfire is coming in fast and furious.

Mime and political statement.... In so many ways, that's living dangerously

 

[patty_lone]

please check out my visual art karrie.....that's where i communicate properly....not here....

hahaha lone wolf....thanks....you made me laugh...

 

[karrie]

please check out my visual art karrie.....that's where i communicate properly....not here....

I've looked at your art patty. and I think you communicate just fine on here. emotional and reactive is not unique on this forum. lol.

 

[patty_lone]

ok karrie.....i'll just.....relaxe...take it in....and choose my words more carefully.....after all...this is my first forum.......

you guys have devirginized me!

 

[karrie]

well that will please bear and eagle I'm sure (the imagery your last line evokes that is)... lol.

 

[patty_lone]

hahaha....

you know karrie...my catholic performance....(let's call it that).....maybe does generalize....but you see taht kind of thing all the time on TV.....i don't have any example's right now that come to mind....

but think of shows like the simpsons....family guy or south park....

why can they get away with that....

i have a really dark sense of humour....I enjoy shocking.....I like to make people laugh under their bellies.....in french we call that " le rire jaune"

your laughing but you don'y quite no why....because you may not be supposed to.....

that ...I Love.....and i think that goes for Toy Soldier as well....

i think of me as avisual artist.....but when i perform.....i think of me much more of a clown.....or a mime....

but not an easy one...i don't just climb walls with my hands....

not everyone has to laugh or think it's funny...their are all sorts of audiences out there.....

but i am far from being a serious person........

i did the cathiloc performance....twice......and the second time i saw that face on two guys....

that yellow laugh ...they were having a ball....

and that made me feel great....

is that such a terrible thing...

 

[EagleSmack]

But I use art to express my anger EagleSmack......so it's perfectly sane.....it's therapeutic for me....

To each his own.

Because i was raised in the church...it becomes a very personal matter for me....

Very well.

but i can assure you that there are gay muslims fighting for their rights in "hanging countries".

I can assure you that they don't. They are forced under ground. Perhaps in a place like Europe or elsewhere they might but in countries where homosexuality is a crime punishable by death they are either dead or silent.

As the President of Iran said...

"There are no gays in Iran...that is an American phenomena."

..and man do they kick ass.....

Again, they don't.

but you know what it is their country, not mine.....it may be a lousy excuse.....

There are no mosques in Canada? Of course there are? Are they preaching tolerance and acceptance of homosexuals? Of course they aren't.

but you can be sure that if Harper started to hang gays here i would be on the streets right now......right this instance.....but we've dealt with these issues.....

That is tough talk but if Canada started executing homosexuals I doubt that you would be fighting. You have already expressed your desire to be safe and not get shot. What has changed?

I don't want any country to hang or stone or kill gays.....but i think countries and their people should have the maturity to figure these things out by themselves.

Sadly they don't. Sadly you don't have the maturity to know that your art is just as offensive to soldiers and Catholics as someone calling you the "F" word that ends in "T".

AM I afraid.....yeah...so what....i fear aggression...big deal......

That's why I said you wouldn't stand up if Canada started executing homosexuals.

but I wish that people who didn't ...like the army....would step up for gays in other countries......because that is their duty ....to save people from violence........

Are you talking about host armies?

i'm just a 26 year old local artist here who doesn't have that much power...

it's fine if you don't like what i do.....it's fine if you think i'm not original.....

I don't and you aren't original.

and you can dislike me too....

it's an opinion....i've had others.....plenty of bad...plenty of good.....mock me.....i can laugh about myself....

I have no real reason to dislike you nor will I mock you. I may critique your art, but I have no reason to mock or dislike you as a person. I think you need to mature a little bit though. I surely won't mock your orientation. If you become a real big jerk I may get down to it though! Thats how we roll around here.

can you?

Sure, I crack myslef up all the time.

 

[patty_lone]

I f Canada did...I would.....trust me....

but i never once said I was an activist.....i think of myself more as an entertainer when i perform...

wherther you think it's funny that's your business....

if a show like southpark can get away it's humour.....so can I....

I think this is what people have been missing out on...... I AM NOT AN ACTIVIST.....the video may make it seem this way.....but i am a performer....

i got paid for doing that....so i'm like a *****.....i use my body....