The Death of a Toy Soldier

[CDNBear]

My brother mostly does visual media. Performance art is occasional for him.

Here's a link where you can see some of what he does. A lot of his works tackle the theme of gender issues and what you could call sexual politics and all the sub-themes that this implies (gay rights, sexual stereotypes, HIV awareness, addiction, top-bottom sex issues). If he can cause some people to reflect upon those themes, that's a good enough contribution to society in my book.

I actually agree with doing that. Breaking down the barriers of stereotypes and such.

I get that.

So why exactly would he incorporate stereotypes into his piece on Soldiers?

Seems surprisingly hypocritical to me.

Patrick Lonergan

What a wonderfully Irish name. And yet he displays nothing of the Irish stereotypes, lol.

And I like some of his art btw.

 

[EagleSmack]

I actually agree with doing that. Breaking down the barriers of stereotypes and such.

I get that.

So why exactly would he incorporate stereotypes into his piece on Soldiers?

Seems surprisingly hypocritical to me.
.

Now that is a great point.

Why would he mock soldiers on one hand and fight other forms of bigotry on the other?

 

[Ron in Regina]

I don't find it offending at all. But I understand how one could. And I find some comments here rather interesting. For example, Ron mentioned my brother probably would have got a beating had he done this in Moose Jaw.

What does this say about Moose Jaw? That it's a violent place?

Moose Jaw has a large population of retired Prairie Farmers, many
of those Seniors having served in the Forces, or are Spouses of those
that have served, or currently have children or grandchildren serving, &
is the home of 15 Wing...

That's where my comment was coming from. In the town I live in, I can see
the issue being with the Local Law Enforcement and not the Senior Citizens.

(I think Moose Jaw missed out on the '60's & maybe the '70's too)

 

[s_lone]

I actually agree with doing that. Breaking down the barriers of stereotypes and such.

I get that.

So why exactly would he incorporate stereotypes into his piece on Soldiers?

Seems surprisingly hypocritical to me.
What a wonderfully Irish name. And yet he displays nothing of the Irish stereotypes, lol.

Yup, our father's bloodline goes straight to Ireland, and that explains why I'm an English speaker as well as a French speaker (and there lies the ambivalence about separatism.) My name is Sean by the way... is that Irish enough for you?

The only thing Irish about us is our fondness of drinking with good buddies.

To get back to the subject at hand, I think you're on to something about him using army stereotypes. But then again, the clowny aspect of it pretty much counteracted that.

 

[CDNBear]

Yup, our father's bloodline goes straight to Ireland, and that explains why I'm an English speaker as well as a French speaker (and there lies the ambivalence about separatism.) My name is Sean by the way... is that Irish enough for you?

Damn skippy bra.

The only thing Irish about us is our fondness of drinking with good buddies.

If I we ever hook up, the first rounds on me.

To get back to the subject at hand, I think you're on to something about him using army stereotypes. But then again, the clowny aspect of it pretty much counteracted that.

Not really, I think it accentuated the attempted slight.

I'd bet his feelings about Soldiers, are about the same as my feelings about his performance art, non?

While it's true, Soldiers live a very regimented life. We are tought to be independent, self reliant, quick thinking and able to act in both a unit, as well as singularly.

So for someone, whom I bet hates stereotypes, to use a stereotype to draw attention to something I'll bet he finds as abhorrent, as some fundamental religious types find homosexuality, seems a tad hypocritically ostentatious.

 

[s_lone]

I think an important thing is being forgotten here.

The puppet soldier implies that there is a puppeteer. And the puppeteer is the government. Government uses the army as a tool to further what it considers to be a Canadian national interest. But we all know government often ends up serving its own interest, to the detriment of the population... and the soldiers when we are dealing with questionable wars.

I cannot speak for my brother, but one thing is sure, it would never come to his mind to mock the sacrifices of world war 2. And I see a problem when any satirical look at the army automatically becomes an insult to the honour of those who did fight bravely and honourably for good causes.

Good causes imply that there are also bad causes. Or at least questionable ones.

While it's true, Soldiers live a very regimented life. We are tought to be independent, self reliant, quick thinking and able to act in both a unit, as well as singularly.

So for someone, whom I bet hates stereotypes, to use a stereotype to draw attention to something I'll bet he finds as abhorrent, as some fundamental religious types find homosexuality, seems a tad hypocritically ostentatious.

It is hypocritical to fight stereotypes while feeding others. I can't argue with that. But as I mention in my post above, I think his portrayal of the army must be viewed in the context of who is actually controlling the army.

 

[CDNBear]

I think an important thing is being forgotten here.

The puppet soldier implies that there is a puppeteer. And the puppeteer is the government. Government uses the army as a tool to further what it considers to be a Canadian national interest. But we all know government often ends up serving its own interest, to the detriment of the population... and the soldiers when we are dealing with questionable wars.

Ok, I can see that, now that you've brought it up.

But to be portrayed as a 'puppet', is still insulting.

I'm sure your brother would find me or my opinion as insulting, if I dressed in drag, oh hell, just showed up as a big old Bear (I'm sure you're both aware of the Bear community)and attempted to portray the gay and lesbian community as... less then capable parents? Promiscuous? Drug addicts? Bound for hell?

I cannot speak for my brother, but one thing is sure, it would never come to his mind to mock the sacrifices of world war 2. And I see a problem when any satirical look at the army automatically becomes an insult to the honour of those who did fight bravely and honourably for good causes.

I noticed you used the word "did".

The ladies and gentlemen currently involved, are just as important.

Good causes imply that there are also bad causes. Or at least questionable ones.

I actually agree.

 

[s_lone]

Ok, I can see that, now that you've brought it up.

But to be portrayed as a 'puppet', is still insulting.

I'm sure your brother would find me or my opinion as insulting, if I dressed in drag, oh hell, just showed up as a big old Bear (I'm sure you're both aware of the Bear community)and attempted to portray the gay and lesbian community as... less then capable parents? Promiscuous? Drug addicts? Bound for hell?

Yes that would probably make him angry.

I noticed you used the word "did".

The ladies and gentlemen currently involved, are just as important.

When writing ''did'', I mostly had Ron's comment about Moose Jaw's seniors who served. What I'm saying is that, criticism of the army does not necessarily concern all those who serve or have served in the army.

When we criticize politicians by calling them liars and thieves as we often do, does that mean we think all former and current politicians are liars and thieves? Does that mean we think politics cannot be honourable?

As I already said in the thread about desertion, I am very critical of the Irak war. I am much, much, more ambiguous about Afghanistan. But that is my opinion, not my brother's.

 

[EagleSmack]

To get back to the subject at hand, I think you're on to something about him using army stereotypes. But then again, the clowny aspect of it pretty much counteracted that.

I think it insulted them more to be portrayed as a goofy puppet. Not saying your Bro is goofy but the antics were goofy, mindless, wide eyes, goose stepping and mocking. That is how he portrayed soldiers.

 

[s_lone]

I think it insulted them more to be portrayed as a goofy puppet. Not saying your Bro is goofy but the antics were goofy, mindless, wide eyes, goose stepping and mocking. That is how he portrayed soldiers.

Can you imagine any right way to criticize soldiers?

 

[CDNBear]

Yes that would probably make him angry.

Hmhm, I figured as much.

When writing ''did'', I mostly had Ron's comment about Moose Jaw's seniors who served. What I'm saying is that, criticism of the army does not necessarily concern all those who serve or have served in the army.

Gotchya.

When we criticize politicians by calling them liars and thieves as we often do, does that mean we think all former and current politicians are liars and thieves?

If I say it? Yes, actually.

Does that mean we think politics cannot be honourable?

Are you sure you know who you're talking too? lol

As I already said in the thread about desertion, I am very critical of the Irak war. I am much, much, more ambiguous about Afghanistan.

I'm ok with that.

I want you to know something. Yes, I am a great big brute, and when I use the term neanderthal to describe myself, I do because I recognize the fact that I am instinctual and reactionary. It takes a fair amount of strength for me to reason with the fact that I fully believe and support free speech and expression, and your brother has every right to perform his acts, un-accosted.

It takes a lot to put yourself on display, it takes an even greater amount of strength to put something on display that came from within.

I actually understand that better, now that I have put art and jewelry in a local shop, for sale. Albeit, that pales in comparison to the depth that your brother is digging, into himself, but it helps me understand his strength. And I actually admire him for it.

 

[s_lone]

I want you to know something. Yes, I am a great big brute, and when I use the term neanderthal to describe myself, I do because I recognize the fact that I am instinctual and reactionary. It takes a fair amount of strength for me to reason with the fact that I fully believe and support free speech and expression, and your brother has every right to perform his acts, un-accosted.

It takes a lot to put yourself on display, it takes an even greater amount of strength to put something on display that came from within.

I actually understand that better, now that I have put art and jewelry in a local shop, for sale. Albeit, that pales in comparison to the depth that your brother is digging, into himself, but it helps me understand his strength. And I actually admire him for it.

If you're a brute, you're one of the noblest ones I've encountered.

And beyond thinking that there is a brute in everyone of us, I still do not think of you as a brute.

In another performance of my brother, I was dressed as a priest with a mask and he was kneeling down in front of me dressed in a childish way (my brother)... I gave him communion for about 10 minutes in a sensual matter... caressing his face, his body... The criticism was blatant. One would have to be totally ignorant about the news to not know this was about the pedophilia scandals in the Catholic Chuch.

In another ''performance'', my brother gave a speech on AIDS, focusing on how the virus died as soon as it came into air contact. The point of his speech was to explain how there is really no danger of contracting the virus from someone who is HIV positive by normal common day contact (hugging, touching, etc.). He then invited everyone to eat ''HIV cookies'' he had baked as a symbolic gesture of support for all those who do have the virus. The cookies were shaped as an HIV virus. He was thanked by many seropositive people after that one...

I hope this gives you an idea about what he's trying to do. He is goofy, he wouldn't deny that, but he can also be serious.

 

[Goober]

Can you imagine any right way to criticize soldiers?

Why is it the Soldiers - Why not the Policy of the Govt - Portray that policy - It is not like a Unit in Canada or Brigade suddenly decides they are going to war now is it???

 

[CDNBear]

If you're a brute, you're one of the noblest ones I've encountered.

And beyond thinking that there is a brute in everyone of us, I still do not think of you as a brute.

Thank you.

In another performance of my brother, I was dressed as a priest with a mask and he was kneeling down in front of me dressed in a childish way (my brother)... I gave him communion for about 10 minutes in a sensual matter... caressing his face, his body... The criticism was blatant. One would have to be totally ignorant about the news to not know this was about the pedophilia scandals in the Catholic Chuch.

That brought a smile to my face. Yes I know, I'm a hypocrite.

Which brings me to the old saying, you have to take the good with the bad, lol.

In another ''performance'', my brother gave a speech on AIDS, focusing on how the virus died as soon as it came into air contact. The point of his speech was to explain how there is really no danger of contracting the virus from someone who is HIV positive by normal common day contact (hugging, touching, etc.). He then invited everyone to eat ''HIV cookies'' he had baked as a symbolic gesture of support for all those who do have the virus. The cookies were shaped as an HIV virus. He was thanked by many seropositive people after that one...

That makes me think. I am already well aware of the communicability of the AIDS virus. But I can well imagine the misinformation some people stil believe. And I feel compelled to think about those deeply affected by that.

Seems some of your brothers works aren't as vacant and puerile as I thought.

I hope this gives you an idea about what he's trying to do. He is goofy, he wouldn't deny that, but he can also be serious.

I would think that as a performance artist, his message was serious. Which is why, I believe he should have the right to perform, no matter my feelings.

 

[Goober]

If you're a brute, you're one of the noblest ones I've encountered.

And beyond thinking that there is a brute in everyone of us, I still do not think of you as a brute.

In another performance of my brother, I was dressed as a priest with a mask and he was kneeling down in front of me dressed in a childish way (my brother)... I gave him communion for about 10 minutes in a sensual matter... caressing his face, his body... The criticism was blatant. One would have to be totally ignorant about the news to not know this was about the pedophilia scandals in the Catholic Chuch.

In another ''performance'', my brother gave a speech on AIDS, focusing on how the virus died as soon as it came into air contact. The point of his speech was to explain how there is really no danger of contracting the virus from someone who is HIV positive by normal common day contact (hugging, touching, etc.). He then invited everyone to eat ''HIV cookies'' he had baked as a symbolic gesture of support for all those who do have the virus. The cookies were shaped as an HIV virus. He was thanked by many seropositive people after that one...

I hope this gives you an idea about what he's trying to do. He is goofy, he wouldn't deny that, but he can also be serious.

Art like music can soothe a person or create a confrontation/conflict within yourself when interpreting an event such as your brothers performances can do - As they are meant to do.

 

[s_lone]

Why is it the Soldiers - Why not the Policy of the Govt - Portray that policy - It is not like a Unit in Canada or Brigade suddenly decides they are going to war now is it???

IF the policy is bad (I insist on the ''if''), are the soldiers immune to criticism? Ultimately, they are the ones applying the policy right?

I understand the soldiers are just doing their jobs. And it's a dangerous job. But I also believe that a soldier ought to believe in what he or she is fighting for. And if I view a given war policy as bad, then I don't totally exempt soldiers from my criticism of the bad policy. Because by acting upon their orders, they are pretty much supporting the policy. That does not mean I am insensitive to the often tragic and horrible things they have to deal with.

Reality is complex, and I think it is possible to support soldiers and criticize them at the same time.

But in the end it's true. The Units and Brigades don't really decide when and where they will be going to war. And you can be sure the bigshots in government taking the decisions when it comes to the army are not the ones encouraging their children to join the army...

 

[Goober]

IF the policy is bad (I insist on the ''if''), are the soldiers immune to criticism? Ultimately, they are the ones applying the policy right?

I understand the soldiers are just doing their jobs. And it's a dangerous job. But I also believe that a soldier ought to believe in what he or she is fighting for. And if I view a given war policy as bad, then I don't totally exempt soldiers from my criticism of the bad policy. Because by acting upon their orders, they are pretty much supporting the policy. That does not mean I am insensitive to the often tragic and horrible things they have to deal with.

Reality is complex, and I think it is possible to support soldiers and criticize them at the same time.

But in the end it's true. The Units and Brigades don't really decide when and where they will be going to war. And you can be sure the bigshots in government taking the decisions when it comes to the army are not the ones encouraging their children to join the army...

Point - Soldiers join for a varity of reasons and as some have posted it is not for any joy in killing - Sometimes in this new world we have of more intervention than Peace keeping - a Soldier will ebd up going to a place that he does not believe in going to. But thye go

When a Unit recieves a warning Order - All requests for release are denied - all requests for retirement are denied - You are now under a Warning Order to prepare for deployment and you will deploy - Barring ilneess, family problems etc - Yes you can refuse and go to Jail - But i would not consider that an option.

 

[EagleSmack]

Can you imagine any right way to criticize soldiers?

If his intent WAS to critisize soldiers then he scored a homerun. If it was to send another message somewhere then he failed.

In another performance of my brother, I was dressed as a priest with a mask and he was kneeling down in front of me dressed in a childish way (my brother)... I gave him communion for about 10 minutes in a sensual matter... caressing his face, his body... The criticism was blatant. One would have to be totally ignorant about the news to not know this was about the pedophilia scandals in the Catholic Chuch.

.

Why doesn't that surprise me? Bigots do stuff like this and yell BIGOTS!

Wanna be brave? Real Bold? Pull that stuff in front of a Mosque. Dress like Mohammad and protest the slaughter of gays by Islam. Now that would be bold...that would be art. I'd PAY you guys to do that! I would really pay to witness that art.

Playing priest and little boy...hardly original. ACT-UP has been doing that for years. Only they substitute the communion waffer with condoms. What you are doing is no more than remake of other people's art. Paint by Numbers art... Dogs Playing Cards art. Catholics are easy targets, they will walk by and shake their heads. Maybe some will even pray for you.

 

[s_lone]

Wanna be brave? Real Bold? Pull that stuff in front of a Mosque. Dress like Mohammad and protest the slaughter of gays by Islam. Now that would be bold...that would be art. I'd PAY you guys to do that! I would really pay to witness that art.

That would be amazing art indeed. But also amazingly suicidal. And you sound a tad sadist suggesting you'd enjoy watching an artist trying to pull that off.

Playing priest and little boy...hardly original. ACT-UP has been doing that for years. Only they substitute the communion waffer with condoms. What you are doing is no more than remake of other people's art. Paint by Numbers art... Dogs Playing Cards art. Catholics are easy targets, they will walk by and shake their heads. Maybe some will even pray for you.

We were both raised as catholics and catholicism, even though it's dying a slow death is still the majority religion of Quebec, our province. Sometimes it makes more sense to tackle issues that hit home.

You seem to insinuate that the value of this type of art should be judged according to the level of danger the artist subjects himself or herself to.

 

[EagleSmack]

That would be amazing art indeed. But also amazingly suicidal. And you sound a tad sadist suggesting you'd enjoy watching an artist trying to pull that off.

Oh, so you only will hit soft targets? You will only offend those that will not harm you and not offend those who truly do harm gays.

You get an "A" for honesty I will give you that.

We were both raised as catholics and catholicism, even though it's dying a slow death is still the majority religion of Quebec, our province. Sometimes it makes more sense to tackle issues that hit home.

You may be right about that. On the other hand Islam is growing and where does that leave people who are gay?

You seem to insinuate that the value of this type of art should be judged according to the level of danger the artist subjects himself or herself to.

I am saying that art should be bold and brave...art should be original. This anti-Catholic art is old stuff. It's been done all over the world.

Like I said, you and your brother were doing "Paint by Numbers" art. Nothing original. The same with the OP clip. "Die ins" have been a favorite of the anti-war crowd since Vietnam. The fake blood, quasi uniform...that's not original. You portray rebellion yet you march to the same beat as thousands of others before you.

You should be bold and stand up to those who mean real harm to gays and lesbians all over the world. Dress like Mohammad and have your bro kneel and do silly things. NOW THAT would be art! THAT would be bold. THAT would be original and you would be noticed.