The Crimean referendum?

[B00Mer]

The USA and Europe need to mind their own business, especially THE USA!!!

What happen in Crimea sorta reminds me of Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Granada and other countries the USA has invaded... for the USA to be crying foul crys hypocrisy.

This is a region that is made up of primarily Russian nationals.. who through a democratic referendum want to split and join Russia.

It would be like Quebec splitting from Canada and joining France or Alberta splitting and joining the USA.. if a majority of the people living there want it... and vote for it... who I'm I to begrudge their desires.

 

[lone wolf]

What I find selectively blind is that those wing nuts Mocking Obama about the sanctions against Russia yet...... harper is harping the same tune .... what? no comment about that?

Harper's mouthing out of his league. He needs to bottle toke a stiff vodka....

 

[MHz]

..... or Alberta splitting and joining the USA..

I thought the idea of that sort of move was to improve your life?

 

[B00Mer]

I thought the idea of that sort of move was to improve your life?

Which it would... if you ever lived in the USA, you would see that.

I was going to say, "Why would a Canadian want to move to the States", but then I saw you were from Alberta.

 

[MHz]

You must be referencing last century.

 

[Machjo]

Every Stan in the former USSR sat up and took notice on the reasoning used in Crimea.
How long before they start looking for security guarantees.
And as the are loaded with gas reserves, pipelines to the EU. What is Russia left with.
Russia over the next 10 years loses.
Their economy is broken. The oil/gas revenues keep it going.
Their manufacturing base is outdated and is in desperate need of investment and technology - where from - the west- the same applies to their oil/gas tech. Out of date.

But sanctions must have a way out. What? Russia will give Crimea back against the will of its people? Call a referendum to go back to Ukraine?

For this reason probably no economic sancions, but definitely NATO will add new members all around Russia's border. Then there's the issue of ethnic Russians in other countries rioting to go to Russia? It could be a mess all around.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

What I find selectively blind is that those wing nuts Mocking Obama about the sanctions against Russia yet...... harper is harping the same tune .... what? no comment about that?

It's pretty amusing seeing the American and Canadian right-wingers on here show their true colours. They hate Obama so much they support Putin.

 

[Machjo]

It's pretty amusing seeing the American and Canadian right-wingers on here show their true colours. They hate Obama so much they support Putin.

I'm hardly a 'right-winger' nor 'left-winger', and I don't support Putin entirely. He was still wrong to invade. But there is still no denying Crimea was part of Russia since the 18th century except since Kruschev.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I'm hardly a 'right-winger' nor 'left-winger', and I don't support Putin entirely. He was still wrong to invade. But there is still no denying Crimea was part of Russia since the 18th century except since Kruschev.

No, I don't consider you a winger. Your support of Putin is based on analysis of the rights and wrongs of the situation in Crimea, not on blind Obama hatred.

But how would your logic apply to South Sudan?

 

[Machjo]

No, I don't consider you a winger. Your support of Putin is based on analysis of the rights and wrongs of the situation in Crimea, not on blind Obama hatred.

But how would your logic apply to South Sudan?

Good question. I haven't given South Sudan much thought lately, possibly because of the lack of media coverage. Maybe the media should cover it more?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Good question. I haven't given South Sudan much thought lately, possibly because of the lack of media coverage. Maybe the media should cover it more?

Feel free to open a media outlet (it's really cheap these days) and do so.

 

[Machjo]

Well, South Sudan did vote as a majority to separate if that's what you mean?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Well, South Sudan did vote as a majority to separate if that's what you mean?

What's the criterion? Majority vote of the people or traditional/historical ties? Or balancing the two? Or are there other factors?

 

[Machjo]

What's the criterion? Majority vote of the people or traditional/historical ties? Or balancing the two? Or are there other factors?

I don't have all the answers, sorry. It is a complicated matter. I do think respect for international law is an important factor to ensure we all go by the same rules. On that front Russia was wrong to invade.

 

[B00Mer]

It's pretty amusing seeing the American and Canadian right-wingers on here show their true colours. They hate Obama so much they support Putin.

It's not really an Obama Putin thing here.. they had a referendum and the people voted..

Maybe you're such an Obamabot you blindly would follow Osama, even if it caused the collapse of the US Dollar and economy.

As I said before, Obama is a brilliant politician just a lousy leader... he should do as George W. Bush did, surround himself with leaders.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I don't have all the answers, sorry. It is a complicated matter. I do think respect for international law is an important factor to ensure we all go by the same rules. On that front Russia was wrong to invade.

I'm interested in pursuing this. I'm not attacking you, and I don't expect you to have all the answers. Sorry if I came off that way.

Let's play with it.

Scenario 1: The majority of a fictional province. . . oh, let's call it Kay-beck, purely fictional of course, wants independence from their country, let's call it Kanata. History/tradition has it as part of Kanata since Kanata's founding. What prevails, the will of the people or the history/tradition?

Variation a: Kay-Beck wants not only to secede, but to join a neighbouring country, let's call it the ASU (again, purely fictional). Are Kanata's sovereignty/national security issues a factor to be considered?

Variation b: What if Kay-Beck wants to join with a geographically remote country that has a similar culture and language, and that country (let's call it the purely fictional Terre-de-Francks), in a fit of temporary insanity, agrees?

Scenario 2: The U.S. Civil War. Was Lincoln wrong to hold the South by force?

Scenario 3: Another purely fictional people, let's call them the Curds for their love of cottage cheese, are split among four or five bordering countries. They want to separate the majority-Curdish portions of each of these countries and form a new state, Curdistan.

 

[El Barto]

Scenario 1: The majority of a fictional province. . . oh, let's call it Kay-beck, purely fictional of course, wants independence from their country, let's call it Kanata. History/tradition has it as part of Kanata since Kanata's founding. What prevails, the will of the people or the history/tradition?


I would go with the consenting majority of the people should prevail. IMO


Actually , it would be the same answer to all

 

[B00Mer]

Scenario 1: The majority of a fictional province. . . oh, let's call it Kay-beck, purely fictional of course, wants independence from their country, let's call it Kanata. History/tradition has it as part of Kanata since Kanata's founding. What prevails, the will of the people or the history/tradition?


I would go with the consenting majority of the people should prevail. IMO


Actually , it would be the same answer to all

Great from Quebec... please leave Canada and take Quebec with you.. maybe you can join Russia.

 

[El Barto]

Great from Quebec... please leave Canada and take Quebec with you.. maybe you can join Russia.

You poor emotional fool there is no majority to do so .
Then in the same logic you are expressing the US would still be English colonies

Great from Quebec... please leave Canada and take Quebec with you.. maybe you can join Russia.

On second thought , great I am glad you are upset because it is not anything I want to see happen also.

 

[B00Mer]

You poor emotional fool there is no majority to do so .
Then in the same logic you are expressing the US would still be English colonies

On second thought , great I am glad you are upset because it is not anything I want to see happen also.

Quebec has been a thorn in the side of Canada, and the rest of Canada should have a referendum to kick Quebec out..

It sure would lighten up the tax load for the rest of Canada..