The Crimean referendum?
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
So we are now going to join the Native Tribes and put ourselves on a reservation? That 'plan' seems to have a few flaws.
President Putin's address on Crimea 18 March 2014 in FULL - YouTube
The EU and US are in such bad shape now.. having lost their structural, moral, economic, philosophical and cultural integrity.. far removed from the civilizing impulse that has propelled the West over the last 2 millennia that i strongly doubt they can sustain any concerted action against Russia.
They are too filled with hypocrisy, and Europe is too reliant on Russian Natural Gas, and Russia has to many options in Asia and the Southern Hemisphere for this to be anything but a feeble symbolic gesture.
It's really the western Ukrainians who put this all in play by disenfranchising their eastern compatriots from any consensus on the issue of trade relations. Many are viciously anti Russian bigots, and they seem to have set in motion a momentum that will lead to the division of Eastern and Western Ukraine along the Dneiper River.
The West has virtually assured that result by its history of moving NATO into every country that casts its economic nets westwards, activating the Russian sense of being isolated and encircled.
They are too filled with hypocrisy, and Europe is too reliant on Russian Natural Gas, and Russia has to many options in Asia and the Southern Hemisphere for this to be anything but a feeble symbolic gesture.
It's really the western Ukrainians who put this all in play by disenfranchising their eastern compatriots from any consensus on the issue of trade relations. Many are viciously anti Russian bigots, and they seem to have set in motion a momentum that will lead to the division of Eastern and Western Ukraine along the Dneiper River.
The West has virtually assured that result by its history of moving NATO into every country that casts its economic nets westwards, activating the Russian sense of being isolated and encircled.
No problem. I wasn't offended or angry if I came across that way.
Sure its national security issues are to be considered. So the ASU should reassure Kanata it has no intention of attacking it, and one way of doing that is showing respect for international law. Now, let's just suppose all of these fictional countries like to present themselves as Christian countries, and all of them abide by international law, then certainly they could find common ground in the love of Christ, no? In which case they'd all share the same 'national security interests'.
Same.
Was it legal? If it was legal and for a just cause, then yes. I'm not a pacifist; I just limit myself to just war.
If it's in accordance wth international law, then why not. Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that they're all a Muslim people, certainly they coudl find some common ground, no? And even if different religions, if they all teach justice, love, brotherhood, then what's the obstacle?
I could be wrong, but this is just my current quick flow of ideas.
Civilised the hell outta my people, that's for sure.
As opposed to when one of them stated "all men are created equal" and held slaves?
Nah, no hypocrisy there.
Possibly, but there's two factors to consider. . .
1. The reliance goes two ways. Russia relies on Western Europe for many industrial goods, as well as many consumer goods.
2. North America's energy production is increasing. There may be, or may soon be, viable alternatives to Russian natural gas.
Well, that's true. If Ukraine had bowed down deeply enough to Russia, I'm fairly certain Russia wouldn't have invaded.
We should have let Russia into NATO.
I should say too that I'd even consider rule of law as more important than majorty rule for the sake of protecting minorities, whether the Tatars in Krimea or the Alqonquins in Canada as examples. It's too easy for majority rule to degenerate into nothing more than mob rule.
The long version.
President Putin's address on Crimea 18 March 2014 in FULL - YouTube
I'll bet Portugal would have welcomed 'masked gunmen' in the past.
EU aid destroyed Portugal - English pravda.ru
No words needed.
Stock Market Alert! Russia Transfers U.S. Treasuries as Dollar Attack Begins - YouTube
President Putin's address on Crimea 18 March 2014 in FULL - YouTube
I'll bet Portugal would have welcomed 'masked gunmen' in the past.
EU aid destroyed Portugal - English pravda.ru
No words needed.
Stock Market Alert! Russia Transfers U.S. Treasuries as Dollar Attack Begins - YouTube
Actually Russia does have a semblance of an integrated industrial economy still.. having not disposed on it primary processing cababilities in things like steel and metal processing and refining.. and still retaining its low tech primary manufacturing, through to sophisticated technological assemblies.. all of which the West has disposed of to pay fealty to its god of Free Markets. That's the reason the West's economies are spiralling downwards.. massively aggravated by monetarism.. the commodification, de-nationalization, and free trade in currency and credit.
As far as the its colonial period was concerned, no one ever said it fully manifested its ideals in its expansions. In fact slavery and conquest and looting were part of it... but there was a more idealistic side as well (specifically in its Christian evangelism).. which saw some sense of civilized attitudes restored after the conquistadors blazed a trail of blood and destruction.
Russia actually offered a realistic proposal of Ukrainian federalization, essentially de-centralization of Ukraine under a federal superstructure.. AND.. 15 billion $ in aid... 15X what the West has offered.. but the radical anti-Russian elements were not willing to listen and not interested in gaining a consensus from their countrymen.. in their pursuit of disintegrating American greenback and siren call of Western 'prosperity'. Hence they unstrung the ties that bound their country together. Essentially scuttling it heavy industrial processing capabilities .. without which it will freeze in dark.. unable to pay its energy bill.. and with nothing to trade for those delicious Western luxury goods.
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20 gunmen???
Gunmen Storm Ukrainian Warship in Crimea — Naharnet
Ukraine's defense ministry on Thursday said around 20 gunmen seized a Ukrainian warship, the Ternopil, in the port of Sevastopol in Crimea.
"The ship has been taken," Vladislav Seleznyov, the defense ministry's spokesman in Crimea, said on his Facebook page, after earlier telling Agence France Presse: "The assault has begun".
On Facebook, Seleznyov said pro-Moscow militiamen and Russian soldiers cordoned off the area, while a boat with the gunmen on board approached the Ternopil and stormed it.
"Stun grenades were used during the assault and automatic fire was heard," he said.
Called by AFP, an officer on board the Slavutich, a second Ukrainian warship next to the Ternopil, did not answer.
Gunmen Storm Ukrainian Warship in Crimea — Naharnet
Ukraine's defense ministry on Thursday said around 20 gunmen seized a Ukrainian warship, the Ternopil, in the port of Sevastopol in Crimea.
"The ship has been taken," Vladislav Seleznyov, the defense ministry's spokesman in Crimea, said on his Facebook page, after earlier telling Agence France Presse: "The assault has begun".
On Facebook, Seleznyov said pro-Moscow militiamen and Russian soldiers cordoned off the area, while a boat with the gunmen on board approached the Ternopil and stormed it.
"Stun grenades were used during the assault and automatic fire was heard," he said.
Called by AFP, an officer on board the Slavutich, a second Ukrainian warship next to the Ternopil, did not answer.