Yes, there is a big difference between culture and civilization. Most civilizations are not civil at all.
The cradle of civilization was not in Mesopotamia
- Thread starter Cliffy
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One thing is for sure, we are a much older species than was thought up until very recently and pre-glaciation civilizations cannot be totally out of the question. A bit more evidence might help. You also have to wonder why evidence didn't survive in the unglaciated south if there was one.
I am aware of Gobeki tepi but not that it was world wide. There may have been many different civilizations world wide but not necessarily that one. So what happened that brought us down to having to start all over again after the ice age?
I guess that we'd still notice some background radiation. Perhaps some other weaponized natural phenomenon that we haven't yet thought of ...."Higgs Boson Bombs" ... "gravitation bombs" ...
Oh for.... Adam comes from the ancient Hebrew and means "son of the red earth". The name, like the story of Eden is allegorical. The name Adam was used because it expresses multiple points about the "first man" in one name. We know he was male because of the word "son". "Red" describes his complexion meaning he was ruddy skinned and God made Adam from the dust of the Earth, supposedly.
Obviously at some point, the first human males would have evolved but I doubt there was just one. Which brings up an important question. Which species of human would "Adam" have been? Denisovan? Cro-Magnon? Neanderthal? Modern human?
The story of Noah was blatant rip off of the saga of Gilgamesh.
However, there is a more mundane background to both story. The Fertile Crescent used to have a habit of flooding. Some years the floods would be pretty bad. It's quite likely that some village/town leaders along the Tigris and Euphrates rivers (and Greater and Lower Zab rivers) would have built boats large enough to save their villagers as well as at least some of the livestock. And there is some evidence to suggest that.
Noah may well have been a real person although the religious texts written about that period were still slipping in and out of the allegorical. But it is entirely possible Noah was one of those village or town leaders that had the foresight to build some kind of boat when he realized that flooding throughout the Fertile Crescent was more than just a rare occurrence. Just that his story got made into something way bigger than it was and passed into legend and mythology.
You didn't notice any pyramids or temples lying around...no red haired white people in Florida 7000 years ago?...how long were they there for, were did they come from?
No world wide common DNA?...like the greeks and cherokee?
No world wide common phonetics?...like the words "Ma" "Chi"or even "Tipi"?
Not looking is not the same as not finding.
Not to mention certain groups that would lose EVERYTHING if the truth were out.
..and they own a lot of media and control most institutes of education in one way or another.
BTW: there was a time when the seas split apart and people walked across ocean bottoms:
It was called the ICE AGE...
Sorry there MOE if that fvcks up your "we are gods chosen people" story somewhat.
Tough.
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Gilgamesh was Noah? If I remember the gilgamesh story he went on a hike not a boat ride.
The cradle of human civilization has been reinvented many times in many places by many related humanoids some closely related some barely related and the Gods have failed to tame them every time. This planets geological and human features are in constant motion, this planets last God was Saturn and Venues was witnessed being born by humans who suffered it's birth pains, this systems planetary configuration is also a matter of adjustments when necessary to correct orbital stability from time to time. So any guessing origins is fun but futile.
Bar Sinister; said:
I'm not sure that societies in which villages flourished on agriculture and hunting do not constitute "civilization". For example, many Native American "tribes" or more correctly, Nations, did not have large urban centers, architecture, or written languages. But I would be very hesitant to accept the notion that they or their ancestors who lived much like them were not part of any civilization. I guess it depends on who is defining the term.
The criteria listed are standard for the definition of a civilization. The only culture that does not seem to properly fit this mold was that of the Inca, who had no writing system, but did have a system of record keeping that worked for them. The cultures of the Anasazi and the Mississippi come close to these definitions, but do not quite reach them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippian_culture
''It was composed of a series of urban settlements and satellite villages (suburbs) linked together by a loose trading network,[2] the largest city being Cahokia, believed to be a major religious center''
This does seem to be within the guidelines you cited. However, it does not quite predate the eras we are referring to.
''It was composed of a series of urban settlements and satellite villages (suburbs) linked together by a loose trading network,[2] the largest city being Cahokia, believed to be a major religious center''
This does seem to be within the guidelines you cited. However, it does not quite predate the eras we are referring to.
One of the problems with studying both of the cultures you mention is that their inhabitants disappeared before they could be properly documented. However, the remnants of their culture would certainly define them as a civilization, although as you say, not a particularly early one compared to Mesopotamia.
Yes thankyou but do you in fact have a position?
yes no or maybeHURRY THE FUK UP WE DON'T HAVE FOREVERE DO YOU IN FGACT HAVE A POSITION, SORRY MY KEYBOORD ZERO HAS BECOME STICKY FOR SOME RESASON
CARRY ON GOPHER, YOU ARE A SWEATY SOLID NICE HUMAN STUFF i THINK
asMUCH AS i THINK i ACTUALLY THINK, I THINK
bUT THERE ARE THESE THINGS THOUGHT INTO HARDWARM ALL OVER THE PLANET, things of incredible beauty and mind and math and mass and matter and spirit, what a bunch of nice people we are.hahahahahahahaha I.m not kidding, how nice to find a little civilization in a sea of shjt.. Imagine that if you will. good evening frum the coast with the most
real man eating weather
At one time in the last century it was thought that PEI would shine above the rest of the Maritime provinces but it has recently been published in pere reviewd stuff that the potatoe has actually positioned itself 52.75 percent higher in value than the avertage Prince Edward Islander. I am horified shocked and mortified can hardley eat near death at this kind of horrible anti islander rumur,it is not truemany of them have learned to drive automobiles.
We own nothing. Everything is on loan to us by our great grand children. There is no stability and comfort is our worst enemy. The Earth is sovereign and we are but a part of the life force we call the biosphere; the source of all life on this planet. There in nothing civilized about civilization. It is slavery. We have owners in this so called civilization. Indigenous people owned nothing. They were participants in life. We are more like spectators at the Roman Circus watching others kill each other, being thankful that it is not us, thinking that that makes us free. Freedom is being like the ancestors who had nothing. Our stuff enslaves us. It was taught that we use what we have and when it is gone, we use something else. We use stuff but we don't own it. When this "civilization" falls, and it will very soon, we will be free again.
I can feel your real Cliffy. But being real again entails some uecomfortable mathmaticle and metapysicle explication, thirtybucks a month could save you, why not join us andmove forward, do you have grand children Cliffty?
I have no doubt whatever that love rules. If you shine with that love you will live forever, if you lust after chunks of matter you will burn in hell. I am reminded that I am not an expert about the real. I Imagine it's just slightly to the right of my visiojn.Of course you wil say that;s illusion at it's manistyfication sp if you are a recognized ratinal thinke