the cost of war and who suports it

[PoliticalNick]

Down here you'd be considered a Right Wing Religious Gun Nut.

Except for the fact I am not religious and have no use for it, I believe in free universal healthacare and education, and I believe a true socialist society is what we need. I just believe we should be able to protect these thing from those who would take them away.

Not right wing at all.

 

[EagleSmack]

Except for the fact I am not religious and have no use for it, I believe in free universal healthacare and education, and I believe a true socialist society is what we need. I just believe we should be able to protect these thing from those who would take them away.

Not right wing at all.

Doesn't matter what you really are or believe, that is how you'd be considered down here.

So on the flip side... are you a Socialist Revolutionary?

 

[PoliticalNick]

Doesn't matter what you really are or believe, that is how you'd be considered down here.

So on the flip side... are you a Socialist Revolutionary?

I guess that would be close to the mark.

Please realize though that I mean true socialism, not corrupt communism which is just as bad as corrupt democracy or facism. It is the corruption that creates the problems in either socialism or democracy, both have great ideals that get corrupted by some peoples' thirst for and love of power.

 

[EagleSmack]

I guess that would be close to the mark.

Please realize though that I mean true socialism, not corrupt communism which is just as bad as corrupt democracy or facism. It is the corruption that creates the problems in either socialism or democracy, both have great ideals that get corrupted by some peoples' thirst for and love of power.

I know, I know. I'm from Massachusetts and we have all that kind of stuff being chatted about at Harvard Square.

So you would replace the Canadian Government with a government like Cuba? Or Venezuela?

 

[PoliticalNick]

I know, I know. I'm from Massachusetts and we have all that kind of stuff being chatted about at Harvard Square.

So you would replace the Canadian Government with a government like Cuba? Or Venezuela?

Of course not.

I would like to see a government that is composed of honest hardworking people who care about all humanity and only desire reward in the form of a better society for everyone.

I am pretty sure I have a long wait ahead. It is far too altruistic to expect that in our greed based, profit driven world.

 

[Machjo]

I could see Canada adopt a policy similar to West Germany's policy during the cold war. You could choose between joining the army like in Switzerland, or a civil service force as an alternative, though if I'm not mistaken the length of service time in the civil service force was a little longer.

This could be one way of catering to pacifists.

 

[EagleSmack]

Of course not.

Well what model would you use?

I would like to see a government that is composed of honest hardworking people who care about all humanity and only desire reward in the form of a better society for everyone.

I'd say you pretty much descibed Canada as far as I can tell. For the most part.

I am pretty sure I have a long wait ahead. It is far too altruistic to expect that in our greed based, profit driven world.

Yes, I'd say.

 

[JLM]

Not everyone is suited for all aspects of war. If I was put on the front line with an AK 47 I would be a basket case, but I could be handy at peeling spuds or possibly digging latrines. What I'm saying is if there were to be compulsory participation in something with a military focus, there has to be a lot of flexibility, so square pegs don't get jammed in round holes. On the other hand if the "war" was on child molesters I might feel quite at home with an AK 47.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

I'd also like to know why the leaders aren't discussing the real results of the ongoing conflict in Afghanistan which is an increasing radicalization and cohesion of Pashtun tribal groups and their movement from the border region into the more populous areas of Pakistan. The pressure of having NATO engaged in a long term conflict in Afghanistan is resulting in a greater threat of a fundamentalist takeover in a country that has between 30-40 nukes. We could finally end the conflict in Afghanistan(which I doubt will ever happen) and still face and even more dangerous enemy from the country next door.

Tunnel vision is a very dangerous thing in conflict.

 

[PoliticalNick]

I'd also like to know why the leaders aren't discussing the real results of the ongoing conflict in Afghanistan which is an increasing radicalization and cohesion of Pashtun tribal groups and their movement from the border region into the more populous areas of Pakistan. The pressure of having NATO engaged in a long term conflict in Afghanistan is resulting in a greater threat of a fundamentalist takeover in a country that has between 30-40 nukes. We could finally end the conflict in Afghanistan(which I doubt will ever happen) and still face and even more dangerous enemy from the country next door.

Tunnel vision is a very dangerous thing in conflict.

It does not get talked about because those with the greatest influence in Washington are those that profit greatly from the war continuing. Face the facts, war makes some people very rich and the fear it creates allows your freedom to be taken away with your blessing.

These are very desirable things for greedy people who love power and control.

 

[gopher]

Years ago when we first started debating this and the Iraq war on this forum, I wrote that both wars would continue as long as there is a profit to be made from each. So far, the facts prove that I was correct all along.

 

[Cobalt_Kid]

It does not get talked about because those with the greatest influence in Washington are those that profit greatly from the war continuing. Face the facts, war makes some people very rich and the fear it creates allows your freedom to be taken away with your blessing.

These are very desirable things for greedy people who love power and control.

That's true to a degree.

But Canada stood up the US during the Cold War and LBJ reported punched out Pearson for refusing to send troops to Vietnam in the 60s, why are we so wimped-out now. For all his flash and flare even Trudeau had the guts to define a Canadian identity separate from the US.

 

[gopher]

A book hated by those who love making war profits:

Angell’s most famous work, The Great Illusion (1910), translated into more than a score of languages, tried to establish the fallacy of the idea that conquest and war brought a nation great economic advantage and ensured its living space and access to markets, trade, and raw materials.


In other words, only certain parties benefit from war - but society in general does not. Thus, all wars are rich man's war, poor man's fight.

 

[Colpy]

I want to know why no one is talking about the Afganistan occupation in this campain? At a excalating cost of over 22 billions plus the latest cost for new jets at 9 billion ( and we know it will probably be double that)I want to know which candidate suports this and which doesn't?

You are really not paying attention, are you?

Canadian troops were sent to the conflict in Afghanistan by the Liberal government, in order to live up to our mutual defense treaties with the USA and NATO.....with UN approval.

Canadian troops have been kept in Afghanistan by the Conservatives, with Liberal support.

Why do I have to explain this to you?????

 

[petros]

What's a UN?

 

[MHz]

albeit it maybe better spent if they were engaged in some other project like cleaning up our environment.

The job of the private sector is to not get the enviornment dirty in the first place, we train soldiers mostly for war, if it was a civil works projects we would be giving them landscaping tools (big ones)rather than state of the art weapons that we have never ever needed to use in defense of the 'homeland'. Here's your F-35 now go clean the mercury out of those tailing piles. lol

 

[anticon]

War is free.
Its the easiest thing to do.
There is nothing easier than following the 2nd law of thermodynamics
Patriotism follows the same.
Put them together you have the unthinking degeneration of unthinking matter.
Throw in a hockey game a donut and a pseudo celtic song and its home sweet home in the Maritimes.

I'm all for it.

 

[Jack_Of_Spade]

I'd argue that the true cost of war is not in dollars but in lives lost.

And we do have a moral obligation to help others, it's what make us human.

I have nothing but respect for our men and women in uniform. I just wish more of them could come home at the end of the day.

I refuse to equate my grand father's sacrifice fighting in world war 1 and 2 with the Canadian soldiers who are now killing in an occupied country (Afganistan). They have the right to refuse posting there based on there concience so if they are there its because they chose it. I will boycote any memorial which combines WW1 and 2 vets along side of Afgan invation vets and shame on those who cant tell the diference!