The Bizarre Case of "Admiral Mark Norman"

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
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Olympus Mons
I'm sure the social conservatives that were upset at the Liberals interfering with a DND contract will be equally upset that the Conservatives interfered with a DND contract
Umm hey stupid? It is quite normal for an Admiral to discuss/oversee a shipbuilding project with the yard/company that's building it. But since you decided to stupid your way into this conversation one has to ask you, did the Conservatives attempt to destroy a man's reputation and career by "interfering" (as you put it) with the contract? And how could they "interfere" with the contract when they were the ones who issued the f*cking thing in the first place. Christ, you're as f*cking stupid as Hoid with his whiny Harper whataboutisms.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
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Northern Ontario,
One fool is stuck on white Natty supposed insult!
The other fool is stuck on social conservatives also thinking it's an insult...
It's a sure bet that both of them vote Liberal!
 

Twin_Moose

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 17, 2017
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Sajjan says he supported chief of defence staff's decision to suspend Norman

OTTAWA — Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan says he supported the chief of defence staff's decision to suspend Vice-Admiral Mark Norman in 2017, more than a year before he was charged with breach of trust for allegedly leaking government secrets about military procurement.
But Sajjan told the House of Commons on Wednesday that the decision was Gen. Jonathan Vance's alone.
The public prosecutor abruptly stayed the charges against Norman last week, fuelling opposition charges that the Liberal government interfered politically in the case. Sajjan systematically rejected those accusations Wednesday as he withstood a four-hour opposition grilling in the Commons about the case and other hot defence issues.
Sajjan insisted the Norman case was handled independently of the government "from start to finish" — beginning with Norman's suspension and including the RCMP's decision to charge him and the public prosecutor's eventual decision to drop the matter...………….MORE
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
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So any 18yo kid that has at least Grade 10 can walk into any Trade Union Hall in Canada and work his or her way to Red Seal and earn $35-$55 an hour with bennys and pension?






NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


NYET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Such fine jobs are ONLY OPEN to the special anointed ones among us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It helps to have a relative who held such a job before you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It helps to have a family that is KNOWN to have "proper" political affiliations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


By which I mean you MUST NEVER have said anything good about any Conservative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And it is even better if you can point to a LONG HISTORY of political activism in defense of hard core SOCIALIST values!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Such gravy rich jobs must quite literally be BORN into......................................................


it is like inheriting the title of Duke or Duchess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It is not duty for just anybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And IF you manage to get your foot in the door and gain an apprenticeship...................................


then FOR GAWDS SAKE...............................DONT SCREW IT UP by saying anything nice about Doug Ford!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Such an independent political thought will GET YOU FIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Mowich

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 25, 2005
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Christie Blatchford: For the Liberals, the Norman file is yet another case closed


So here we all are, more than a week after the criminal charge against Vice-Admiral Mark Norman was stayed.

The former second-in-command of the Canadian Forces is not yet back at work.

The all-party defence committee met Thursday upon a motion from Opposition members that the committee convene hearings and call witnesses into the government’s conduct and investigation of Norman.

Naturally, the Liberal majority on the committee refused, just as the Liberal majority on the justice committee refused to reconvene to hear more evidence in the SNC-Lavalin matter.

In the House of Commons Thursday, with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau overseas and Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan not in evidence, that left respectively the remarkably ineffectual National Revenue Minister Diane Lebouthillier and Sajjan’s parliamentary secretary, Serge Cormier, to “answer” queries directed to them.

“Answer” is in quotes because it appears no one in this government ever remotely even pretends to actually provide a responsive answer.

Similarly, Sajjan and Trudeau were also tragically unavailable to be in the House Tuesday when MPs unanimously passed a motion apologizing to Norman.

Both have declined opportunities since to make their own apologies, odd especially for the PM, who after all has made saying sorry for the sins and policies of others and other governments, some in power before he was born, part of his own darling brand.

Sajjan, whom you may wrongly remember as the Lion of Medusa (in the spring of 2017, he told a crowd in Delhi that he was the “architect” of Canada’s largest battle in Afghanistan, called Op Medusa, and later apologized for overstating his role) has given every sign of adhering to the enduring Liberal tradition of throwing the least valuable/quickly available person under the bus.

This week, Sajjan said that the decision to suspend Norman, more than a year before he was criminally charged, was made by Chief of Defence Staff Jon Vance.

Oh he certainly supported it, Sajjan said, but it was Vance’s decision alone.

Now, let us cast our tiny minds back to January of 2017.

On Monday, Jan. 9 that year, Vance was briefed on the RCMP investigation into Norman’s alleged conduct.

Vance then handed the Vice-Admiral what’s called “a notice of intent,” alerting Norman that he might — operative word, might — be relieving him of military duty.

Then he went to brief Gerald Butts, at the time Trudeau’s principal secretary (he resigned early on in the SNC-Lavalin imbroglio), the PM’s then and current chief of staff Katie Telford and others.

That meeting, Vance testified in court during a motion in Norman’s case in January, started around 4 p.m. that day.

Then, Vance said, he got a phone call from the PM, who confirmed he’d been filled in.

Then Vance said he told Sajjan and his own chief of staff.

He took not one single note of any of these discussions.

And then he went out for dinner with Butts and Telford.

Four days later, on Friday, Jan. 13, Norman was formally suspended; it took effect Jan. 16.

I am no Ottawa sophisticate, but my hunch is that if the Chief of Defence Staff often has meals with Butts and Telford, that’s pretty interesting.

And if he didn’t, and this was a one-off, then it’s even more interesting: Why, on this sad and unusual occasion, would Vance break bread with two intensely political animals in the PM’s office?

Vance testified, with a straight face, that “We did not discuss that (the Norman suspension), I’m quite sure.”

Well, what the heck did they discuss?

(That wasn’t asked at the time because this wasn’t the trial itself, merely the defence third-party records motion.)

Those who are wiser in the ways of the national capital than I am struggle to believe that the CDS — any CDS, not just Vance — would make a decision to suspend Norman all on his own.

More likely, they suggest, is that he first ran it by either the prime minister or Sajjan.

Thus, when the PM et al say that the prosecution wasn’t political, they cannot be taken seriously.

The decisions of the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, first to charge Norman and then to stay the charge, were independent and made without the overt sort of PMO/Privy Council Office interference that occurred in SNC-Lavalin.

But this prosecution was deeply political.

It was the Privy Council Office, which was the complainant, in that the PCO first investigated the leak that so embarrassed the new government in November of 2015.

They found that there were six separate leaks of information around the very same meeting Norman was accused of leaking about and that 42 people knew the meeting was happening, and 73 who knew the outcome.

The PCO, headed of course by clerk Michael Wernick, then called in the RCMP, and in March of last year, more than a year after Norman had been suspended, they charged him with a single count of breach of trust.

Throughout, the PCO was the gatekeeper of records and documents, and it was the PCO that resisted disclosing to the defence (and prosecutors) information that was critical to Norman’s defence and full prosecutorial understanding of the circumstances.

The RCMP, which has of course defended its investigation, failed for two years to ask witnesses it interviewed early on for the notes they mentioned they had, prompting one of them to come forward to the defence, so worried was she that they were missing out on key context.

The RCMP also failed to interview a single member of the former Stephen Harper government, though fully 11 of the dozen times Norman was alleged to have leaked information happened under the Conservatives’ watch.

Former defence minister Jason Kenney, his predecessor Peter MacKay (at the time justice minister) and former veterans affairs minister Erin O’Toole have publicly confirmed that this is so — they were interviewed only by defence lawyers and gave information that may have played a role in convincing prosecutors they had no reasonable shot at conviction.

At the time of Norman’s suspension, his departure was described as mysterious. No one knew what the precise allegations were. Thus the gravest reputational damage to Norman: To whom had he been leaking and what?

And as my Postmedia colleague David Pugliese reported last year, the government In November of 2017 refused Norman’s request for financial assistance, available under a special program for public servants with legal difficulties, because the government already had deemed him guilty.

As the Queen said in Alice in Wonderland, “Sentence first — verdict later.”

nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-for-the-liberals-the-norman-file-is-yet-another-case-closed
 

Jinentonix

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What a "virtuous" bunch of morally bankrupt cretins. It's sad to think that there are people who actually support this garbage govt.
 

Danbones

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Sep 23, 2015
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The only thing that scares me about Ezra Levant is thought that I share a planet with people like that.
There there now you hatefull sob ( sailor on beatch).
;)
There are seas on the moon you could go sail.
 
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Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
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What a "virtuous" bunch of morally bankrupt cretins. It's sad to think that there are people who actually support this garbage govt.
Trudeau pays for fakenews...

Trudeau’s twist on helping out media: you pay for it
https://mediaactionplan.ca/news/trudeaus-twist-on-helping-out-media-you-pay-for-it/

...with OUR money.
:)
that means these guys work for us!!!

Hoe f8cked up is that?


Trudeau Govt. to Pay $100 Million to Canadians Whose Careers Were Destroyed by Homosexuality Convictions

The Trudeau government will pay more than $100 million to Canadians convicted for “gross indecency” or forced from military careers due to their sexual orientation.
http://www.towleroad.com/2017/11/gross-indecency/

Some veterans want more than Ottawa can afford, Trudeau tells town hall
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-town-hall-edmonton-1.4515822

Funny, those Russians rigging our election want conservatives in and not the crooked commies that are destroying our country now.
 
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Mowich

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Dec 25, 2005
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'The fight of your life': In a Postmedia exclusive, Mark Norman tells his side of the story

Bev Norman was watching television in her home in the east-end Ottawa suburb of Orleans around 5 p.m. when the screen flashed images of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

It was April 6, 2017, and the prime minister was taking questions from journalists. One of them was about Bev’s husband, Vice-Admiral Mark Norman.

Mark Norman was in the kitchen when an astonished Bev called out to him. “I think the prime minister was just talking about you.”

Three months earlier a team of RCMP officers had raided the Normans’ home as part of an investigation into an alleged leak of the Liberal government’s plans to pause a project to procure a supply ship for the Royal Canadian Navy. The federal police force believed Norman had given confidential information to the shipbuilder, Davie, as well as to a CBC journalist in an attempt to prevent the Liberals from scuttling the deal.

The allegations were a working RCMP theory — the raid was part of their ongoing investigation — but when the police briefed Canada’s top soldier, Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jon Vance, he had quickly responded by suspending Norman from his military duties. It would later emerge later that Vance had discussed the matter with Trudeau and top advisors in the Prime Minister’s Office including then-principal secretary Gerald Butts and chief of staff Katie Telford.

Mark came into the living room and the couple fumbled with their PVR to retrieve the news clip of Trudeau. “This is an important matter that is obviously under investigation, and will likely end up before the courts, so I won’t make any further comments at this time,” the prime minister said.

For the Normans it was surreal moment, watching the leader of the country talking about an active legal case and predicting — roughly a year before any charge would be laid — that the naval officer was headed for court. Bev became very upset. “How is that fair?” she asked her husband.

Norman jotted down what Trudeau had said, and immediately phoned his lawyer, Marie Henein, to tell her what happened.

Later that evening Henein issued a statement to journalists. Politicians should not be commenting about whether a case would be going to trial, she noted. “I expect what the prime minister meant to say is that he declined to comment further given that the matter is under investigation,” she said.

It was Henein, perhaps the highest-profile lawyer in the country, providing Trudeau with a way out if he wanted to take it.

But almost a year later Trudeau was back at it, again predicting at a televised town hall in February 2018 that Norman was headed to trial, though he had still not been charged.

Watching TV coverage of that event, Norman couldn’t believe what he was seeing. The prime minister had not only ignored Henein’s subtle warning but had doubled down.

That Trudeau was once again speaking publicly about the case badly upset Bev, so as the couple watched, Norman kept his thoughts to himself.

But, Norman told Postmedia in an exclusive interview, “I was thinking, ‘I’m screwed.’”

A little more than a month after Trudeau’s second prediction, and over two years after the start of their investigation, the RCMP charged Norman with one count of breach of trust.

More:nationalpost.com/news/politics/the-fight-of-your-life-in-a-postmedia-exclusive-mark-norman-tells-his-side-of-the-story
 

Jinentonix

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 6, 2015
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Olympus Mons
'The fight of your life': In a Postmedia exclusive, Mark Norman tells his side of the story
Bev Norman was watching television in her home in the east-end Ottawa suburb of Orleans around 5 p.m. when the screen flashed images of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
It was April 6, 2017, and the prime minister was taking questions from journalists. One of them was about Bev’s husband, Vice-Admiral Mark Norman.
Mark Norman was in the kitchen when an astonished Bev called out to him. “I think the prime minister was just talking about you.”
Three months earlier a team of RCMP officers had raided the Normans’ home as part of an investigation into an alleged leak of the Liberal government’s plans to pause a project to procure a supply ship for the Royal Canadian Navy. The federal police force believed Norman had given confidential information to the shipbuilder, Davie, as well as to a CBC journalist in an attempt to prevent the Liberals from scuttling the deal.
The allegations were a working RCMP theory — the raid was part of their ongoing investigation — but when the police briefed Canada’s top soldier, Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jon Vance, he had quickly responded by suspending Norman from his military duties. It would later emerge later that Vance had discussed the matter with Trudeau and top advisors in the Prime Minister’s Office including then-principal secretary Gerald Butts and chief of staff Katie Telford.
Mark came into the living room and the couple fumbled with their PVR to retrieve the news clip of Trudeau. “This is an important matter that is obviously under investigation, and will likely end up before the courts, so I won’t make any further comments at this time,” the prime minister said.
For the Normans it was surreal moment, watching the leader of the country talking about an active legal case and predicting — roughly a year before any charge would be laid — that the naval officer was headed for court. Bev became very upset. “How is that fair?” she asked her husband.
Norman jotted down what Trudeau had said, and immediately phoned his lawyer, Marie Henein, to tell her what happened.
Later that evening Henein issued a statement to journalists. Politicians should not be commenting about whether a case would be going to trial, she noted. “I expect what the prime minister meant to say is that he declined to comment further given that the matter is under investigation,” she said.
It was Henein, perhaps the highest-profile lawyer in the country, providing Trudeau with a way out if he wanted to take it.
But almost a year later Trudeau was back at it, again predicting at a televised town hall in February 2018 that Norman was headed to trial, though he had still not been charged.
Watching TV coverage of that event, Norman couldn’t believe what he was seeing. The prime minister had not only ignored Henein’s subtle warning but had doubled down.
That Trudeau was once again speaking publicly about the case badly upset Bev, so as the couple watched, Norman kept his thoughts to himself.
But, Norman told Postmedia in an exclusive interview, “I was thinking, ‘I’m screwed.’”
A little more than a month after Trudeau’s second prediction, and over two years after the start of their investigation, the RCMP charged Norman with one count of breach of trust.
More:nationalpost.com/news/politics/the-fight-of-your-life-in-a-postmedia-exclusive-mark-norman-tells-his-side-of-the-story
Team Groper: Leaving a trail of slime wherever they go.
 

bill barilko

Senate Member
Mar 4, 2009
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Team Groper: Leaving a trail of slime wherever they go.
More like Team Dumb-I barely graduated from high school and even I know that politicians should never ever comment matters like this.
OK OK this is Little Potato we're talking about here-what else did we expect?




 

Mowich

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 25, 2005
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MARIN: PM loves apologizing just not for his own transgressions

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau loves apologizing.

Our apologies prime minister has apologized at least four times since taking office in 2015. In fact, he’s apologized more than any of his predecessors. The former part-time substitute drama teacher appears to love the process. Cue in a tear or two on demand and give a seemingly heart-warming speech. A good chance at theatre.

But he only apologizes for past missteps of others from another era. When it comes to himself, taking responsibility is a notion far removed.

It’s easy to apologize to the descendents of passengers of the Komagat Maru, the Japanese vessel prohibited from entry in Canada in 1914 that was carrying 376 Sikh, Muslim and Hindu passengers. Trudeau was born almost 60 after that incident.

He also apologized to residential school survivors. Trudeau even urged the Pope to apologize for the Catholic Church’s role in reconciliation. He was promptly rebuffed, the pontiff saying he could not personally respond.

After a while his apologies started to sound hollow and opportunistic.

Some in the Jewish community didn’t want his apology for the turning away of a ship full of Jews seeking asylum, saying that it would not bring back relatives or offer any solace. Why does he like apologizing so much? Because he’s a woke, nice guy.

Trudeau said: “I come at it as a teacher, as someone who’s worked a lot in communities.”

Trudeau added “apologies for things past are important to make sure that we actually understand and know and share and don’t repeat those mistakes.” All very noble thoughts.

More recently the House of Commons voted to express an apology to former Vice Chief of Staff Mark Norman, who was charged with breach of trust, and guess who was missing in action? Just as question period ended at 3 p.m. Wednesday, Trudeau and his Defence Minister Harjit Singh Sajjan raced out minutes before the vote took place.

Trudeau had to be in Hamilton for a 6 p.m. meeting. As prime minister, he could have been a few minutes late in Hamilton given the importance of the apology. Or he could have simply issued his own statement of apology. And Trudeau has a lot to apologize for when it comes to Norman. For instance, according to Friday’s Globe and Mail, Trudeau was so “furious, frustrated and angry” at the cabinet leak that he personally summoned the RCMP as if it was his personal police force. Normally such issues would have been handled by the Privy Council Office. Trudeau came very close to crossing that line of police independence.

Trudeau doesn’t seem to recognize boundaries in government. He’s like a petulant child who has a temper tantrum until he gets what he wants. Then, in another transgression, Trudeau predicted in 2017 that Norman would end up in court. Since when does a prime minister speak on behalf of the police or the prosecution? Here, he clearly crossed the line.

Then came the protracted pre-trial disclosure process where Norman was denied the government documents essential for him to make full answer and defence. All of this is happening when Trudeau is lecturing China on their justice system, claiming ours is so superior because it is independent. Doesn’t he think the Chinese pay attention to us? The reality is that our justice system has been shown to resist Trudeau’s incursions but not for lack of him trying.

If ever there was a time for Trudeau to call up a tear on demand and apologize, it’s in the SNC and Norman fiascos. But don’t hold your breath.

Trudeau’s inflated ego means his empathy is reserved for decades old affairs with no ties to him.

torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/marin-pm-loves-apologizing-just-not-for-his-own-transgressions
 

Curious Cdn

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Feb 22, 2015
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More recently the House of Commons voted to express an apology to former Vice Chief of Staff Mark Norman, who was charged with breach of trust, and guess who was missing in action? Just as question period ended at 3 p.m. Wednesday, Trudeau and his Defence Minister Harjit Singh Sajjan raced out minutes before the vote took place.

The Liberals hate the Military and have run them right down to the knub repeatedly in our history. What was the plan this time? Operate the Navy with no re-supply capability for the next decade do that they can't go far from our shores? Trudeau and co. we're tight pissed off the Navy got a supply ship at all, it would seem. The "official" replacement AORs are already a decade late and word is that Seaspan is in such a mess, they won't be building the gold plated ones for another half decade, at least and that suits the current government just fine. I guess they figure that if we do away with our defences, you do away with war. A previous Liberal government thought the same way 85 years ago but .... surprise!

When the government changes this fall, the new one should order another Resolve Class supply ship from Davie (there is another sister hull available right now ... Obelix) because they obviously know what they're doing and cancel the Seaspan contract. Even with the penalties, it'll save you and me The Taxpayer billions and we become a two ocean navy, again.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
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36
Get rid of the military.

Not needed.




CONSCRIPT HOID into the military!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Force him to encounter REALITY FOR ONCE in his miss-begotten life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I bet we COULD SELL TICKETS to a documentary recording the first encounter between HOID amd a Drill Sergeant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


BETTER YET.....................................................................


Get the Chinese Red Army to conscript HOID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And record the shock and awwwwweeeeeeeeeeee for future generations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!