The benefits of socialism.

[gopher]

''Do you see anyone trying to stop this other than Republicans?''

What have the Republicans done to deserve your constant defending of them? We would NEVER have had this mess if it wasn't for them.

 

[ironsides]

Canada has socialist policies, we hear American pundits talk about our socialist ways from time to time, usually when Americans are debating progressive policies. Our banks are among the best run financial organizations in the world. We have great lifetime expectancies. We have great education. We have little fear of oversight meant to protect us. We're not perfect, but we're not a failed or failing state. About the same population size as California, and about 24 times the size.

You are not a Socialist Nation by any stretch of the imagination. The U.S. has socialist policies also. Comparing yourselves with California is not right either. Californians destroyed their ability to support a socialist or for that matter any economic system by limiting tax's to support them. In Canada, you have the tax base to pay (so far) for what you do. As JLM pointed out
"That is very understandable in that Socialism is a system that works best when the ENTIRE population is willing to put more into the system than what it takes out."

In the U.S. the entire population, not even 15% would support Socialism, and that is what the Liberals in California forgot when they first started their little experiment. Now the non-committed are starting to realize what is happening and are speaking out.

 

[Tonington]

You are not a Socialist Nation by any stretch of the imagination. The U.S. has socialist policies also. Comparing yourselves with California is not right either. Californians destroyed their ability to support a socialist or for that matter any economic system by limiting tax's to support them. In Canada, you have the tax base to pay (so far) for what you do. As JLM pointed out
"That is very understandable in that Socialism is a system that works best when the ENTIRE population is willing to put more into the system than what it takes out."

Socialist Europe you were talking about. Canada is socialist as well. We have free enterprise and government industries, the same as European nations, and the same as you do.

In the U.S. the entire population, not even 15% would support Socialism, and that is what the Liberals in California forgot when they first started their little experiment. Now the non-committed are starting to realize what is happening and are speaking out.

Red herring. Nobody is asking anyone to turn over all industry to the government. It just so happens that sometimes profit motive doesn't align with the goals for a healthy society.

 

[ironsides]

Socialist Europe you were talking about. Canada is socialist as well. We have free enterprise and government industries, the same as European nations, and the same as you do.

Red herring. Nobody is asking anyone to turn over all industry to the government. It just so happens that sometimes profit motive doesn't align with the goals for a healthy society.

You want to know a couple of secrets, do not call it socialism and we might go along with it. Do not say the rest of the world does it, means nothing to us. The right thing will happen, but in our own way and at when we think the time is right. When you say " It just so happens that sometimes profit motive doesn't align with the goals for a healthy society." you are absolutely right.

 

[AnnaG]

A am assuming nothing. We have a problem today, what can we do today to solve it. What we do tomorrow will not solve global warming/cooling. When I see a serious move to update our power grids, then I'll know we are getting serious. Doing that alone would increase our energy efficiency atleast 100%, by reducing power line loss over distances.

As for those millions of solar panels, just where we put them, were to we store the energy produced that is convent to the panels. There are only a few places in the world that this can be done, like Germany and Spain. But the same problems arise, to many people, not enough room to take care of all.

AGAIN, if households were supplying some of their own power by the use of microhydro, solar, and other forms of alternate energy, a huge amount of the burden would be lifted from power grids and even some could sell their power to those that own the grids.

 

[AnnaG]

Then how is it you think the only thing we can do is replace col with nukes?



And, by not producing power when it isn't needed, throttling the fuel consumption.



On marginal land.



And Florida, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, California, the Sahara, Greece, Italy, France, Lebanon, the Middle east, Australia, there's plenty of suitable land out there available. The sun delivers 7000 times more energy than we consume globally. We only need to use a fraction of available land to provide huge amounts of power. Not with PV panels, they are not as efficient as solar thermal.

And China is eating our lunch on these renewable technologies. All while we have waited for China to commit, before we pass our own legislation, China has been producing more and more of the World's renewable energy infrastructure.

Even betterthan making shade on places that are used to having loads of direct sun would be something like what we've been musing over: Concave, mirrored solar collector - Patent 4038971

Concave, mirrored solar collector - Patent 4038971

 

[AnnaG]

Denmark (pop. 5.5 million approx.) Sweden (pop. 9 million approx) little countries, hardly a good example of socialism. We could have a private club with their results. Lower the population, easier to manage any result you want. Among 2-3 people any system looks good.

California (pop. 34 million approx) human failing, yes, but a human failing that proved system cannot work in larger populations. There is no benefit to socialism in a world population.

No benefits? So cooperation between countries is impossible and they cannot achieve anything together. The only thing that works is competition? :roll: Yeah, right. I believe you where billions wouldn't.

 

[AnnaG]

Capitalism is a shining light in the darkness (unless you lived in cali in the early 2000s). Just love how they faked blackouts/ brownouts and power shortages in California so they could push up power bills. Obviously a perfect system.

:roll: Yeah, that had nothing to do with a few capitalists getting greedy, did it?

 

[AnnaG]

I think people are confusing communism with socialism again.

JK Galbraith: "Under communism, man exploits man. Under capitalism it's the opposite".

Socialism defined:
a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Communism defined:
a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production

Merriam-Webster

 

[AnnaG]

You want to know a couple of secrets, do not call it socialism and we might go along with it. Do not say the rest of the world does it, means nothing to us. The right thing will happen, but in our own way and at when we think the time is right. When you say " It just so happens that sometimes profit motive doesn't align with the goals for a healthy society." you are absolutely right.

So all your moans and groans about socialism are just kneejerk reactions to the term "socialism"? Hey, I can be really scary to you then. I can say "COMMUNISM". lol




Are you in hysterics and panicking yet?

 

[JLM]

I think people are confusing communism with socialism again.

JK Galbraith: "Under communism, man exploits man. Under capitalism it's the opposite".

Socialism defined:
a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Communism defined:
a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production

Merriam-Webster

Someone on here came up with a good definition of Socialism a week or so ago but I forgot to take note of who it was, but in my mind it was a perfect definition. "Socialism works well until some one elses money runs out" :lol::lol:

 

[AnnaG]

Someone on here came up with a good definition of Socialism a week or so ago but I forgot to take note of who it was, but in my mind it was a perfect definition. "Socialism works well until some one elses money runs out" :lol::lol:

That's in line with what Galbraith said about communism and capitalism. Either way, some one is the usurper and someone is the usurpee.

 

[JLM]

That's in line with what Galbraith said about communism and capitalism. Either way, some one is the usurper and someone is the usurpee.

Ooooooooooh, you'd be talkin' about the screwer and the screwee...............:lol::lol:

 

[ironsides]

So all your moans and groans about socialism are just kneejerk reactions to the term "socialism"? Hey, I can be really scary to you then. I can say "COMMUNISM". lol




Are you in hysterics and panicking yet?

Not yet.

"Socialism works well until some one else's money runs out"

And there we have the answer. Easy to be a socialist with someone else's money.

But back to energy for a moment, right now those who can should then install at least a solar panel for hot water. If everyone did it your right the world would benefit.

 

[gopher]

''Easy to be a socialist with someone else's money. ''

That makes Bush a socialist as he borrowed money to finance his war and his expenditures.

 

[Canaduh]

:roll: Yeah, that had nothing to do with a few capitalists getting greedy, did it?

Your sarcasm is misplaced, I agree with you...

 

[Canaduh]

I think people are confusing communism with socialism again.

JK Galbraith: "Under communism, man exploits man. Under capitalism it's the opposite".

Socialism defined:
a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Communism defined:
a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production

Merriam-Webster

Wow what crack was he smoking?. The only difference between capitalism and communism is that in a communist state you know you're getting screwed.

 

[ironsides]

To think there are people even here who believe that socialism can work. To those needy creatures, I say move to Venezuela where you can experiment with someone else's life.
To think this almost happened to us, and still can if we get complacent again.


CARACAS, Venezuela – Venezuelan cable television providers stopped transmitting a channel critical of President Hugo Chavez on Sunday, after the government cited noncompliance with new regulations requiring the socialist leader's speeches be televised on cable.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100124/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_media

 

[Canaduh]

To think there are people even here who believe that socialism can work. To those needy creatures, I say move to Venezuela where you can experiment with someone else's life.
To think this almost happened to us, and still can if we get complacent again.


CARACAS, Venezuela – Venezuelan cable television providers stopped transmitting a channel critical of President Hugo Chavez on Sunday, after the government cited noncompliance with new regulations requiring the socialist leader's speeches be televised on cable.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100124/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_media

I think the leadership itself is more the problem rather than the type of leadership. Just as there are different types of democracy, monarchy and communism there is different "degrees" of socialism. Using one country as an example while ignoring the others is short sighted.

 

[ironsides]

I think the leadership itself is more the problem rather than the type of leadership. Just as there are different types of democracy, monarchy and communism there is different "degrees" of socialism. Using one country as an example while ignoring the others is short sighted.

Not short sighted, and you right about leadership. Socialism has been tried many times and in small countries it at times may work for a while, but mostly fails.

List of socialist countries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia