Theirs is a fiscally conservative country too though. fiscal conservativism is not unique to any particular ideology. In Canada, all of our main parties are fiscally liberal.
The benefits of socialism.
- Thread starter Walter
- Start date
Walnut, no matter how many reds you give me it will not change the fact that when you bought into capitalism under fiat banking you were sold a lame bill of goods.
With your present attitude I hope you lose every nickle.
This is a recording from 1967, It describes events we see in the news today with shocking accuracy. Everything was pre planned and they only have one goal. Myron Fagan is the speaker
With your present attitude I hope you lose every nickle.
Social Democracy is not Socialism. Its capitalism with higher taxes and more social programs.
Scandinavia is mostly social-corporatist (i.e. as far right as you can get while still sitting left of centre).
The countries I have been covering happen to be sitting on big pools of oil that tries to see the locals get as little as possible and the corporations get as much profit as possible so the ones buying the refined products are also being over-billed for what manufacturing really costs.
Canada might appear to be socialist in health care until you look at the 'elite' do get excellent care and do foreigners that are also 'elite'. At the bottom end of the scale are the ones who are used as lab-rats where they are fed untested drugs and the PR pushes they are getting 'the newest so it must be the best; hype. Indians and poor immigrants and welfare bums would be high on the list for can be experimented on and the Govt will run the protection from prosecution end of it.
When industry fails tourism is the next best way to make money with little investment.
Canada might appear to be socialist in health care until you look at the 'elite' do get excellent care and do foreigners that are also 'elite'. At the bottom end of the scale are the ones who are used as lab-rats where they are fed untested drugs and the PR pushes they are getting 'the newest so it must be the best; hype. Indians and poor immigrants and welfare bums would be high on the list for can be experimented on and the Govt will run the protection from prosecution end of it.
Perhaps the biggest difference is that gap between the rich and the poor is less. Capping the highest would pretty much solve the poor issue and the ones at the top would still have all their luxuries, just no money to salt away at the end of the year.
When industry fails tourism is the next best way to make money with little investment.
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Semantics. Swedish 'socialism' isn't perfect, but in some respects, it's more free market than Canada with its penchant for free trade, school vouchers, two-tiered healthcare, etc. enough to make Canada look marxist in some respects.
They have less of a wealth gap too, goes to show that moderate socialism might work better than the Marxist kind we like in our health care, marketing boards, etc.
So much hate Walnut, perhaps you are close to a meltdown, if not now you soon will be. Have you noticed that nobody is defending your line of shit anymore? That must be a bit scary for some turd from the collective.
You missed the sign that said 'heavy toll if you cross this bridge', happy trails.
Roy Rogers - Happy trails
Don't forget to add in the interest on the national debt as that is another way the poor get looted when legal means don't keep them at the lower end of 'poor'. Every 7 years of the US since the FED was created in 1913. They already owned the stock markets so things were run at Company Town levels.
If you don't like the way it turned out why help create it in the first place. As harsh as it gets I don't see the poor marching in the streets demanding a return to the 'old ways'.
Timeline of the 2018 Venezuelan protests
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2018_Venezuelan_protests
Walnut, the riots have been going on for a few decades, that is how much the people hate the way the World Bank does business with people they consider to be worthless eaters. Your group is the insane one Walnut, guess what that makes you.
Walnut:
I can find many articles that support what you are suggesting and they all take the same route that you do. The riots as far back as 1993 are as important to today's events as Cuba's sanctions were 30 years after they started. Iran escaped in 1979 and the first act by the US was an 8 year war using Saddam as their proxy army. Chemical were used by Saddam with the blessing of NATO as that is who supplied the chemicals. In all their cases socialism is blamed for the woes and that ends up being a lie from the start as the sanctions are not mentioned even though the effects of them are recorded in Iraq after Gulf War I stopped and the oil for food program was implemented. Who it affected is also recorded so when those same methods are applied to other nations it is geared to regime change and the plight of the poorest is used as the reason even though their plight is the result of sanctions being applied. Before they revolted any vocal opposition would simply get you disappeared, perhaps your whole family. That part seems to be left out even though it is part of a pattern that is repeated over and over and over again.
Destruction of the local inhabitants in a way that is least noticed yet it removed anybody but the EU invaders from being able to claim to be from there. Industry is pushed using foreign based companies and locals do the grunt work and make the least amount allowed. Shareholders are given as big a profit as can be had using legal and illegal methods at the expense of the health and welfare of the locals. The illegal activities bring in the best profits. Refugees that never come home is a bigger profit of the Banks once they are back in control. War has 1 purpose and it matters very little if is economic rather than a military conflict.
If a nation's ability to feed itself when under a siege is taken away then punishment through an engineered famine is quite easy to arrange, prevent food from being imported and what is there should rot in storage rather than be delivered. Those are the methods that are approved by you Walnut.
So pile on the reds because this is about to include South America starting with why the original white invaders had to import slaves in the first place. That should be fun eh? (but first)
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/americas/donald-trump-venezuela-military-coup.html
rump Administration Discussed Coup Plans With Rebel Venezuelan Officers
Sept. 8, 2018
The Trump administration held secret meetings with rebellious military officers from Venezuela over the last year to discuss their plans to overthrow President Nicolás Maduro, according to American officials and a former Venezuelan military commander who participated in the talks.
Establishing a clandestine channel with coup plotters in Venezuela was a big gamble for Washington, given its long history of covert intervention across Latin America. Many in the region still deeply resent the United States for backing previous rebellions, coups and plots in countries like Cuba, Nicaragua, Brazil and Chile, and for turning a blind eye to the abuses military regimes committed during the Cold War.
The White House, which declined to answer detailed questions about the talks, said in a statement that it was important to engage in “dialogue with all Venezuelans who demonstrate a desire for democracy” in order to “bring positive change to a country that has suffered so much under Maduro.”
But one of the Venezuelan military commanders involved in the secret talks was hardly an ideal figure to help restore democracy: He is on the American government’s own sanctions list of corrupt officials in Venezuela.
He and other members of the Venezuelan security apparatus have been accused by Washington of a wide range of serious crimes, including torturing critics, jailing hundreds of political prisoners, wounding thousands of civilians, trafficking drugs and collaborating with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, which is considered a terrorist organization by the United States.
American officials eventually decided not to help the plotters, and the coup plans stalled. But the Trump administration’s willingness to meet several times with mutinous officers intent on toppling a president in the hemisphere could backfire politically.
The content is not as important as the filtering method as well as what is left out, such as the 'death squads' that were government enforcers before the revolt back in 1993. The current conditions have the bad parts exaggerated and the original cause for existing sanctions is not mentioned so there is no tie between those two items as being the reason for the strife. Added to that is Canada stands by and 'watches' even though we could buy the oil we import from them rather that the KSA and we have enough grain that bread could be free. We prefer to stand by and watch the suffering caused by the sanctions, we did the same in Iraq and in Libya we we helping to ensure their social programs and the World Bank was back to running the country the way it wanted. What nation wouldn't resist that happening to 85% of the local population? The other 15% have the option, kill or be killed.
https://news.sky.com/story/why-is-venezuela-a-country-in-turmoil-11478533
What's the big problem now?
In Venezuela, inflation is completely out of control.
The International Monetary Fund predicts it will reach a million percent by the end of the year.
The country cannot borrow money on the international markets after defaulting on a whole range of debts.
To make ends meet, it chose to simply print more and more cash - a sure-fire way of creating inflation.
What caused this?
Lots of things over the past 20 years, but largely the country's huge reliance on the value of oil.
It spent, and borrowed, heavily during the good time, then suffered when the price fell.
Successive presidents have also nationalised industries - oil, steel, telecommunications, banking - and sacked experienced staff.
Starved of investment, maintenance and skills, the oil and steel industries are much, much less productive than they were 20 years ago.
Add in a decent slice of corruption, controls over capital and currencies, an inability to borrow from most markets, reluctance of global businesses to invest and then stir in sanctions from America and you get a big problem.
Venezuela simply doesn't generate the money it needs to get by.
So it printed loads instead, hence rampant inflation.
(in part)
The IMF should know as it dictates who gets money and who doesn't, giving more to the 85% that 'they' want meets with retribution, Argentina is an example of how that control works at the political level as the Company farms never missed a beat while the slums in the cities simply got worse and worse as rural people were forced to live in urban areas.
https://www.ft.com/content/55bd21a8-b02e-11e8-8d14-6f049d06439c
Hollowed-out Venezuela counts the cost of crisis
Political isolation and economic collapse have led to an exodus of people and overseas companies
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https://www.ft.com/content/55bd21a8-b02e-11e8-8d14-6f049d06439c
Four decades ago Venezuelans could fly in and out of Caracas’s Maiquetía airport on Concorde. These days they are leaving the country on foot — walking over the border into Colombia, traipsing down the Andes to Ecuador and Peru or trudging through the Amazon basin to Brazil. As the economy collapses, the Venezuelan exodus “is building to a crisis moment”, the UN has warned. Drawing comparisons with the desperate journeys of Syrians and Africans through the Mediterranean in recent years, it says 2.3m people — 7 per cent of the population — have left Venezuela since 2015. On Monday, President Nicolás Maduro put the figure at just 600,000, and his vice-president Delcy Rodríguez said the outflow was “normal”. Outcry over the exodus, she said, was “designed by the Pentagon to justify intervention in Venezuela”. Ministers from a dozen Latin American nations met this week in Quito, the Ecuadorean capital, to discuss the migration crisis. The Organization of American States, which has struggled to reach a consensus on how to confront the Venezuelan government, will try again in Washington on Wednesday, this time focusing specifically on migration. As Venezuelans flee, their country is withering. The economy has almost halved since Mr Maduro came to power in 2013. Oil production and imports have dwindled to their lowest levels since the 1940s, multinational companies have left and foreign embassies have closed or cut back their staff. “Caracas has an eerie feel of a modern city whose inhabitants are permanently on vacation,” said David Smilde, senior fellow at the Washington Office on Latin America. “The buildings, streets and highways are the same as before but with half the traffic, half the pedestrians and less than half of the goods and services on sale.”
Twenty years ago there were 650,000 private companies in Twenty years ago there were 650,000 private companies in Venezuela. Now there are only around 140,000. Now there are only around 140,000
(in part)
510,000 were probably foreign owned so any profit was sent back to the parent nation (the IMF) rather than it stayed in country. The graph below would show that sanctions were the cause rather than the country was being run improperly. That sanctions are not mentioned is a sure sign what is presented is a lie rather than being the truth. This article could be a lot longer.
I can find many articles that support what you are suggesting and they all take the same route that you do. The riots as far back as 1993 are as important to today's events as Cuba's sanctions were 30 years after they started. Iran escaped in 1979 and the first act by the US was an 8 year war using Saddam as their proxy army. Chemical were used by Saddam with the blessing of NATO as that is who supplied the chemicals. In all their cases socialism is blamed for the woes and that ends up being a lie from the start as the sanctions are not mentioned even though the effects of them are recorded in Iraq after Gulf War I stopped and the oil for food program was implemented. Who it affected is also recorded so when those same methods are applied to other nations it is geared to regime change and the plight of the poorest is used as the reason even though their plight is the result of sanctions being applied. Before they revolted any vocal opposition would simply get you disappeared, perhaps your whole family. That part seems to be left out even though it is part of a pattern that is repeated over and over and over again.
Destruction of the local inhabitants in a way that is least noticed yet it removed anybody but the EU invaders from being able to claim to be from there. Industry is pushed using foreign based companies and locals do the grunt work and make the least amount allowed. Shareholders are given as big a profit as can be had using legal and illegal methods at the expense of the health and welfare of the locals. The illegal activities bring in the best profits. Refugees that never come home is a bigger profit of the Banks once they are back in control. War has 1 purpose and it matters very little if is economic rather than a military conflict.
If a nation's ability to feed itself when under a siege is taken away then punishment through an engineered famine is quite easy to arrange, prevent food from being imported and what is there should rot in storage rather than be delivered. Those are the methods that are approved by you Walnut.
So pile on the reds because this is about to include South America starting with why the original white invaders had to import slaves in the first place. That should be fun eh? (but first)
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/08/world/americas/donald-trump-venezuela-military-coup.html
rump Administration Discussed Coup Plans With Rebel Venezuelan Officers
Sept. 8, 2018
The Trump administration held secret meetings with rebellious military officers from Venezuela over the last year to discuss their plans to overthrow President Nicolás Maduro, according to American officials and a former Venezuelan military commander who participated in the talks.
Establishing a clandestine channel with coup plotters in Venezuela was a big gamble for Washington, given its long history of covert intervention across Latin America. Many in the region still deeply resent the United States for backing previous rebellions, coups and plots in countries like Cuba, Nicaragua, Brazil and Chile, and for turning a blind eye to the abuses military regimes committed during the Cold War.
The White House, which declined to answer detailed questions about the talks, said in a statement that it was important to engage in “dialogue with all Venezuelans who demonstrate a desire for democracy” in order to “bring positive change to a country that has suffered so much under Maduro.”
But one of the Venezuelan military commanders involved in the secret talks was hardly an ideal figure to help restore democracy: He is on the American government’s own sanctions list of corrupt officials in Venezuela.
He and other members of the Venezuelan security apparatus have been accused by Washington of a wide range of serious crimes, including torturing critics, jailing hundreds of political prisoners, wounding thousands of civilians, trafficking drugs and collaborating with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, which is considered a terrorist organization by the United States.
American officials eventually decided not to help the plotters, and the coup plans stalled. But the Trump administration’s willingness to meet several times with mutinous officers intent on toppling a president in the hemisphere could backfire politically.
The content is not as important as the filtering method as well as what is left out, such as the 'death squads' that were government enforcers before the revolt back in 1993. The current conditions have the bad parts exaggerated and the original cause for existing sanctions is not mentioned so there is no tie between those two items as being the reason for the strife. Added to that is Canada stands by and 'watches' even though we could buy the oil we import from them rather that the KSA and we have enough grain that bread could be free. We prefer to stand by and watch the suffering caused by the sanctions, we did the same in Iraq and in Libya we we helping to ensure their social programs and the World Bank was back to running the country the way it wanted. What nation wouldn't resist that happening to 85% of the local population? The other 15% have the option, kill or be killed.
https://news.sky.com/story/why-is-venezuela-a-country-in-turmoil-11478533
What's the big problem now?
In Venezuela, inflation is completely out of control.
The International Monetary Fund predicts it will reach a million percent by the end of the year.
The country cannot borrow money on the international markets after defaulting on a whole range of debts.
To make ends meet, it chose to simply print more and more cash - a sure-fire way of creating inflation.
What caused this?
Lots of things over the past 20 years, but largely the country's huge reliance on the value of oil.
It spent, and borrowed, heavily during the good time, then suffered when the price fell.
Successive presidents have also nationalised industries - oil, steel, telecommunications, banking - and sacked experienced staff.
Starved of investment, maintenance and skills, the oil and steel industries are much, much less productive than they were 20 years ago.
Add in a decent slice of corruption, controls over capital and currencies, an inability to borrow from most markets, reluctance of global businesses to invest and then stir in sanctions from America and you get a big problem.
Venezuela simply doesn't generate the money it needs to get by.
So it printed loads instead, hence rampant inflation.
(in part)
The IMF should know as it dictates who gets money and who doesn't, giving more to the 85% that 'they' want meets with retribution, Argentina is an example of how that control works at the political level as the Company farms never missed a beat while the slums in the cities simply got worse and worse as rural people were forced to live in urban areas.
https://www.ft.com/content/55bd21a8-b02e-11e8-8d14-6f049d06439c
Hollowed-out Venezuela counts the cost of crisis
Political isolation and economic collapse have led to an exodus of people and overseas companies
Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email licensing@ft.com to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found here.
https://www.ft.com/content/55bd21a8-b02e-11e8-8d14-6f049d06439c
Four decades ago Venezuelans could fly in and out of Caracas’s Maiquetía airport on Concorde. These days they are leaving the country on foot — walking over the border into Colombia, traipsing down the Andes to Ecuador and Peru or trudging through the Amazon basin to Brazil. As the economy collapses, the Venezuelan exodus “is building to a crisis moment”, the UN has warned. Drawing comparisons with the desperate journeys of Syrians and Africans through the Mediterranean in recent years, it says 2.3m people — 7 per cent of the population — have left Venezuela since 2015. On Monday, President Nicolás Maduro put the figure at just 600,000, and his vice-president Delcy Rodríguez said the outflow was “normal”. Outcry over the exodus, she said, was “designed by the Pentagon to justify intervention in Venezuela”. Ministers from a dozen Latin American nations met this week in Quito, the Ecuadorean capital, to discuss the migration crisis. The Organization of American States, which has struggled to reach a consensus on how to confront the Venezuelan government, will try again in Washington on Wednesday, this time focusing specifically on migration. As Venezuelans flee, their country is withering. The economy has almost halved since Mr Maduro came to power in 2013. Oil production and imports have dwindled to their lowest levels since the 1940s, multinational companies have left and foreign embassies have closed or cut back their staff. “Caracas has an eerie feel of a modern city whose inhabitants are permanently on vacation,” said David Smilde, senior fellow at the Washington Office on Latin America. “The buildings, streets and highways are the same as before but with half the traffic, half the pedestrians and less than half of the goods and services on sale.”
Twenty years ago there were 650,000 private companies in Twenty years ago there were 650,000 private companies in Venezuela. Now there are only around 140,000. Now there are only around 140,000
(in part)
510,000 were probably foreign owned so any profit was sent back to the parent nation (the IMF) rather than it stayed in country. The graph below would show that sanctions were the cause rather than the country was being run improperly. That sanctions are not mentioned is a sure sign what is presented is a lie rather than being the truth. This article could be a lot longer.