The beginning of the end for youtube?

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
4,162
43
48
SW Ontario
If it wasn't for the music company the artist would still be singing in a garage band. The music company makes the artist famous and for that they get a contract and own the copyrights to make it worth it. All the artist has to do is write the songs and perform it.

Not for long. :) That's why the music companies are running scared. With modern technology and social media, music publishing can easily be a cottage industry. The decline in the cost of quality recording equipment makes it affordable for any band to have their own studio. For a couple tens of thousand you can emulate a studio that would have cost hundreds of thousands just a decade ago.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
4,929
21
38
Alberta/N.W.T./Sask/B.C
They first muted half of my 70 youtube vids because of the tunes I had on them,like mick jagger is going to hurt for me useing one of his songs on my videos.They then recanted and I had to agree to let them splash ads on my vids,hope they dont mute my videos again,the music was done to the clips.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Well if you have an insecurely guarded wireless connection (password protected, but weak password) and somebody hacks it and downloads a song, you will have to pay the infringement charge if the IP address gets tracked, because of secondary liability. So basically, a cafe cannot have an open wireless network without huge liability issues or without tracking and identifying the users.

They block all Nazi related content as well. Something YouTube has been doing for quite a few years in Germany.

Packet sniffing software is just illegal. So it is a crime to flip a digital switch on your network adaptor and analyse the contents of information that is being sent to you on your LAN.

There are other strange things with censorship and how it relates to video games, but that isn't really internet related.
If your own router can be set up to record traffic could it not also be 'enhanced' to tell who was connected and their bandwidth usage. That would at least give you a MAC address to give the courts in your defense as you on-site comps would be different connections.

Back in the days of warez the attraction to set up a server was based on clicks to sites that paid users to direct traffic to their site. Without that incentive the sites could not have been financially attractive and storage and bandwidth was never cheap.

If the net is to replace cable TV it will go the same path as satellite tv did. Free after you got the expensive hardware until there was a way to bill it by the month on hardware that was perfected during the 'trial stage'.

Volume by itself would show which PC on your network has downloaded about the right amount of data volume for it to be the pirated stuff. That same MAC address should be the same no matter where that port is used to connect.

Did any of the ones offering money for clicks get busted or was it the ones running the server hardware that got charged?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
I don't mind if this happens on modern music but I would hate to lose nostalgic videos, movies, or other public domain stuff.

If I'm not mistaken, it becomes only public domain 70 years after the author's death for books, so I'd assume it would be something similar for music videos. So we're talking about videos of singers who passed away in 1942 or earlier.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
When did the silent movies ever become public domain? By those rules there should be a cap on allowed profit and then it becomes public domain rather than netting 30,000% profit


Copyrights expire after 29 years.* While renewable, those rights may not have been extended which only requires a $10 fee with the US Copyright office. Speaking of which, my own copyrights that I got for my legal writings will expire in a couple of years. But who cares as they aren't worth anything.



* very easy to lose copyrights ~ for example, go to YT to see the original "Frankenstein" from 1910. That movie was lost for about 80 years and its copyright was not renewed as Edison had long passed away. Thus, it is now public domain.
 

Biohazard

New Member
Apr 24, 2008
11
0
1
N.B.
Shame, I wouldn't have bought half of the crappy music I own if I didn't hear it on Youtube first. This also explains why my friend in Germany has such a hard time viewing videos.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
Fair Use
One of the rights accorded to the owner of copyright is the right to reproduce or to authorize others to reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords. This right is subject to certain limitations found in sections 107 through 118 of the copyright law (title 17, U. S. Code). One of the more important limitations is the doctrine of “fair use.” The doctrine of fair use has developed through a substantial number of court decisions over the years and has been codified in section 107 of the copyright law.
Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

    1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
    2. The nature of the copyrighted work
    3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
    4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work
The distinction between fair use and infringement may be unclear and not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.
The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”



Not that I'm trying to screw the companies as they and the performers are getting paid far and above what would be normal for any other business. I doubt the quality of anything on you-tube would be considered studio quality so nobody is going to reproduce it and be able to make money at it.



I'm still curious about music recorded from a broadcast, most TV corps use watermarks during their broadcasting. Anybody watching video is paying for that service, does that service include having the right to record what you watch so you can view it at a later date or do viewing rights end as soon as the video is over?

For those who do just the music can you not record music from media that you pay a subscription to, in this case adding in satellite radio as a source.



Now if you have a warehouse full of DVD's in boxes matching the original material then that is a pirating case, freely distributing would be advertising for free and the ones watching youtube are most likely there because they do not have the funds to purchase the newer material. How many would go and rent a music DVD and after the week never listen to it again and for that they should only have to pay $0.50. If you want to extend that have a code that would allow a back-up to be made from the master-disk and that code is registered so you can get a copy if you happen to lose your purchased copy (can't be any harder than canceling a lost debit card, try getting one of those reactivated) The best distribution spot would be the local library as that is defined as a public institution rather than a Blockbuster for music and missing material could be tagged to your drivers so stealing would be impossible.


If I knowingly say, "One of these days I'm going to have to have a long talk with that boy." is copy-write infringement just because that phrase is registered to 'Jed Clampet from the TV series 'The Beverly Hillbillies' (1965) and it may not have been the first time that was ever used. That would make the creators of 1984 shudder.

Be interesting to see if a lower limit can be set, publish at 240 lines and there is no delay as the quality is downgraded to phone quality.

In theory what could happen if the OWS crowd adopted the same tactic as the one below. Project video onto the walls of the building they are protesting, complete with sound at the site where the projection lands on.

Could you broadcast something as long a the 'Money Masters' in it's entirety (with their permission) and could you use current news items if used in context and such but as a short clip that would fit the fair use?

Shame, I wouldn't have bought half of the crappy music I own if I didn't hear it on Youtube first. This also explains why my friend in Germany has such a hard time viewing videos.
You could always set up a spare one (or somewhere) and let him remotely control that computer from his place via a program like TightVPN
I haven't found a workaround for content that is in the US and won't be transmitted to Canada, usually there is another copy somewhere in the search engine results if not just pic a different vid.
I usually watch documentaries and after they are about 5ys old I doubt many people care who watches it and there is no demand for it in the black market, if there ever was in the first place.

Looks like a lot of people will be looping legal downloads rather than illegal music. 12hrs of Admiralty Law followed by 5 languages in 30 days or less if you leave out the cuss words. How long before the boycott ruins the current industry? That would require just clicking on videos other than music and listen to music via another media. Youtube and others would see the public can police themselves, a little too well as music just too a 90% cut in revenues or people would just pass them by for the free stuff that actually supplied them with some usable tools in their daily life.
 
Last edited:

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
17,545
120
63
52
Well if you have an insecurely guarded wireless connection (password protected, but weak password) and somebody hacks it and downloads a song, you will have to pay the infringement charge if the IP address gets tracked, because of secondary liability. So basically, a cafe cannot have an open wireless network without huge liability issues or without tracking and identifying the users.

They block all Nazi related content as well. Something YouTube has been doing for quite a few years in Germany.

Packet sniffing software is just illegal. So it is a crime to flip a digital switch on your network adaptor and analyse the contents of information that is being sent to you on your LAN.

There are other strange things with censorship and how it relates to video games, but that isn't really internet related.

You should create a new thread for this. It would be an interesting thread to read for sure.:)
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
96
48
USA
Packet sniffing software is just illegal. So it is a crime to flip a digital switch on your network adaptor and analyse the contents of information that is being sent to you on your LAN.
.

Are you sure that is illegal?
 

MapleOne

Worlds greatest Dad'n
Jul 19, 2010
145
0
16
Kitchener, Ontario
www.MapleOne.com
There will always be another site, if Google takes down music videos someone else will put up a site to handle them. Might not be legal but I'm sure there are people out there who will spot an opportunity and host it in some country where they cannot be touched.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
12,399
1,369
113
60
Alberta
Copyrights expire after 29 years.* While renewable, those rights may not have been extended which only requires a $10 fee with the US Copyright office. Speaking of which, my own copyrights that I got for my legal writings will expire in a couple of years. But who cares as they aren't worth anything.

* very easy to lose copyrights ~ for example, go to YT to see the original "Frankenstein" from 1910. That movie was lost for about 80 years and its copyright was not renewed as Edison had long passed away. Thus, it is now public domain.

Maybe a bit off topic, but you sparked my interest.

From what I have read Edeson was the Cinematographer, not the copyright holder of Frankenstein.

Wouldn't it have been Warner Bros who held copyright on that film?
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
7,940
0
36
Edson, AB
No doubt what we will see is all the websites moving servers to countries like Mongolia or Chad that have no laws governing the internet and where US copyright laws are not applicable. This of course brings into play how the US govt is now trying to prosecute people for breaking its laws outside of their jurisdiction (like the guy from England fighting extradition for operating a site in the UK that breeches US law). The fact is until the music/movie industry gives up these sites will keep moving locales so they are not breaking any law and lots of us will keep on downloading.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
66
48
Minnesota: Gopher State
Maybe a bit off topic, but you sparked my interest.

From what I have read Edeson was the Cinematographer, not the copyright holder of Frankenstein.

Wouldn't it have been Warner Bros who held copyright on that film?



"Frankenstein" [1910]:

Frankenstein (1910) - Full Movie - YouTube


It appears the Edison company had the copyright. Therefore, since the movie was lost for 80 years it is no surprise why the copyright was not renewed. The Edison company, I believe, still existed until 1981 or so and was converted into a museum. Now, if I recall correctly, there had been a fire and some of Edison's stuff had been lost. Therefore, we do not know how much of his work was preserved. So sad to think that his priceless work could vanish just like that.

Later on ......

Ah, found something interesting:

Thomas Edison, Intellectual Property and the Recording Industry

...
all of the old Edison releases were public domain, and there wasn't an active trademark on the Edison name for sound recordings. The Edison interests in NAPC started their own marketing organization once NAPC was done away with, and Edison's legitimate line of succession goes to this day to the McGraw-Edison Corporation - which still exists, and still owns the Edison trademark on a number of kitchen and household appliances...although, curiously, none on anything phonographic. Those trademarks were allowed to expire after their last renewals, which were around 30-35 years ago.








Evidently, Edison did not bother to renew his trademarks on a lot of things. No wonder "Frankenstein" is public domain.