Thank you Stephen Harper

Praxius

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Obviously, you're set more to a speed of flailing your arms and thumping your chest from 10,000 miles away as direct intervention.

Good on ya

.... Right.


17,514km to be exact. Or if you prefer the American version, 10 882.6951 miles.

Sure you did... Too bad for those families of the (Australian) victims on the plane.

Maybe you can get a protest sign together demanding the the Aussie gvt pass a law that no foreign gvt be allowed to kill it's citizens... They may get a fine or something otherwise

Way to focus on the task at hand and what was said / meant. I expected better trolling from you.

Never referred to Sydney as the capitol, that's all you bud

Already figured that would be your response, which leads to the question "Why Sydney?"

Why that particular location and not Melbourne, Perth, Darwin, etc.??

You'd think if you wanted to occupy a specific area of a country, you'd generally go for the head of the snake and go for the capital rather than some random city. That's just poor planning on your part. You'd make a bad Warlord.
 

Colpy

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Thank you Stephen Harper!



Global economy to suffer as Putin quits G20 early

Dispute between the West and Russia will act as a significant drag on growth for years

David Cameron may have hailed the G20 meetings in Brisbane over the weekend as a success for the global economy. But in reality, the gathering of the world’s most powerful leaders will be remembered only for the abrupt departure of President Vladimir Putin.

The Russian leader had probably already decided before even arriving in Australia to take an early flight home and dispense with the pleasantries of the end-of-summit dinner. Mr Cameron’s warning that the Kremlin was at a “crossroads” with the West over its alleged intervention in Ukraine, along with Canadian prime minister Stephen Harper’s blunt message for Russia to get out of its neighbouring former client state, will more than likely have stiffened Mr Putin’s resolve to not back down an inch.

In fact, his glib response to these threats and warnings was to complain about a lack of sleep, suggesting that he is preparing to dig in over his support for pro-Russian separatists around Donetsk.

Certainly, if the objective is to make Mr Putin appear isolated on the world stage in order to make him less popular at home, it isn’t working and also shows a profound misunderstanding of the Russian mind-set. A nation that endured the bloodbath of Stalingrad and almost half a century of economic isolation following the end of the Second World War is unlikely to blink first in its current standoff with the West. Indeed, Mr Putin’s popularity ratings at home have never been higher.

The danger for the global economy is that the dispute between the West and Russia, which is now being widely described as a new Cold War, will act as a significant drag on growth for years to come. It is certainly unlikely that the measures agreed on by the G20 to boost global gross domestic product (GDP) by 2pc, or £1.25 trillion, by 2018 will be achievable for as long as a country the size of Russia - the world’s eighth largest economy - is kept out in the cold.

Although a cocktail of economic sanctions and falling oil prices has already started to squeeze Russia’s economy hard, the West has also increasingly started to feel the pain of isolating Moscow. The brunt of a prolonged economic war with Russia is being felt by Europe and the UK, not the US. European trade with Russia has almost quadrupled over the past decade to around $335bn and many companies now view the country as one of their fastest growing and most important export markets. Exports to Russia are thought to have accounted for 0.6pc of Europe’s GDP before the current round of sanctions was imposed.

Europe finds itself at the centre of a bitter dispute with Russia at a time when its own economic edifice begins to crumble. Deflation and stagnated growth make European countries, excluding Britain and Germany, stand out as the real sick men of the G20. Arguably, Europe needs Russian petro-dollars more the Russia needs the dysfunctional economic bloc of 27 nations who themselves are squabbling over whether to stay together.

At a time when most European countries should really be focusing on cutting budget deficits and trimming state spending, the threat of Russia means that outlays on defence have to be maintained and in some cases increased. Without the support of the US, Europe’s underfunded and outgunned armed forces are no match for Russia, even if its military machine is a shadow of the jackbooted horde seen parading on Red Square during the Communist era.

Trade sanctions and restrictions on individuals and financial transactions, the main targets of current sanctions, have had only a limited impact on Russia so far. Latest figures show that the Russian economy has grown by 0.7pc in the third quarter year-on-year ahead of the Bank of Russia’s forecast for 0.3pc overall growth. Most of the impact to the economy and the slump in the rouble has been the product of falling oil prices.

Indeed, the West’s most powerful economic weapon to force Mr Putin to the table is largely out of its own control. The curious inaction of the Organisation of Petroleum Exporting Countries (Opec) to not cut production to stem a 28pc slide in oil prices since June will arguably have done more to spook Mr Putin than any other form of reprimand doled out by G20 leaders Down Under. Russia depends on oil and gas receipts for 45pc of its budget revenues and cannot sustain prices below $100 per barrel for long.

Even so, Mr Putin said during the G20 that his country was even prepared to sustain a “catastrophic” fall in the price of crude. His remarks may also explain why Russia has been stockpiling gold in the vaults of its central bank this year, accumulating an estimated 1,150 tonnes of the precious metal. However, even if Saudi Arabia – the only member of the G20 to also be part of Opec – were supporting a general strategy to apply economic pressure on Russia by artificially reducing the price of oil, it would be difficult to maintain this strategy for long.

Given these uncertainties, I doubt Mr Putin will have lost too much sleep over his public defenestration at the G20 on his flight home.

The end of Opec
Saudi Arabia’s Prince Salman bin Abdulaziz al-Saud was seen locked in conversation with Vladimir Putin during the G20. It is thought that both countries support the establishment of a new global energy body that would sit above both Opec and the International Energy Agency.

A report in the Australian press suggested the new body could be set up as part of a wider overhaul of global energy markets to ensure reliable supplies of oil and gas and also more transparency on prices.

For such an organisation to work, it would have to include the power to regulate physical supply of crude oil and natural gas to world markets. At present, only Opec as a collective group wields such power and all of its 12 members may be reluctant to give up their biggest bargaining chip.

However, if the G20 were to form a new overarching energy body, it could help to bridge the interests of Opec’s petrodollar states and the next generation of major producers such as the US who would like to strike a balance between lower average prices and security of supply.

Global economy to suffer as Putin quits G20 early - Telegraph

Get off your knees.

Or are you in Putin's camp?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-provoking-russia-new-cold-war-spies-deported
 
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captain morgan

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.... Right.


17,514km to be exact. Or if you prefer the American version, 10 882.6951 miles.

The farther the better, eh?

As expected, you heroes get so much braver as the distances get larger.


Way to focus on the task at hand and what was said / meant. I expected better trolling from you.

Sorry there, I simply took your lead on assessing the 'action' component based on the ole what-did-they-achieve-when-they-were-face-to-face metric that you assess all others actions

Already figured that would be your response, which leads to the question "Why Sydney?"

Why that particular location and not Melbourne, Perth, Darwin, etc.??

You'd think if you wanted to occupy a specific area of a country, you'd generally go for the head of the snake and go for the capital rather than some random city. That's just poor planning on your part. You'd make a bad Warlord.

No point in occupying butt-fukk nowhere now, is there?
 

Praxius

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The farther the better, eh?

As expected, you heroes get so much braver as the distances get larger.

Not exactly sure what distance has to do with anything. My comments in these forums have remained the same as they did when I lived in Canada. In fact, I've probably become more tame over the years than what I used to be.

Either way, someone's distance from something is irrelevant.

Do you expect me to believe Harper was somehow brave by saying this little quip to Putin's face?

Exactly what risks did he face by doing this?

Did you expect Putin to Judo Chop him to unconsciousness?


He was as safe as could be with no risk at all to try and be a smart azz.

But perhaps you're right about one thing, "Heroes get so much braver as the distances gets larger".... which works in reverse I suppose. As the distance gets shorter, the braveness becomes less..... which would explain why Harper hid in the closet. I suppose if the shooter got into the room, Harper would have crawled into the vacuum bag.

Sorry there, I simply took your lead on assessing the 'action' component based on the ole what-did-they-achieve-when-they-were-face-to-face metric that you assess all others actions

And yet, here you are being the one trivializing and making jokes over the shooting down of the airliner, not me.

In regards to "Action" based on your previous comment, Protesting is a waste of time and accomplishes nothing. My position on that has been clearly explained during my time in these forums. It is not an "Action" but more of a physical exercise.

No point in occupying butt-fukk nowhere now, is there?

Indeed, which is why you occupy the Capital of a nation which is a lot more than butt-fukk nowhere. Sydney was probably your go-to locale because it's the only place you know of in Australia because of pictures of the Opera House.

Very Worldly of you.
 

Corduroy

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Feb 9, 2011
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Membership in the Putin camps seems to shift with who can be criticized by proxy. Just a few months ago people were comparing shirtless Putin with mom-jeans Obama. Now the Republican Putin-humping squad has decamped and the Harper-haters have rolled in.

Of all the people to do it, Canada's probably the best choice to tell off Putin. They probably all sat around and Obama was like "I can't do it because my threats might seem real" and Germany was like "we actually rely on Russian energy to keep the European economy going" and so dauntless Steve Harper pulled on his hockey jersey and strode up to the podium "Mr. Putin, take off, eh". And the wall came tumbling down.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Membership in the Putin camps seems to shift with who can be criticized by proxy. Just a few months ago people were comparing shirtless Putin with mom-jeans Obama. Now the Republican Putin-humping squad has decamped and the Harper-haters have rolled in.

Of all the people to do it, Canada's probably the best choice to tell off Putin. They probably all sat around and Obama was like "I can't do it because my threats might seem real" and Germany was like "we actually rely on Russian energy to keep the European economy going" and so dauntless Steve Harper pulled on his hockey jersey and strode up to the podium "Mr. Putin, take off, eh". And the wall came tumbling down.

Wow, Putin is a Rohrschach test!
 

captain morgan

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Do you expect me to believe Harper was somehow brave by saying this little quip to Putin's face?


Apparently he had far bigger balls then the all the other delegates combined.

You can judge from there

Exactly what risks did he face by doing this?


Exactly, no risk above and beyond what anyone else faced, assuming you have a spine that is.

Did you expect Putin to Judo Chop him to unconsciousness?


Don't know where this comes from. Perhaps it was the fear that others had at the event?

He was as safe as could be with no risk at all to try and be a smart azz.


See above... That very same sentiment applied to the Australian leader, who I might remind you, had a number of his citizens killed recently.

But perhaps you're right about one thing, "Heroes get so much braver as the distances gets larger"....


That is the distinct feeling that I am left with upon reviewing your offhanded commentary

which works in reverse I suppose. As the distance gets shorter, the braveness becomes less..... which would explain why Harper hid in the closet. I suppose if the shooter got into the room, Harper would have crawled into the vacuum bag.


Based on the silence of the various national leaders at that event, I'd say that is a fair observation... With one notable exception, that is

And yet, here you are being the one trivializing and making jokes over the shooting down of the airliner, not me.


Back up the bus there champ... You made a big deal about delivering real, tangible actions... You'd think that you would be upfront and the first to demand such relative to that event.

So, which is it?.. .One set of standards for Harper and another for Abbot and yourself?

In regards to "Action" based on your previous comment, Protesting is a waste of time and accomplishes nothing.

For all of your contradictory statements, I'm thinking that protesting is a good fit for you

Indeed, which is why you occupy the Capital of a nation which is a lot more than butt-fukk nowhere. Sydney was probably your go-to locale because it's the only place you know of in Australia because of pictures of the Opera House.


Ummmm, you were the one that initially stated that I confused the capital city of Australia and later followed it up with the question of why Sydney... FYI - an 'occupation' by a foreign entity is not the same as a bunch of livin-in-mommas-basement-playin-xbox protestors.

I'll let you think on that for a moment


Very Worldly of you.

See above comment.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Harper's the man now. I calculate if he takes off his shirt and grabs a hunting rifle, all the Conservatives'll have a wargasm, and Canada will hurl its military might into. . .

being three percent of whatever the Yanks choose to do, along with the Brits (5%), the Aussies (2%), a Polish water truck, six German MPs, a Japanese hospital ship, and three Czech sensitivity trainers.
 

Praxius

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Membership in the Putin camps seems to shift with who can be criticized by proxy. Just a few months ago people were comparing shirtless Putin with mom-jeans Obama. Now the Republican Putin-humping squad has decamped and the Harper-haters have rolled in.

Of all the people to do it, Canada's probably the best choice to tell off Putin. They probably all sat around and Obama was like "I can't do it because my threats might seem real" and Germany was like "we actually rely on Russian energy to keep the European economy going" and so dauntless Steve Harper pulled on his hockey jersey and strode up to the podium "Mr. Putin, take off, eh". And the wall came tumbling down.

The wall huh?

People still seem to have this belief that Harper pulled off some magical thing that will change the world forever.

Despite my views towards Harper, if it was Justin or Tom saying the same thing, my reaction would remain the same. It accomplished nothing and was neither the time or the place.

And in regards to the US not wanting to do it for this reason or Germany not doing it for that reason, People seem to think that Canada was in some good position to have Harper toss his little quip like it'd make a difference, when in reality, it didn't make a difference and the other fact is that Russian is just a hop, skip and a jump across the arctic from Canada. The only thing this will ever accomplish is for Putin to send more planes and ships along the border to in-turn send our ships and planes to intercept them more than before.

What does that do?

Waste money and resources that could go towards more important things.

It's a distraction.

Apparently he had far bigger balls then the all the other delegates combined.

You can judge from there

Again with the distance thing, as if you being.... what, a few hundred KM's away from Ottawa, somehow makes you more of an expert?

Yeah, he had big balls to say what he did to Putin in a secure and safe location with zero chance of any harm or consequence coming to him, with the possible prospect of getting some pats on the back from his schoolyard buddies. He's my hero.

Exactly, no risk above and beyond what anyone else faced, assuming you have a spine that is.

Your level of "Risk" that requires a spine seems to have the bar set real low.

See above... That very same sentiment applied to the Australian leader, who I might remind you, had a number of his citizens killed recently.

As I have already stated and repeated a couple of times, He and Australia were hosting the event and had openly stated himself that he wanted to keep the G20 on track with the topics that related to the G20. Because he stuck to that, I have to give him respect in that department as it shows a level of professionalism one other person seems to lack.

And you don't need to remind me about "a number of his citizens killed recently" as I'm the one who originally brought it up in this thread.

Learn to read better.

That is the distinct feeling that I am left with upon reviewing your offhanded commentary

Pot meet kettle.

Based on the silence of the various national leaders at that event, I'd say that is a fair observation... With one notable exception, that is

Which exception would that be? The Vacuum Bag?

And I'll repeat: The G20 event was meant for G20 related matters and discussions, not the Ukraine conflict, which is why everybody "was silent" with the exception of one person. That shows a level of professionalism from everybody else and the unprofessional, opportunistic grab for votes in an upcoming election by one.

Back up the bus there champ... You made a big deal about delivering real, tangible actions... You'd think that you would be upfront and the first to demand such relative to that event.

So, which is it?.. .One set of standards for Harper and another for Abbot and yourself?

Allow me to re-quote something I've already stated a couple of times already, as you seem to have some memory problems:

".... there's a time and a place..."

For all of your contradictory statements, I'm thinking that protesting is a good fit for you

If you say so. I have yet to contradict myself.

I prefer Action over mere Words..... I prefer action that produces results, and Protesting never produces results except for people getting arrested, shops being smashed and 15 seconds of fame in the news...... nothing of which does anything for whatever is being protested.

Nothing contradictory in any of that, though I wouldn't expect you to understand that.

Ummmm, you were the one that initially stated that I confused the capital city of Australia and later followed it up with the question of why Sydney. FYI - an 'occupation' by a foreign entity is not the same as a bunch of livin-in-mommas-basement-playin-xbox protestors.

I'll let you think on that for a moment

No need to think about it at all. You're just trying to further deflect the conversation onto more tangents to try and attempt to confuse the situation in a manner you think will eventually lead to you winning some sort of pointless argument, therefore, I won't continue down this tangent as it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
 

Colpy

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The wall huh?

People still seem to have this belief that Harper pulled off some magical thing that will change the world forever.

Despite my views towards Harper, if it was Justin or Tom saying the same thing, my reaction would remain the same. It accomplished nothing and was neither the time or the place.

And in regards to the US not wanting to do it for this reason or Germany not doing it for that reason, People seem to think that Canada was in some good position to have Harper toss his little quip like it'd make a difference, when in reality, it didn't make a difference and the other fact is that Russian is just a hop, skip and a jump across the arctic from Canada. The only thing this will ever accomplish is for Putin to send more planes and ships along the border to in-turn send our ships and planes to intercept them more than before.

What does that do?

Waste money and resources that could go towards more important things.

It's a distraction.

Yeah....because appeasement works so well in containing aggressive tyrants.

Putin IS coming for the Arctic. He has said so.

Nato put on high alert after Putin looks to Arctic for Russia's next move | World | News | Daily Express

Harper needs to speak harshly, to make it clear we will not stand by and watch the psycho Putin gobble up one square inch of Canada's sovereign territory.

You don't do that by being polite.
 

WLDB

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Someone had to say it. I agree with him on that. Instead of putting on an obviously fake act by pretending all the leaders get along when together they should instead tell the truth. A lot more interesting to hear something like that than to see them play dress up for photo-ops.
 

Praxius

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Yeah....because appeasement works so well in containing aggressive tyrants.

Putin IS coming for the Arctic. He has said so.

Nato put on high alert after Putin looks to Arctic for Russia's next move | World | News | Daily Express

Harper needs to speak harshly, to make it clear we will not stand by and watch the psycho Putin gobble up one square inch of Canada's sovereign territory.

You don't do that by being polite.

I never said he had to be polite, and yes, Russia does want a chunk of the resources in the Arctic like everybody else. Standing ground and holding fast regarding the arctic is more valid than ignoring it and focusing on a conflict that has no relation with Canada at all. (at least no relation in comparison with other conflicts in the world)

If he wanted to look tough in front of Putin, he should have made a trivial quip about the Arctic than Ukraine. But again, there's a time and place and the G20 wasn't the time and place to quibble over military action and stunts.
 

darkbeaver

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Harper's the man now. I calculate if he takes off his shirt and grabs a hunting rifle, all the Conservatives'll have a wargasm, and Canada will hurl its military might into. . .

being three percent of whatever the Yanks choose to do, along with the Brits (5%), the Aussies (2%), a Polish water truck, six German MPs, a Japanese hospital ship, and three Czech sensitivity trainers.

Don't make us tow our submarine fleet into position off your shores.
 

captain morgan

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The wall huh?

People still seem to have this belief that Harper pulled off some magical thing that will change the world forever.

Despite my views towards Harper, if it was Justin or Tom saying the same thing, my reaction would remain the same. It accomplished nothing and was neither the time or the place.

And in regards to the US not wanting to do it for this reason or Germany not doing it for that reason, People seem to think that Canada was in some good position to have Harper toss his little quip like it'd make a difference, when in reality, it didn't make a difference and the other fact is that Russian is just a hop, skip and a jump across the arctic from Canada. The only thing this will ever accomplish is for Putin to send more planes and ships along the border to in-turn send our ships and planes to intercept them more than before.

What does that do?

Waste money and resources that could go towards more important things.

It's a distraction.



Again with the distance thing, as if you being.... what, a few hundred KM's away from Ottawa, somehow makes you more of an expert?

Yeah, he had big balls to say what he did to Putin in a secure and safe location with zero chance of any harm or consequence coming to him, with the possible prospect of getting some pats on the back from his schoolyard buddies. He's my hero.



Your level of "Risk" that requires a spine seems to have the bar set real low.



As I have already stated and repeated a couple of times, He and Australia were hosting the event and had openly stated himself that he wanted to keep the G20 on track with the topics that related to the G20. Because he stuck to that, I have to give him respect in that department as it shows a level of professionalism one other person seems to lack.

And you don't need to remind me about "a number of his citizens killed recently" as I'm the one who originally brought it up in this thread.

Learn to read better.



Pot meet kettle.



Which exception would that be? The Vacuum Bag?

And I'll repeat: The G20 event was meant for G20 related matters and discussions, not the Ukraine conflict, which is why everybody "was silent" with the exception of one person. That shows a level of professionalism from everybody else and the unprofessional, opportunistic grab for votes in an upcoming election by one.



Allow me to re-quote something I've already stated a couple of times already, as you seem to have some memory problems:

".... there's a time and a place..."



If you say so. I have yet to contradict myself.

I prefer Action over mere Words..... I prefer action that produces results, and Protesting never produces results except for people getting arrested, shops being smashed and 15 seconds of fame in the news...... nothing of which does anything for whatever is being protested.

Nothing contradictory in any of that, though I wouldn't expect you to understand that.



No need to think about it at all. You're just trying to further deflect the conversation onto more tangents to try and attempt to confuse the situation in a manner you think will eventually lead to you winning some sort of pointless argument, therefore, I won't continue down this tangent as it's irrelevant to the topic at hand.


So much backtracking and excuses... Too much effort to dissect this over and over, you see what you want and justify accordingly

Send me a postcard from the next sit-in... I assume that you'll be the one leading the group in a tearful version of kumbaya.
 

peoplesadvocate

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darkbeaver

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Put a cannon on those subs in the Edmonton Mall and you're all set.

There's no point in towing the subs to Edmonton unless we have assurances the cannon in the Mall won't be turned against our vessels,
you know them westerners are itchin to leave the Confederation.

heh


btw, what d!ckhead bought those fukkin' things anyway? wasn't it cretin?

I can't remember it's blunder # 7 million and forty two at least, what I'd like to know is why we've been unable to scrap the junk. If we're going to waste the money anyway wouldn't it be more efficcient to just burn it, at least there'd be lots of smoke.
 

Praxius

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So much backtracking and excuses... Too much effort to dissect this over and over, you see what you want and justify accordingly

Send me a postcard from the next sit-in... I assume that you'll be the one leading the group in a tearful version of kumbaya.

Funny, I didn't know Facts and Personal Opinions amounted to excuses.

Guess these forums are one big excuse for some people then.

Regardless, my position has been stated more than once and explained in detail. All you're doing is running around in circles to go over what has already been stated as if it wasn't... and then decide to call it quits to try and seem like the better man.

You're only quitting because you can't get me to fault on my position and quitting because I called you out on your irrelevant tangents.

By the way, I don't send postcards..... now off you go and make another tangent about postcards.

There's no point in towing the subs to Edmonton unless we have assurances the cannon in the Mall won't be turned against our vessels,
you know them westerners are itchin to leave the Confederation.

I meant put a cannon on each of these subs:


:p They at least work last I heard.

I can't remember it's blunder # 7 million and forty two at least, what I'd like to know is why we've been unable to scrap the junk. If we're going to waste the money anyway wouldn't it be more efficcient to just burn it, at least there'd be lots of smoke.

And wouldn't have had a sailor die in the process.
 

captain morgan

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Don't make us tow our submarine fleet into position off your shores.

Bloody hilarious DB... I'm still smiling reading that

Funny, I didn't know Facts and Personal Opinions amounted to excuses.


Whatever helps you sleep at night... Seems that you have no lack of retractions and double standards in your arsenal of excuses