they are refered to as militia whether you like it or not.
I did not term them militia, you tool.
I did not term them militia, you tool.
Terrorist Training Camp in New York
- Thread starter Curiosity
- Start date
OK I surprise myself with my thoughts
I think "militia" as described by Caracal would be an honorable way (even if illegal) to remove the cancer....
If it were up to me, I would use very underhanded and probably illegal ways to rid the country of these people - ways which could not be traced back to an active force....
Poison in their water.... chemical toxins in their food chain....delivery of infectious disease.....denial of basic rights such as work and receipt of mail/money from any source operated by the government.....denial of utility systems....no power...no water....no communications.... no GPS devices - all blocked.....
Ugly isn't it? Makes milita or recognized military retaliation seem above board and honest.
Guns are certainly more honorable than my thoughts about this.
I shame myself.
I think "militia" as described by Caracal would be an honorable way (even if illegal) to remove the cancer....
If it were up to me, I would use very underhanded and probably illegal ways to rid the country of these people - ways which could not be traced back to an active force....
Poison in their water.... chemical toxins in their food chain....delivery of infectious disease.....denial of basic rights such as work and receipt of mail/money from any source operated by the government.....denial of utility systems....no power...no water....no communications.... no GPS devices - all blocked.....
Ugly isn't it? Makes milita or recognized military retaliation seem above board and honest.
Guns are certainly more honorable than my thoughts about this.
I shame myself.
Re: RE: Terrorist Training Ca
The US doesn't act on it's current militias?
Wacco? Idaho? Montana? Philidelphia?
Do those four sieges ring a bell?
If they are planning an attack... go in and get them and eradicate them. Wipe them off the planet.
the caracal kid said:
The US doesn't act on it's current militias?
Wacco? Idaho? Montana? Philidelphia?
Do those four sieges ring a bell?
If they are planning an attack... go in and get them and eradicate them. Wipe them off the planet.
yes eagle, that is what i said. the government should and does monitor these groups and acts when there is risk.
The question is of threshold. When should the govenment move against one of these militias? So long as they are not actively planning a specific attack against the US they are not violating the laws, yet they can become quite a threat. Move too soon, it is a violation of rights, move too late and you face "homeland terrorism".
I can understand your "get them" position, but we need to clearly define what line they need to cross before they are flushed out.
Do you remember when the canadian government almost sold one of the old nuclear shelters to a group similar to the US militias? Imagine if that standoff would have come to be?
The question is of threshold. When should the govenment move against one of these militias? So long as they are not actively planning a specific attack against the US they are not violating the laws, yet they can become quite a threat. Move too soon, it is a violation of rights, move too late and you face "homeland terrorism".
I can understand your "get them" position, but we need to clearly define what line they need to cross before they are flushed out.
Do you remember when the canadian government almost sold one of the old nuclear shelters to a group similar to the US militias? Imagine if that standoff would have come to be?
I do not believe that Dave Koresh was planning an open assault on the US either.
The Minutemen in Montana weren't.
The group in Philly had a freaking bomb dropped on their house before the cops moved in.
So if they are spouting rhetoric and training with weapons their days are numbered and no one will say a thing except whinning liberals.
Although the US Liberals were silent when the Clinton Administration sent the ATF into Waaco and burned the place to the ground with women and children inside. But he was a Democrat and that is OK by their book.
The Minutemen in Montana weren't.
The group in Philly had a freaking bomb dropped on their house before the cops moved in.
So if they are spouting rhetoric and training with weapons their days are numbered and no one will say a thing except whinning liberals.
Although the US Liberals were silent when the Clinton Administration sent the ATF into Waaco and burned the place to the ground with women and children inside. But he was a Democrat and that is OK by their book.
thats the funny thing about politics.
two different leaders could make the same decision under essentially the same scenario and for no reason other than "party" one would be a "upholder of the American people" and the other "a tyrant".
two different leaders could make the same decision under essentially the same scenario and for no reason other than "party" one would be a "upholder of the American people" and the other "a tyrant".
RE: Terrorist Training Ca
So we base everything upon what it is deemed do we? If they have the word "militia" in their title, they must be right? The truth is those groups are nothing more than a bunch of gun owners as I pointed out. A terrorist cell operating in New York hardly fits in with Jethro and Billy-Bob Hillbilly from the Ozarks, who're gonna "git dem some colour'd folk". That's like classifing the kid who steals a chocolate bar form the corner store and a serial rapist, both as criminals. It's intellectually bankrupt. I have no argument that these groups exist in the states, but comparing them to a potential terrorist cell in NY is sheer folly.
P.S. I love you Caracal, you're my reason for getting up in the morning :love4:
So we base everything upon what it is deemed do we? If they have the word "militia" in their title, they must be right? The truth is those groups are nothing more than a bunch of gun owners as I pointed out. A terrorist cell operating in New York hardly fits in with Jethro and Billy-Bob Hillbilly from the Ozarks, who're gonna "git dem some colour'd folk". That's like classifing the kid who steals a chocolate bar form the corner store and a serial rapist, both as criminals. It's intellectually bankrupt. I have no argument that these groups exist in the states, but comparing them to a potential terrorist cell in NY is sheer folly.
P.S. I love you Caracal, you're my reason for getting up in the morning :love4:
Intelligence organizations refer to them as militias. The government refers to them as militias. As for "billy bob", perhaps you should actually do some research for yourself rather than blowing hot air all the time! Here is a clue for you, the same groups that get refered to as "militias" have been identified as organizing "terrorist activities". Perhaps it is only your own ignorance and stereotyping that is the problem, for I would hate to think that this level of incompitence is being taught to you somewhere.
RE: Terrorist Training Ca
So you got all that knowledge from working with the NSA, CIA, and FBI, but not being a part of them, just like with the Airborne right? Now, i'm no expert on the U.S. Government, but, if something is seen as a threat to national security, they usually have a tendancy of blowing it up. Why would they leave these "super secret ninja militia terrorist bombing squads of justice for all" alone if they were planning some malicious purpose? Better yet, if they can name individuals, know where they operatate, and how they're set up, why would they not go in and shut them down if they were a threat as you suggest? You claim I blow hot air, however i've done nothing but state facts and my own observations on these forums. You on the other hand offer "insight" gleaned (as you claim) from being everywhere first hand and being this holier-than-thou individual. You deem me incompitent, yet all i've done is state blatant observations that directly contradict the claims and statements you make. I am no expert on any one situation, but I do know I have fairly extensive knowledge if the fields I discuss. I wouldn't wade in to a conversation that I know little or nothing about. Does that mean i'm always right? No, of course not.
So you got all that knowledge from working with the NSA, CIA, and FBI, but not being a part of them, just like with the Airborne right? Now, i'm no expert on the U.S. Government, but, if something is seen as a threat to national security, they usually have a tendancy of blowing it up. Why would they leave these "super secret ninja militia terrorist bombing squads of justice for all" alone if they were planning some malicious purpose? Better yet, if they can name individuals, know where they operatate, and how they're set up, why would they not go in and shut them down if they were a threat as you suggest? You claim I blow hot air, however i've done nothing but state facts and my own observations on these forums. You on the other hand offer "insight" gleaned (as you claim) from being everywhere first hand and being this holier-than-thou individual. You deem me incompitent, yet all i've done is state blatant observations that directly contradict the claims and statements you make. I am no expert on any one situation, but I do know I have fairly extensive knowledge if the fields I discuss. I wouldn't wade in to a conversation that I know little or nothing about. Does that mean i'm always right? No, of course not.
I never claimed to be a part of any US agencies. You are going way beyond anything I have said there. If you have a personal axe to grind with me because of my position on the airborne based on my experience with them, fine, but don't use that as some basis to claim I have stated anything I have not. Perhaps you would prefer to have it out in "wreck beach" and clear the air?
I provided you one link that discussed "militias" as militias. I can provide more if you want. Ask the US government why they don't take down potential threats. Ask them why they don't always reveal their actions until well after the fact.
I provided you one link that discussed "militias" as militias. I can provide more if you want. Ask the US government why they don't take down potential threats. Ask them why they don't always reveal their actions until well after the fact.
RE: Terrorist Training Ca
I never said you were a part of a Government agency. I was being facetious. I don't have a personal axe to grind with you, in fact I could care less about what you think. I just don't want you posting dribble that is so one-sided and often erroneous for others to see in the event someone believes it. Especially when it comes to an organization I am a part of. With regard to the Airborne again, I believe Sassy has already pointed out that you clearly had no affiliation with that unit, let alone the military. I believe I asked you twice already what your role was both with the Airborne and the military and you've yet to answer me. If you'll evade a simple question like that, how can anyone place merit in anything you say?
As for your link, I take anything I read on the internet with a grain of salt. I know what a militia is, and I know what a gun club is. I know what a terrorist cell is and what a group of hillbillys are. Perhaps it's maturity? Or maybe just knowing fact from fiction?
I never said you were a part of a Government agency. I was being facetious. I don't have a personal axe to grind with you, in fact I could care less about what you think. I just don't want you posting dribble that is so one-sided and often erroneous for others to see in the event someone believes it. Especially when it comes to an organization I am a part of. With regard to the Airborne again, I believe Sassy has already pointed out that you clearly had no affiliation with that unit, let alone the military. I believe I asked you twice already what your role was both with the Airborne and the military and you've yet to answer me. If you'll evade a simple question like that, how can anyone place merit in anything you say?
As for your link, I take anything I read on the internet with a grain of salt. I know what a militia is, and I know what a gun club is. I know what a terrorist cell is and what a group of hillbillys are. Perhaps it's maturity? Or maybe just knowing fact from fiction?
well then I should mail you real documentation.
My time spent with the CF (and the subset of that spent with the airborne) is my business. It doesn't matter to me either if you beleive me or not. I know the truth and I have no reason to mislead you or anybody else on the matter. I am free to comment on the CF because of my previous involvement with it.
You like to constantly post emotional yet valueless terms such as "dribble" simply becuase you disagree. Perhaps you would prefer if I refer to your positions in the same manner, since they are highly questionable. In this thread for example, if you are not aware of the common terminology of paramilitary groups in the US it would be wiser to educate yourself rather than sounding like a horse's backend. I certianly hope you don't go off to another country with the CF with that attitude for your own sake, as well as others.
My time spent with the CF (and the subset of that spent with the airborne) is my business. It doesn't matter to me either if you beleive me or not. I know the truth and I have no reason to mislead you or anybody else on the matter. I am free to comment on the CF because of my previous involvement with it.
You like to constantly post emotional yet valueless terms such as "dribble" simply becuase you disagree. Perhaps you would prefer if I refer to your positions in the same manner, since they are highly questionable. In this thread for example, if you are not aware of the common terminology of paramilitary groups in the US it would be wiser to educate yourself rather than sounding like a horse's backend. I certianly hope you don't go off to another country with the CF with that attitude for your own sake, as well as others.
Wednesday's Child said:
From what I got from Caracal Kid's powt was that he was actually mocking the US' right to establish private militias. I don't think he was suggesting doing nothing about this militia, but rather treat them all equally and just ban them all. After all, if I remember correctly, Mcveigh came from such a background too.
Re: RE: Terrorist Training Camp in New York
One problem with that... The US didn't really keep good records of the nation of origin of the slaves from whom the members of this organisation originate. It wasn't immigration which brought them to the US... It was the slave trade.
Jay said:
One problem with that... The US didn't really keep good records of the nation of origin of the slaves from whom the members of this organisation originate. It wasn't immigration which brought them to the US... It was the slave trade.
Machjo
You write:
From what I got from Caracal Kid's powt was that he was actually mocking the US' right to establish private militias. I don't think he was suggesting doing nothing about this militia, but rather treat them all equally and just ban them all. After all, if I remember correctly, Mcveigh came from such a background too.
I agree and that is what I was asking him or did he advocate a pacifist response (as the U.S. seems to be doing) and do nothing at all, until an overt act of terrorism had been made.
McVeigh was trained in the regular military. Whether he belonged to a para military group after his discharge I don't know.
I personally have a great problem with the government who bow to the press, especially the agencies of the government who are asked to ensure our safety and security here. The press simply will not let them. They even have senatorial hearings pointing fingers and revealing all of our intelligence. What a "misnomer".
Currently spying and evesdropping is a major news item when the press are nagging to know all - which includes allowing those who would attack the U.S. in on our operational systems.
It is suicidal and the press should be told to back off regarding issues of national security. I believe in freedom of the press but it includes responsible press and they are demonstrating less and less responsibility for our safety in order to out-scoop each other.
I don't have any idea what Caracal is up to unless he just prefers to argue what he believes to be his common sense approach, however when the issue is terrorism, there is no common sense.
Those monsters would blow up their own mothers and children if it was asked of them. They are living and working in a neighborhood surrounded by good people. Who is looking out for the good people? The press? The government? The lawyers? Nada!
Trouble with us here in the west, we still have that old "honor among the protectors" hanging over our heads like some lead weight when I say these people deserve no honor whatsoever.
You write:
From what I got from Caracal Kid's powt was that he was actually mocking the US' right to establish private militias. I don't think he was suggesting doing nothing about this militia, but rather treat them all equally and just ban them all. After all, if I remember correctly, Mcveigh came from such a background too.
I agree and that is what I was asking him or did he advocate a pacifist response (as the U.S. seems to be doing) and do nothing at all, until an overt act of terrorism had been made.
McVeigh was trained in the regular military. Whether he belonged to a para military group after his discharge I don't know.
I personally have a great problem with the government who bow to the press, especially the agencies of the government who are asked to ensure our safety and security here. The press simply will not let them. They even have senatorial hearings pointing fingers and revealing all of our intelligence. What a "misnomer".
Currently spying and evesdropping is a major news item when the press are nagging to know all - which includes allowing those who would attack the U.S. in on our operational systems.
It is suicidal and the press should be told to back off regarding issues of national security. I believe in freedom of the press but it includes responsible press and they are demonstrating less and less responsibility for our safety in order to out-scoop each other.
I don't have any idea what Caracal is up to unless he just prefers to argue what he believes to be his common sense approach, however when the issue is terrorism, there is no common sense.
Those monsters would blow up their own mothers and children if it was asked of them. They are living and working in a neighborhood surrounded by good people. Who is looking out for the good people? The press? The government? The lawyers? Nada!
Trouble with us here in the west, we still have that old "honor among the protectors" hanging over our heads like some lead weight when I say these people deserve no honor whatsoever.
Re: RE: Terrorist Training Camp in New York
Machjo
You write to Jay:
One problem with that... The US didn't really keep good records of the nation of origin of the slaves from whom the members of this organisation originate. It wasn't immigration which brought them to the US... It was the slave trade.
Are you confusing the African people with the people from the middle east? The terrorists are primarily from the middle east, and have black membership. The African American black has for many years tried to cement into organizations dominated by the Muslim faith - primarily indoctrinated in prisons where eager ears are willingly available.
They are however not as dedicated as the middle east terrorist who hates all western democracies - and this includes Europe and the "children" of the British Empire.
African Americans have always been afforded a return to Africa and a country Liberia was begun for the families of slavery, not only in the U.S. but in other countries - the U.S. was not the only country which utilized slavery. But these people are not necessarily the "terrorists"....and therefore your remark about slavery vs. immigration doesn't compute.
In contrast also is the fact most African Americans do well in democracy as opposed to what would await them in an Islamic society of strict rules.
Or have I got it wrong?
Machjo
You write to Jay:
One problem with that... The US didn't really keep good records of the nation of origin of the slaves from whom the members of this organisation originate. It wasn't immigration which brought them to the US... It was the slave trade.
Are you confusing the African people with the people from the middle east? The terrorists are primarily from the middle east, and have black membership. The African American black has for many years tried to cement into organizations dominated by the Muslim faith - primarily indoctrinated in prisons where eager ears are willingly available.
They are however not as dedicated as the middle east terrorist who hates all western democracies - and this includes Europe and the "children" of the British Empire.
African Americans have always been afforded a return to Africa and a country Liberia was begun for the families of slavery, not only in the U.S. but in other countries - the U.S. was not the only country which utilized slavery. But these people are not necessarily the "terrorists"....and therefore your remark about slavery vs. immigration doesn't compute.
In contrast also is the fact most African Americans do well in democracy as opposed to what would await them in an Islamic society of strict rules.
Or have I got it wrong?
RE: Terrorist Training Ca
In contrast also is the fact most African Americans do well in democracy as opposed to what would await them in an Islamic society of strict rules.
Or have I got it wrong?
You have got it wrong!
In contrast also is the fact most African Americans do well in democracy as opposed to what would await them in an Islamic society of strict rules.
Or have I got it wrong?
You have got it wrong!
"I don't have any idea what Caracal is up to unless he just prefers to argue what he believes to be his common sense approach"
Actually, I was raising the complexities of the issue. The US partially defines itself through its liberties. If it is time to change those liberties in the name of security, then it is either argued the US has in some way already lost to the "terrorists", that it is necessary, or that America is merely growing and changing with the times and no "real and necessary" freedoms are lost. It is true that everybody sacrifices certian "freedoms" in order to create a stable society. However, people seldomly like the idea of sacrificing something, even if is something they may well never use. The question for the American people and their government is what sacrifices are necessary to achieve the society they desire. Whatever those sacrifices may be, they need to apply to all. An "us and them" mindset would only further drive divisions and create a framework for further problems while also not accurately identifying all threats. These things are seldom "black and white" in nature.
Actually, I was raising the complexities of the issue. The US partially defines itself through its liberties. If it is time to change those liberties in the name of security, then it is either argued the US has in some way already lost to the "terrorists", that it is necessary, or that America is merely growing and changing with the times and no "real and necessary" freedoms are lost. It is true that everybody sacrifices certian "freedoms" in order to create a stable society. However, people seldomly like the idea of sacrificing something, even if is something they may well never use. The question for the American people and their government is what sacrifices are necessary to achieve the society they desire. Whatever those sacrifices may be, they need to apply to all. An "us and them" mindset would only further drive divisions and create a framework for further problems while also not accurately identifying all threats. These things are seldom "black and white" in nature.
Machjo said:
Actually, McVeigh was booted out of one of the militias because the people involved thought he was nuts.
Which actually says something good about the militia.