TENS - Taxed Enough Nova Scotians

[FiveParadox]

One major problem with extreme opposition to any and all tax increases is the fact that such a policy makes any Government’s ability to respond to the needs of the day extremely brittle and inflexible. Your position, atlanticaparty, is at the root of things an advocacy for the termination of Government-sponsored social services, and this is something that Canadians have indicated time and time again to be an essential part of Government and, at the end of the day, a definite dealbreaker.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

One major problem with extreme opposition to any and all tax increases is the fact that such a policy makes any Government’s ability to respond to the needs of the day extremely brittle and inflexible. Your position, atlanticaparty, is at the root of things an advocacy for the termination of Government-sponsored social services, and this is something that Canadians have indicated time and time again to be an essential part of Government and, at the end of the day, a definite dealbreaker.

Just what I tried to tell him, FP. Maybe they should join the Tea Party in USA, they are kindred souls.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

As to that, that is a myth propagated by conservatives, that we pay high taxes here in Canada. We may pay slightly higher taxes than in USA (even here, the difference is not huge, contrary to popular belief. And the comparison there is skewed, seeing that they pay separate social security tax, medical insurance etc.). However, our taxes are quite comparable with Europe, Australia, New Zealand etc, and indeed compare quite favorably with that in many developed countries.

Day 3

As JLM rightly pointed out, there are many hidden taxes not included in your link. How do you think the Canadian Taxpayers Federation came up with a tax freedom date in mid July? The only thing that isn't taxed is basic groceries, a small portion of what we spend our after tax dollars on. We are paying for a massive government machine that does not create wealth or contribute to GDP, it is becoming more of a parasite in every heartbeat.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

One major problem with extreme opposition to any and all tax increases is the fact that such a policy makes any Government’s ability to respond to the needs of the day extremely brittle and inflexible. Your position, atlanticaparty, is at the root of things an advocacy for the termination of Government-sponsored social services, and this is something that Canadians have indicated time and time again to be an essential part of Government and, at the end of the day, a definite dealbreaker.

Not all Canadians feel they are owed by everyone else, some actually do believe they are deserving of their success by their own hand despite the indignatition of the masses. Unfortunately it is the most vocal folks who drive the wheels of govenment policy and they are the ones who think the worker bees somehow owe the sloths their due. We live in a country that penalizes hard work and rewards laziness, sad but true. The same was a major cause of the fall of the Roman Empire, among other formerly successful regimes.

 

[FiveParadox]

We do not ‘reward’ laziness, but there is a general Canadian understanding that every single person in Canada has the right to certain standards and services by the sole and exclusively virtue of being a Canadian person. These guaranteed standards and services cannot be funded out of thin air; they must be funded by the very people that they serve, and this is generally done through taxes.

 

[Bar Sinister]

You have to stop trying to compare yourself to Europe, Australia and New Zealand. They are examples of countries who pay very high taxes. You live in a land of taxes, not that we don't, but were not anywhere taxed as high as you are. I does not matter who you pay your taxes to, it all comes out of your pocket. (20% Fed 21% Provincial) or any combination it actually is. There is no reason for Provincial taxes to be so high, most of what they pay for should come from the federal gov.. In the U.S. our state taxes are much lower than federal, and in a couple of states are non-existent.
Lets not go into all the freebies you may get like health care and education. It is not free, you do pay for it,

Actually tax rates in Canada and the US from all sources are remarkably similar. The US is slightly lower, but of course certain social services like health care in Canada do not have to be paid out of pocket. You can compare tax rates at this site. Canada and the US are 20 and 21.
Total Tax Wedge single worker (most recent) by country

 

[JLM]

Late 70s - mid 80s? I wasn't even in the country at that time, we returned to Canada in 1986.

Oh yeah, we managed to struggle along here during your absence.

 

[JLM]

As JLM rightly pointed out, there are many hidden taxes not included in your link. How do you think the Canadian Taxpayers Federation came up with a tax freedom date in mid July? The only thing that isn't taxed is basic groceries, a small portion of what we spend our after tax dollars on. We are paying for a massive government machine that does not create wealth or contribute to GDP, it is becoming more of a parasite in every heartbeat.

Exactly and every year it moves ahead another day or two. I think in B.C. it's actually late June and about July 12 in Newfie. I'm going to see if I can find out.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

We do not ‘reward’ laziness, but there is a general Canadian understanding that every single person in Canada has the right to certain standards and services by the sole and exclusively virtue of being a Canadian person. These guaranteed standards and services cannot be funded out of thin air; they must be funded by the very people that they serve, and this is generally done through taxes.

Well, yes we do reward laziness, but more to the point, we penalize success, we call it "progressive" income tax. Progress, and progressiveness, are nice sounding terms, until you have something growing inside you that have the same terms. Make no mistake, progress and progressiveness are destructive no matter the context or application. We are a progressing toward the abyss, just how quiclky we want to progress is up to us.

 

[JLM]

Ho Ho, this site tells exactly where the bear sh*t in the buckwheat it's shows trends over the years for the U.S. - tax freedom day 100 years ago was in January. The saddest news is how we compare with other coutnes around the world - we compare with third world countries
Tax Freedom Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JLM]

Well, yes we do reward laziness, but more to the point, we penalize success, we call it "progressive" income tax. Progress, and progressiveness, are nice sounding terms, until you have something growing inside you that have the same terms. Make no mistake, progress and progressiveness are destructive no matter the context or application. We are a progressing toward the abyss, just how quiclky we want to progress is up to us.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. You might want to check out this snappy little tune YouTube - Tax Freedom Day in Canada

 

[petros]

He used the tax increase to balance the budget and run a surplus.

If I have $10 in taxes and decide to run my province on $3, pay down interest but not debt with $6 more leaving a buck to spend willy nilly how the hell does that automatically become a success and a good thing?

Does Ontario now have 100% of the social programs it once had and then some on the new taxes and "balanced budget"?

When that happens you can go ahead and jump for joy.

Until then you are enslaved to your creditors.

 

[atlanticaparty]

One major problem with extreme opposition to any and all tax increases is the fact that such a policy makes any Government’s ability to respond to the needs of the day extremely brittle and inflexible. Your position, atlanticaparty, is at the root of things an advocacy for the termination of Government-sponsored social services, and this is something that Canadians have indicated time and time again to be an essential part of Government and, at the end of the day, a definite dealbreaker.

TENS is about protesting a proposed 2% HST hike here in Nova Scotia to cover a deficit that has been caused overspending on non-essential services. The social services (an essential service) you speak of are only 1/7th of our budget spending. We could have tax cuts and still expand social services!!

Not sure why talking about resisting tax increases is attacked as anti-social services. We certainly support social services.

What would you do about NS's increasing deficits FiveParadox?

Borrow the money or raise taxes?

 

[TenPenny]

TENS is about protesting a proposed 2% HST hike here in Nova Scotia to cover a deficit that has been caused overspending on non-essential services.

Don't you have to have NB and NL agree to raise the HST?

 

[atlanticaparty]

Don't you have to have NB and NL agree to raise the HST?

I don't think so.

If you are still convinced we are a 'front' look through our website Atlantica Party | Home

You can see we are a grassroots pro-democracy movement with nothing to say about the Atlantica Trade Corridor (or whatever its called).

 

[TenPenny]

I did look at your website, and I will actually admit that I understood you were just an offshoot of the Atlantica movement...the name is somewhat misconfusing.

I believe that any changes to the HST rates in NB/NS/NL require all three provinces to agree, and the same rate applies to all 3.

 

[TenPenny]

Ah, it might be changing:

Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Newfoundland and Labrador have HST agreements with the federal government. Under the current rules, a province that wants to change the tax rate must have the approval of one of the other provinces.
But those rules are in the process of changing because Ontario and British Columbia are working on their own HST deals. Whatever changes they negotiate can be applied to the original HST agreements.
Steele said it's unclear what it will take for Nova Scotia to increase the tax rate as suggested.

 

[atlanticaparty]

Interesting. That would be a good question to put to him at one of his consultations. What about PEI?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

As JLM rightly pointed out, there are many hidden taxes not included in your link. How do you think the Canadian Taxpayers Federation came up with a tax freedom date in mid July? The only thing that isn't taxed is basic groceries, a small portion of what we spend our after tax dollars on. We are paying for a massive government machine that does not create wealth or contribute to GDP, it is becoming more of a parasite in every heartbeat.

Canadian Taxpayers Association is a right wing organization, Bob. Didn’t Harper use to be their president?

They have only one mandate, to reduce taxes; it is pretty much a single issue group. I wouldn’t trust them as far as I can throw them.

There have been studies, which show that taxes as percentage of GDP isn't really all that different between USA to Canada.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Oh yeah, we managed to struggle along here during your absence.

Oh, poor you. You just barely managed to survive without me, eh?