Tennessee enacts evolution, climate change law

coldstream

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THE Pope risked the wrath of the religious Right yesterday by declaring that Darwin's theory of evolution was compatible with Christian faith. In a message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, which advises the Vatican on scientific matters, the Pope said the theory of natural selection was "more than just a hypothesis".

The Pope, who appears fully recovered from his appendix operation two weeks ago, was responding to requests for clarification from the 80-member Academy, which is holding its 60th anniversary meeting on "Evolution And The Origins Of Life".

Darwin's theories, as formulated in Origin Of Species By Natural Selection and The Descent Of Man led to bitter controversy in the late 19th century, with leading churchmen denouncing them as incompatible with the account given in Genesis.

Pope Pius XII broached the subject in 1950 in his encyclical Humani Generis, indicating that the Church should not reject Darwin's "serious hypothesis" out of hand. But he said that it could be misused by Communist "dialectical materialists" whose aim was "to remove any notion of God from people's minds".

Pope John Paul II went further than Pius XII yesterday, saying: "It is noteworthy that the theory of evolution has progressively taken root in the minds of researchers following a series of discoveries in different
disciplines."

He added: "The convergence, neither sought nor provoked, of results of studies undertaken independently from each other in itself constitutes a significant argument in favour of the theory [of evolution]."

The Pope appeared to side step the vexed theological question of whether, if the theory of evolution from apes and Australopithecus afarensis through Neanderthal man to Homo sapiens is correct, creatures before modern man had souls.

But he said that, whatever man's origins, his soul was a divine creation, declaring: "If the human body has its origin in pre-existing living matter, the spiritual soul is immediately created by God." No theory was acceptable which held that the spirit emerged from "the forces of living material".

Marghareta Hack, a leading Italian astronomer, said the pronouncement was an important step "because for the first time the Church is accepting evolution as a proven fact".

Francesco Barone, a scientific philosopher, told Il Messaggero that, after Galileo's rehabilitation, acceptance of evolutionary theory was the latest in a series of steps which were "mending the tears" in the Church's relationship with science.

Opposition to Darwinism remains staunch in the American Bible Belt.


Contributed by Jeremy C. Ahouse; Biology Department; Brandeis University; Waltham, MA 02254-9110

The Catholic Church has never taken the Creation Story (7 days, 4000 years ago) as a literal fact. That is all rooted in Prostestant Biblical literalism. The RCC has ALWAYS treated Genesis as allegorical, as defining a moral structure. At the core of its teaching is a Creator however.. and by way of that a purpose, a moral architecture.. and a destiny.

Evolution alone does not contradict any of that. But it would be wrong to define this as 'Darwinian' evolution.. which is accidental by nature.. does not speak to original causes.. and definitively denies a supernatural moral imperative and impulse.

My original post did not contest right of the Education system to present Darwinian evolution.. or AGW. I just agree that well vetted opposing positions should be presented. I'm confident enough in my version of reality that i think it will prevail. The mere fact that Darwinians or AGW proponents fear this so much.. speak volumes about their own confidence.
 
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coldstream

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I know there is deep suspicion of the roots of radical environmentalism (from which AGW spawns).. in its paganism (nature worship) and programs of depopulation.. in the Catholic leadership.

And the Pope, on matters of social policy.. is not and has never claimed to be 'infallible'.. except on matters of faith and morals promulgated 'ex-cathedra'. His views on climate change, of which he no authority, are not necessarily valid... and if he does agree with it (which i doubt)... then he's just been bamboozled like about 2/3 of the rest of the population.

Benedict is a brilliant man, as a Catholic moral theologian.. he's never pretended to be a natural scientist. His call was for consensus on a divisive issue.. he did not the endorse the psuedo science on which it is based.

He's Catholic along the same lines as Mel Gibson.

Mel and i agree as to the validity of the Tridentine Latin Mass, as being the central instrument of the Church and that the Novus Ordo vernacular Mass has been a disastrous experiment, along with the deformation of the other sacraments.... and we agree to some degree on interpretation of the modernist 'Spirit of Vatican 2' as being heretical (as opposed to Benedict's interpretion of it). But i'm still in communion with Rome.. Mel is an ex-communicant. :)
 
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TenPenny

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Because it confuses the situation. Teachers already have the freedom to question scientific theory. They can bring a critical analysis to administration and if they have sufficient evidence to disprove a particular concept, it can effectively change the curriculum.

So a law that does nothing other than confirm what already exists is a bad thing, and should be condemned?

Because apparently it confuses scientists?
 

coldstream

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Fr. Coyne by the way stated this in that article on Intelligent Design
Christianity is “radically creationist,” Father George V. Coyne said, but it is not best described by the “crude creationism” of the fundamental, literal, scientific interpretation of Genesis or by the Newtonian dictatorial God who makes the universe tick along like a watch. Rather, he stresses, God acts as a parent toward the universe, nurturing, encouraging and working with it.

That is far from Darwinian evolution. The argument seems to have devolved into a difference in definitions of what 'intelligent design'..'creationism' .. and 'Darwinism' mean.. a matter of semantics. A true Darwinian evolutionist would utterly reject Fr. Coyne's interpretation.
 
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Niflmir

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So a law that does nothing other than confirm what already exists is a bad thing, and should be condemned?
Because apparently it confuses scientists?

It doesn't confuse scientists, it worries teachers, principals and superintendants.

What this law does is lay down a minefield for a curriculum enforcer. If a teacher now wants to teach creationism and does it paying lip service to it as a controversy, and the principal wants to forbid the teacher from doing so, it seems at face value like this law prevents the principal from doing so. Even though creationism is uncontroversially unscientific.

Imagine every time you wanted to teach something from history you had to mention all the insane conspiracy theories that abound. You'd never get through a proper curriculum. It would be Illuminati this, Masons this, Jews over there, CIA under the desks, etc.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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What's the harm in this. I'd say make it obligatory that teachers present all positions...
That is exactly the harm in it. Not all positions are equally valid and presenting them as such is a pedagogical failure of the worst sort. That argument amounts to what Isaac Asimov sharply criticized as the stream of anti-intellectualism that runs through much of Western culture, the view that, as he put it, "your ignorance is just as valid as my knowledge." Creationism, for instance, is not a subject for the science classroom, because it's not legitimate science. It's a cultural and religious meme that can be dealt with in discussions of those subjects, but it should not be presented as a scientifically legitimate alternative to evolution.

The Catholic Church has never taken the Creation Story (7 days, 4000 years ago) as a literal fact.
It certainly has. Go back a few centuries.
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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See, that proves it! You say one thing, I say another. Definitely a controversy.

Wow, you posted a reply to my post before I posted that post. How'd you do that!?
More lost time? Did the earth stop spinning where I was? End times maybe?
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Wow, you posted a reply to my post before I posted that post. How'd you do that!?
More lost time? Did the earth stop spinning where I was? End times maybe?
I noticed that. It is a miracle. He should be up for sainthood or something.