Ted Cruz: Can't touch this

[EagleSmack]

What could the senate do? The clowns in the house were demanding that Obamacare be killed, which was pretty much the central issue that America voted on just a year earlier.

Don't be foolish. The passing of Obamacare is what caused the Democrats to get flushed from the House of Representatives and almost lose the Senate.

Obamacare is a disaster and is the most unpopular legislation passed in my memory. It is not even a divisive issue.

 

[Walter]

It can certainly destroy it.

That's all it can do.

 

[BornRuff]

What loop hole? You mean voting against a bill is considered a loop hole to Dems now?

Would back door be a better term for you? The House, along with the Senate, voted to pass the Affordable Care Act. Then these clowns decided to go back and try to defund the program that they already approved through the budget process, and tie the entire US budget to the fate of this one program.

Embellish much?

They do not over rule all other branches. They happen to have a majority of the House of Representatives and that is that.

If they refuse to pass a budget nothing can be done by the other branches of the government.

How is what I am saying embellishing? They literally shut down the government.

Don't be foolish. The passing of Obamacare is what caused the Democrats to get flushed from the House of Representatives and almost lose the Senate.

Obamacare is a disaster and is the most unpopular legislation passed in my memory. It is not even a divisive issue.

The issue of if the Affordable Care Act is good policy and how they went about fighting it are two different issues.

It's like me saying "I am going to kill one of these cute puppies every minute until you feed these starving orphans". Even if everyone agrees that feeding starving orphans is a good thing, it doesn't mean killing all those puppies was the right way to achieve that goal.

That's all it can do.

Well, they did a damn good job at that in this case.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

That's all it can do.

Wally's right. Take, for example, roads. The government builds roads, and the money they spend on that is pure waste. There is no economic value in a road.

 

[pgs]

Ted Cruz is someone who can't be taken seriously his actions demonstrate that.
some say oh we can just keep spending money. Well society has to be financed.
First Reagan decided the bills for infrastrure didn't need to be paid. That is one
example. Now of course roads, bridges, schools and other core infrastructure
programs can't be fixed cause there is no money.
How is it programs for people are expenses beyond the ability for government.
Yet tax breaks for business and corporate executives are good. The bloated
military budgets eat up the most of the rest. Oh I forgot the security departments
are out of control and they do little more than promote fear.
Now if we just spent money on people and not on sensible security, infrastructure
and the military it would be equally out of balance.
Priorities are required to provide a roadmap, and balance must be tempered by
wisdom and we appear to be short on that.

What do roads bridges and schools have to do with federal government of U.S.A. other than if the feds continue to increase tax on the 50% that pay it , there won't be any left for the states and municipalities to tax and pay for the above mentioned schools roads and bridges .

 

[EagleSmack]

Would back door be a better term for you? The House, along with the Senate, voted to pass the Affordable Care Act. Then these clowns decided to go back and try to defund the program that they already approved through the budget process, and tie the entire US budget to the fate of this one program.

There was no back door used. It was all in the open. They tried to defund an unpopular legislation that was passed by the Democrats when they had full control.

Again... you've no sense of what the facts are with regards to WHO passed Obamacare.

If you want to talk of back doors. How can the President pick and choose what part of the Obamacare Law gets enacted when it was a law voted by Congress and signed by him? He's doing it.

If they refuse to pass a budget nothing can be done by the other branches of the government.

They wanted compromise. Tacking items on to a budget bill is not new. The Democrats who always talk of compromise do very little of it. Compromise to them is give us what we want and you'll get a little pork for your constituents.

How is what I am saying embellishing? They literally shut down the government.

Burning the house down? The House of Representatives having power to overrule all branches of the US Govt.? You didn't say any of that?

Yes... the Senate and House shut the government down. The Democrats made it extra painful

The issue of if the Affordable Care Act is good policy and how they went about fighting it are two different issues.

It is awful policy. Are you even following the reality of Obamacare or just waiting for your Democrat "talking points" fax?

It's like me saying "I am going to kill one of these cute puppies every minute until you feed these starving orphans". Even if everyone agrees that feeding starving orphans is a good thing, it doesn't mean killing all those puppies was the right way to achieve that goal.

Good F*ing grief. Are you for real

 

[taxslave]

No my point is that the American Government has to reign in it's spending and only the Tea party is doing something about it. And frankly that was what they were sent to Washington to do .
So what would I do differently . Simple I would cut spending wherever possible . I would try and reign in out of control bureaucracy
Exactly like Cruz and the Tea Party .
Life is grand until you run out of grandchildren's money to spend .

That is not really true but it is what the teapartiers would have you believe. DOn't forget that Obama inherited a structural deficit from junior and the teaparty has been dead set against raising taxes or cutting military spending to help alleviate it.
Now I am not in favor of raising taxes but if you want to spend on programs you have to get the money from somewhere. And which is more important, health care or military might?

 

[BornRuff]

There was no back door used. It was all in the open. They tried to defund an unpopular legislation that was passed by the Democrats when they had full control.

Again... you've no sense of what the facts are with regards to WHO passed Obamacare.

If you want to talk of back doors. How can the President pick and choose what part of the Obamacare Law gets enacted when it was a law voted by Congress and signed by him? He's doing it.

The front door, above board way to do something like this is to vote to repeal the law. Since the voters didn't give them enough power to actually do this, they decided to hold up the entire US government and refuse to pass a budget until they got this thing that they did not have enough democratic power to do the right way.

They wanted compromise. Tacking items on to a budget bill is not new. The Democrats who always talk of compromise do very little of it. Compromise to them is give us what we want and you'll get a little pork for your constituents.

"Give me what I want or I will shut the government down" isn't compromise. The Dems offered them numerous alternatives that would reduce spending, but the Tea Party insisted on this one, completely unrealistic demand.

Burning the house down? The House of Representatives having power to overrule all branches of the US Govt.? You didn't say any of that?

Yes... the Senate and House shut the government down. The Democrats made it extra painful

They have the power to shut the government down if they refuse to pass a budget. Given the ramifications of what they did, burning the house to the ground seems appropriate.

It is awful policy. Are you even following the reality of Obamacare or just waiting for your Democrat "talking points" fax?

There are numerous other threads about US healthcare. Tactics and policy are two different issues.

Good F*ing grief. Are you for real

So do you now understand that there can be a very big difference between the merits of a policy or view and the methods used to enact those?

 

[EagleSmack]

That is not really true but it is what the teapartiers would have you believe. DOn't forget that Obama inherited a structural deficit from junior and the teaparty has been dead set against raising taxes or cutting military spending to help alleviate it.
Now I am not in favor of raising taxes but if you want to spend on programs you have to get the money from somewhere. And which is more important, health care or military might?

I wonder why all left of center folks can't be like you TS.

Down here they are so nasty.

The Tea Party wants the govt. to get their spending under control. The US Govt lives way above their means. And the GOP DID play a big part in the state of today's economy. However the Dems continued the spending and increased it and kept pointing back saying we inherited this or the GOP did it too.

There is so much govt waste to cut. It is completely out of control and it is only going to get worse if things keep progressing the way they are. The only thing propping this economy up is the US Govt printing more money and pumping it into the banks. That is the only thing. I doubt the Chinese would dare pump their money into our economy like we are mainlining ourselves.

 

[taxslave]

I wonder why all left of center folks can't be like you TS.

Down here they are so nasty.

The Tea Party wants the govt. to get their spending under control. The US Govt lives way above their means. And the GOP DID play a big part in the state of today's economy. However the Dems continued the spending and increased it and kept pointing back saying we inherited this or the GOP did it too.

There is so much govt waste to cut. It is completely out of control and it is only going to get worse if things keep progressing the way they are. The only thing propping this economy up is the US Govt printing more money and pumping it into the banks. That is the only thing. I doubt the Chinese would dare pump their money into our economy like we are mainlining ourselves.

Many of the far right are rather on the nasty side as well. I think it comes from believing your own BS. In reality politicians do not have as much control over government spending as they would have you believe. The bureaucracy largely moves on its own. Also there is a sort of incestuous relationship between industries and bureaucracies in the same field so if you try to cut spending in any area of government you get a huge outcry from dependent businesses. All of whom have employees that vote.

 

[EagleSmack]

The front door, above board way to do something like this is to vote to repeal the law. Since the voters didn't give them enough power to actually do this, they decided to hold up the entire US government and refuse to pass a budget until they got this thing that they did not have enough democratic power to do the right way.

"Give me what I want or I will shut the government down" isn't compromise. The Dems offered them numerous alternatives that would reduce spending, but the Tea Party insisted on this one, completely unrealistic demand.

Unrealistic because the Dems are knee deep in it now and can't go back. It is the signature piece of legislation of this administration.

And get your head out of the clouds... there is no reduced spending... spending has been increased again.

They have the power to shut the government down if they refuse to pass a budget. Given the ramifications of what they did, burning the house to the ground seems appropriate.

The Govt was shut down by failure of Congress to pass a budget. Neither side giving in

The house was not burnt down... because here we are.

Saying the House of Reps has the power to overrule all branches of government was embellishing and straight out false. If it were true we wouldn't have Obamacare now would we?

So do you now understand that there can be a very big difference between the merits of a policy or view and the methods used to enact those?

Well this has no bearing on your "puppy/orphan" post but I'll speak on it.

The methods used were exactly within the rights of the House of Reps. The President threatening or doing an end around on Congress is pushing if not over stepping the powers of the Executive Office.

Many of the far right are rather on the nasty side as well. I think it comes from believing your own BS. In reality politicians do not have as much control over government spending as they would have you believe. The bureaucracy largely moves on its own. Also there is a sort of incestuous relationship between industries and bureaucracies in the same field so if you try to cut spending in any area of government you get a huge outcry from dependent businesses. All of whom have employees that vote.

But there is a big question of the sustainability of the US Govt. continuing on this path of printing and injecting more money into our system. All we are doing is kicking the can down the road.

The Tea Party is dangerous to both parties... but not dangerous to the govt. The Dems saw how dangerous they were in 2010... the GOP saw a number of them bumping their people out of line. So instead of tackling the issues of the Tea Party what do they do... call em' racist tea baggers. It is all they can do.

 

[BornRuff]

I wonder why all left of center folks can't be like you TS.

Down here they are so nasty.

The Tea Party wants the govt. to get their spending under control. The US Govt lives way above their means. And the GOP DID play a big part in the state of today's economy. However the Dems continued the spending and increased it and kept pointing back saying we inherited this or the GOP did it too.

There is so much govt waste to cut. It is completely out of control and it is only going to get worse if things keep progressing the way they are. The only thing propping this economy up is the US Govt printing more money and pumping it into the banks. That is the only thing. I doubt the Chinese would dare pump their money into our economy like we are mainlining ourselves.

How do you expect the government to pass a good budget that addresses any of this stuff if they are currently at a point where just passing any budget at all is a huge achievement?

The idea that the government has to get back to a balanced budget is certainly not wrong, but the methods that Tea Partiers choose to go about it are very questionable at best.

They wasted so much political capital on this budget fight over an issue that they never had a chance in hell of winning. They constantly spit vitriol that has no chance of bringing people together to actually get anything done.

They keep advocating for harsh austerity in the short term, when we know that that will hamper growth and worsen the economic situation of the united states.

What we really need to look at are reasonable measures in the short term and long term plans that address both spending and revenues, but they are not being at all helpful in making that happen.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

How do you expect the government to pass a good budget that addresses any of this stuff if they are currently at a point where just passing any budget at all is a huge achievement?

The idea that the government has to get back to a balanced budget is certainly not wrong, but the methods that Tea Partiers choose to go about it are very questionable at best.

They wasted so much political capital on this budget fight over an issue that they never had a chance in hell of winning. They constantly spit vitriol that has no chance of bringing people together to actually get anything done.

They keep advocating for harsh austerity in the short term, when we know that that will hamper growth and worsen the economic situation of the united states.

What we really need to look at are reasonable measures in the short term and long term plans that address both spending and revenues, but they are not being at all helpful in making that happen.

Personally, I favor zeroing all entitlement spending for ten years. That way, we'd pay off the debt, and by the time ten years passed, the economically useless'd mostly be dead.

 

[BornRuff]

Unrealistic because the Dems are knee deep in it now and can't go back. It is the signature piece of legislation of this administration.

And get your head out of the clouds... there is no reduced spending... spending has been increased again.

Of course. As you said, this is the signature policy of his presidency. Clearly that was never something that they were going to be able to take down so it was stupid to make it their target.

They offered many different proposals to cut spending in other areas, but the Tea Partiers were more focused on scoring political points on that one issues.

The Govt was shut down by failure of Congress to pass a budget. Neither side giving in

The house was not burnt down... because here we are.

Saying the House of Reps has the power to overrule all branches of government was embellishing and straight out false. If it were true we wouldn't have Obamacare now would we?

The powers of each branch of government are pretty simple facts.

They all have the ability to "overrule" each other in the sense that they can block legislation. In this case this group in the house decided to use their power to stop the entire government from operating.

I think this clearly rests on the group in the house since they are the ones that attached killing the Affordable Care Act to the budget, and they are the ones who refused to budge for months on that unwinnable point.

Well this has no bearing on your "puppy/orphan" post but I'll speak on it.

The methods used were exactly within the rights of the House of Reps. The President threatening or doing an end around on Congress is pushing if not over stepping the powers of the Executive Office.

I have the ability to kill puppies, but it doesn't make it right. Shutting the entire government down over a political fight that they had no chance of winning was stupid and selfish.

 

[EagleSmack]

How do you expect the government to pass a good budget that addresses any of this stuff if they are currently at a point where just passing any budget at all is a huge achievement?

The idea that the government has to get back to a balanced budget is certainly not wrong, but the methods that Tea Partiers choose to go about it are very questionable at best.

They are not questionable and they are trying to do exactly that... get some semblance of order and discipline in spending.

They wasted so much political capital on this budget fight over an issue that they never had a chance in hell of winning. They constantly spit vitriol that has no chance of bringing people together to actually get anything done.

Any loss they had after they lost the budget debate was quickly regained in the Obamacare roll out.

They keep advocating for harsh austerity in the short term, when we know that that will hamper growth and worsen the economic situation of the united states.

What we really need to look at are reasonable measures in the short term and long term plans that address both spending and revenues, but they are not being at all helpful in making that happen.

Austerity... you mean living within their means.

And believe me... the Tea Party is not looking at harsh short term measures for entitlements. I know in my state of Massachusetts being completely dependent on the state and federal government is not a bad lifestyle. An individual can (if he or she chooses) completely tune out of the work force and live pretty well having everything provided. By choice they can. They need no excuse except to quit their job and refuse to look for another. No reason need be given, no debilitating accident or sickness needed. Just choose.

WTF is that?!

Of course. As you said, this is the signature policy of his presidency. Clearly that was never something that they were going to be able to take down so it was stupid to make it their target.

They offered many different proposals to cut spending in other areas, but the Tea Partiers were more focused on scoring political points on that one issues.

No it was not stupid and it will still be a target. It is unpopular and as each day goes on we are seeing more and more of how much a disaster it is.

The powers of each branch of government are pretty simple facts.

They all have the ability to "overrule" each other in the sense that they can block legislation. In this case this group in the house decided to use their power to stop the entire government from operating.

So the House of Reps (only 1/2 of Congress) can overrule a Presidential veto? A SJC decision?

No.

I think this clearly rests on the group in the house since they are the ones that attached killing the Affordable Care Act to the budget, and they are the ones who refused to budge for months on that unwinnable point.

It is not winnable today... but not forever.

I have the ability to kill puppies, but it doesn't make it right.

Stop being ridiculous.

Shutting the entire government down over a political fight that they had no chance of winning was stupid and selfish.

In hindsight it was at the time. But there will be other times.

 

[BornRuff]

They are not questionable and they are trying to do exactly that... get some semblance of order and discipline in spending.

Lol, you won't even question the way they are going about things? How much kool aid did you drink?

They are doing a lot of things, but "order and discipline" certainly don't seem to be on their agenda.

Any loss they had after they lost the budget debate was quickly regained in the Obamacare roll out.

A loss is a loss. They could be way further ahead of where they were if they had not made themselves look completely insane last fall.

Austerity... you mean living within their means.

And believe me... the Tea Party is not looking at harsh short term measures for entitlements. I know in my state of Massachusetts being completely dependent on the state and federal government is not a bad lifestyle. An individual can (if he or she chooses) completely tune out of the work force and live pretty well having everything provided. By choice they can. They need no excuse except to quit their job and refuse to look for another. No reason need be given, no debilitating accident or sickness needed. Just choose.

WTF is that?!

You seem to have a pretty warped view of what is being debated in the federal budget.

No it was not stupid and it will still be a target. It is unpopular and as each day goes on we are seeing more and more of how much a disaster it is.

It was clearly stupid. They never had a chance in hell of killing the Affordable Care Act. Had they waited until this year, they might have had a bit more wiggle room.

So the House of Reps (only 1/2 of Congress) can overrule a Presidential veto? A SJC decision?

No.

Can you read?

It is not winnable today... but not forever.

Plunging the entire nation into an unwinnable fight is stupid. They should focus on areas where they can actually have a positive impact.

Stop being ridiculous.

I'll keep it up until you understand what we are talking about here.

 

[EagleSmack]

Lol, you won't even question the way they are going about things? How much kool aid did you drink?

That coming from a Kool-Aid drinker... wow.

Doing what their constituents sent them to Washington to do... what a sin.

They are doing a lot of things, but "order and discipline" certainly don't seem to be on their agenda.

Because they aren't bending over for the Dems?

A loss is a loss. They could be way further ahead of where they were if they had not made themselves look completely insane last fall.

The roll out wiped the govt shut down away in a week.

You seem to have a pretty warped view of what is being debated in the federal budget.

Oh what is my view then?

It was clearly stupid. They never had a chance in hell of killing the Affordable Care Act. Had they waited until this year, they might have had a bit more wiggle room.

Waited till this year... like doing it now? What wiggle room do they have today that they didn't in the fall?

Can you read?

Can you get a clue?

Plunging the entire nation into an unwinnable fight is stupid. They should focus on areas where they can actually have a positive impact.

Oh what a disaster it was! If it was not for the government going out and shutting down each and every NPS park and monument and standing guard nobody would have even know the government was shut down. Putting up barriers and guards in open air monuments.Thank the Dems for that pain.

I'll keep it up until you understand what we are talking about here.

You not wanting to kill puppies?

 

[BornRuff]

That coming from a Kool-Aid drinker... wow.

Doing what their constituents sent them to Washington to do... what a sin.

Did they send them there to waste 24 billion dollars of their money on an unwinnable fight?

Because they aren't bending over for the Dems?

Because they have so far done little but cause chaos.

The roll out wiped the govt shut down away in a week.

I would disagree with that. If they had played their cards more sanely, they would have a lot more credibility going forward.

Oh what is my view then?

How much of what you mentioned there is actually in the federal budget?

Waited till this year... like doing it now? What wiggle room do they have today that they didn't in the fall?

It is obviously much easier to attack the Affordable Care Act at this point than it was last fall.

Oh what a disaster it was! If it was not for the government going out and shutting down each and every NPS park and monument and standing guard nobody would have even know the government was shut down. Putting up barriers and guards in open air monuments.Thank the Dems for that pain.

The effects were very severe for millions of people.

You not wanting to kill puppies?

Tactics vs ideas.

 

[Walter]

Wally's right. Take, for example, roads. The government builds roads, and the money they spend on that is pure waste. There is no economic value in a road.

A doesn't create wealth; it creates the opportunity to create wealth.

Cruz's right again.

Exclusive - Ted Cruz: House GOP's Amnesty Push Will Ruin Hopes of Retaking Senate

 

[EagleSmack]

Did they send them there to waste 24 billion dollars of their money on an unwinnable fight?

How can I compete with someone who uses talking points distributed by the Democrat party that have no basis on reality?

In other words... 24 Billion BS.

Because they have so far done little but cause chaos.

Ahhhhh... and let us all join hands and follow the Democrats into their Utopia.

May your chains rest lightly upon you.

I would disagree with that. If they had played their cards more sanely, they would have a lot more credibility going forward.

They tried to stop the disaster that happened and is happening.

How much of what you mentioned there is actually in the federal budget?

Where?

It is obviously much easier to attack the Affordable Care Act at this point than it was last fall.

Well no sh*t!

And why? Because it is a disaster, that is why. And you're admitting it was because why else would it be easier to attack? Your own words has flattened your argument right here regardless of what you say from this point on.

And they tried to stop it... didn't they?

But there you were ripping the GOP for trying to stop Obamacare before it rolled out and off the tracks.

You're coming around it seems. Good for you.