Tar sands = filthy dirty bitumen "oil"

[Tonington]

That's your answer for any opinion that is not parallel to yours

No, that's my answer for a conclusion that doesn't follow from the premise.

Sure it can, in fact, advances are made daily, should we require the oil companies to retool every second week?

How about, when a company applies for the permits, and is required to submit an impact assessment, they are held to the standards we already have in place for water quality? If they can't meet those requirements, then sorry, no permit. If they are found later to be out of spec, then their permit is suspended.

.. Are you prepared to pay 10X more to finance this or will you b*tch about the oil being "our" resource and therefore it should be free?

The question is, are those companies prepared to pay what they must to be in compliance.

Your convenience I might add as well as for your profit in the form of not being charged impossible rates for the product that would be a result of engaging the perpetual (weekly) changes in technology.

Blather. This is a strawman. Who said they need to roll out every new technology as it becomes available? I'm just saying that they should be required to keep their end of the agreement. Getting a permit is an agreement, and if they are breaking that agreement, they should not get to profit from that at all until they are once again in compliance.

Heres the link AGAIN about the tailings reduction operations,theres a link at the bottom to watch the video of how we are dealing with mature fine tailings that pretty well explains it very simply in laymens terms.
This is what I do,I see it working every day.

Oil Sands Tailings Management — Sustainability - Suncor Energy

So how about the emissions of toxic heavy metals from the up-graders? What is being done to remedy that?

 

[Kakato]

No, that's my answer for a conclusion that doesn't follow from the premise.


How about, when a company applies for the permits, and is required to submit an impact assessment, they are held to the standards we already have in place for water quality? If they can't meet those requirements, then sorry, no permit. If they are found later to be out of spec, then their permit is suspended.

The question is, are those companies prepared to pay what they must to be in compliance.

Blather. This is a strawman. Who said they need to roll out every new technology as it becomes available? I'm just saying that they should be required to keep their end of the agreement. Getting a permit is an agreement, and if they are breaking that agreement, they should not get to profit from that at all until they are once again in compliance.



So how about the emissions of toxic heavy metals from the up-graders? What is being done to remedy that?

That's not my department but they are building something thats supposed to cut them considerably as I type this.
I'm in tailings,the part most people focus on.

 

[taxslave]

I'm in tailings,the part most people focus on.
We all like a little tail very now and then.

Ever notice that it is mostly city dwellers without a clue that protest the most about things that happen solely to keep their cities functioning but never complain about the thousands of acres of farm land that is turned into McMansions, mega malls and golf courses that they just gotta have.

 

[Kakato]

I'm in tailings,the part most people focus on.
We all like a little tail very now and then.

Ever notice that it is mostly city dwellers without a clue that protest the most about things that happen solely to keep their cities functioning but never complain about the thousands of acres of farm land that is turned into McMansions, mega malls and golf courses that they just gotta have.

How true,some folks just jump on every bandwagon they see.:lol:

They probably shop at Walmart too.:roll:

 

[Tonington]

Maybe the city dwellers are cognizant of the impact their actions have, and would like to see the companies that produce the products they consume do so in a more sustainable manner. Just a thought. It's not like someone can go to a gas pump and choose between competing sources of the gasoline...

 

[Kakato]

Maybe the city dwellers are cognizant of the impact their actions have, and would like to see the companies that produce the products they consume do so in a more sustainable manner. Just a thought. It's not like someone can go to a gas pump and choose between competing sources of the gasoline...

The oilsands are doing this,do you live in a cave or just ignore the facts?
So far you have shown mega ignorance about anything in the energy industry.:roll:
You should do some research on your own about reclamation and what it costs to put up a reclamation bond or the directive given to the oilsands by the government to be cleaner and more environmentally responsible.

 

[taxslave]

Quoting taxslave
I'm in tailings,the part most people focus on.
We all like a little tail very now and then.

Ever notice that it is mostly city dwellers without a clue that protest the most about things that happen solely to keep their cities functioning but never complain about the thousands of acres of farm land that is turned into McMansions, mega malls and golf courses that they just gotta have.
How true,some folks just jump on every bandwagon they see.

They probably shop at Walmart too.
quick reply | quote this | multiple:

Quoting taxslave
I'm in tailings,the part most people focus on.
We all like a little tail very now and then.

Ever notice that it is mostly city dwellers without a clue that protest the most about things that happen solely to keep their cities functioning but never complain about the thousands of acres of farm land that is turned into McMansions, mega malls and golf courses that they just gotta have.
How true,some folks just jump on every bandwagon they see.

They probably shop at Walmart too.

Kayto:
Tonington gave me a red for this. I guess the truth hurts.

 

[Tonington]

The oilsands are doing this,do you live in a cave or just ignore the facts?

Listen chump, learn to read. I said "more sustainable manner". Your industry has denied the impacts for years, and still is. In fact you yourself have.

So far you have shown mega ignorance about anything in the energy industry.:roll:

Such as? Let's see your laundry list.

 

[Kakato]

The truth hurts and ignorance is bliss

 

[Tonington]

The truth hurts and ignorance is bliss

Yes, the truth does hurt.
Elevated levels of heavy metal toxins downstream from Oilsands developments

 

[Kakato]

Yes, the truth does hurt.
Elevated levels of heavy metal toxins downstream from Oilsands developments

I wonder if the power used to run this website comes from the oilsands?
I wonder how many folks have the oilsands as investments in their mutual fund portfolio?
I bet it's lots.:lol:

 

[Tonington]

I wonder if the power used to run this website comes from the oilsands?
I wonder how many folks have the oilsands as investments in their mutual fund portfolio?
I bet it's lots.:lol:

Red herring, red herring, irrelevant speculation.

Thanks for trying though. It's a nice example of what people do when confronted with hard truth. It's called cognitive dissonance.

 

[Kakato]

Yes, the truth does hurt.
Elevated levels of heavy metal toxins downstream from Oilsands developments

Did you know that the only feasible outcrops of bitumen laden sand to mine are next to the Athabasca river?
Do you know anything about the geology of these outcrops and how bitumen has a tendency to leech naturally into elevations lower then the deposits?
I do.Gravity can be a real bitch sometimes,the mines should get some kudo's for mining these outcrops that were naturally leeching toxins into the river.;-)

Blame the caveman,they caused the first global warming that caused the huge ice dam in the arctic to melt and burst that allowed a huge sea to wash down south and scour the overburden from the fort mac valley exposing the oilsands.

 

[JLM]

Same thing with the logging shows that get shut down- 98% of the protestors are women.

 

[Kakato]

Same thing with the logging shows that get shut down- 98% of the protestors are women.

The environuts were responsible for our old growth forest around my area of residence not being harvested which allowed for a beetle infestation and one of Canada's most expensive forest fires which pretty well wiped out the forest for hundreds of miles in the mountains around my place(lost creek fire).
The forestry in Alberta now recognizes this and dont make much effort anymore to stop wildfires unless they are threatining people.

 

[gerryh]

Did you know that the only feasible outcrops of bitumen laden sand to mine are next to the Athabasca river?
Do you know anything about the geology of these outcrops and how bitumen has a tendency to leech naturally into elevations lower then the deposits?
I do.Gravity can be a real bitch sometimes,the mines should get some kudo's for mining these outcrops that were naturally leeching toxins into the river.;-)

Blame the caveman,they caused the first global warming that caused the huge ice dam in the arctic to melt and burst that allowed a huge sea to wash down south and scour the overburden from the fort mac valley exposing the oilsands.

So, you're saying that there are no elevated levels of heavy metals from the oilsands. That the high levels of mercury etc, are naturally occurring because of the bitumen deposits and not because of the mining. That the levels would be up there regardless. Does that about cover it? Now, if that is so, can you supply supporting documentation please.

 

[Tonington]

Re: Tar sands = fhttp://forums.canadiancontent.net/newreply.ilthy dirty bitumen "oil"

Did you know that the only feasible outcrops of bitumen laden sand to mine are next to the Athabasca river?
Do you know anything about the geology of these outcrops and how bitumen has a tendency to leech naturally into elevations lower then the deposits?

Yes in fact, I do. If you want to read the study for yourself I'll post it here. Then you can see how the researchers accounted for that fact.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/08/24/1008754107.full.pdf

This is very different than natural leaching from river embankments, and exposed bitumen deposits in a river.

 

[TenPenny]

Apparently, it's a natural phenomenon that airborne pollutants from the upgrader facilities have always somehow been generated by nature.

 

[JLM]

The environuts were responsible for our old growth forest around my area of residence not being harvested which allowed for a beetle infestation and one of Canada's most expensive forest fires which pretty well wiped out the forest for hundreds of miles in the mountains around my place(lost creek fire).
The forestry in Alberta now recognizes this and dont make much effort anymore to stop wildfires unless they are threatining people.

That's smart- gets rid of a lot of debris and also opens things up so oxygen can get into the soil.

 

[Kakato]

Re: Tar sands = fhttp://forums.canadiancontent.net/newreply.ilthy dirty bitumen "oil"

Yes in fact, I do. If you want to read the study for yourself I'll post it here. Then you can see how the researchers accounted for that fact.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/08/24/1008754107.full.pdf

This is very different than natural leaching from river embankments, and exposed bitumen deposits in a river.

That's right,I never denied it wasnt happening or where it comes from,fact is things have changed since the oilsands first started,i'm saying they are doing things to clean up the mistakes made from years of abuse.
No one is denying they didnt pollute,every industry in Canada has done the same thing.
Things are changing is what i'm saying and you tend to ignore that fact and act like the polluting will still carry on unabated when it wont.

Funny how everyone ignores all the pulp mills near the athabasca when bringing up pollution.