And what do you call dignity? Justice would have come if death was at the hands of another just like her victim.
Susan Atikins begs for release from prison
- Thread starter karrie
- Start date
And what do you call dignity? Justice would have come if death was at the hands of another just like her victim.
I think we should get an opinion for C. Manson himself. He'd be an authority on the subject right? He was there. <snicker>
LW, you were the one to bring up 'dignity' first... If you believe what you just said, why, then, are you saying to release her so she can die with dignity?
I just know that the victims didn't die with dignity.
Hi Wolf
It came out during the trial that each Manson family member present stabbed every victim at least once. Some of the victims were stabbed dozens of times. I can't think of a way to make her less guilty because she is sick. She was one of those who stabbed Sharon Tate's unborn baby numerous times? I watched the trial as much as I could stand it.
Read the words again. I said let her out. No matter what, she won't be released until the moment of her death. She knows remorse so she knows she did wrong. Crazy Charlie, on the other hand, still believes.
I remember the trials too. Hell, it pushed Vietnam into second billing in Life Magazine for a couple of issues. Seems to me I recall the multiple stabbings being likened to death by firing squad in that the actual killer couldn't be known. "I was just following orders" and "I was drunk" are not a defence. Remorse and repentance should lighten the burdens a bit. Death behind walls should be a pleasure reserved for the leader IMO.
Release her/let her out... whats the difference??? Anyway her sentence was life in prison, so be it, let her die in prison.
What she was sentanced to, nor the horrible nature of her crimes are not really debatable.
The issue really boils down to, if the only reason to continue her punishment is vindictiveness and a sense of revenge,
Is that something society should consider a good thing?
Is revenge a good enough reason to cause someone suffering?
Risus openly admits that revenge is a good enough motive to make someone suffer. I can't say I disagree on an emotional level. Hell I wouldn't be against outright torture on an emotional level when people do what she did.
On a rational level, I can't see any good point to it, and believe it sets a bad precendent. How do you arrest someone for being vengefull if the legal system declares vengeance valid?
The issue really boils down to, if the only reason to continue her punishment is vindictiveness and a sense of revenge,
Is that something society should consider a good thing?
Is revenge a good enough reason to cause someone suffering?
Risus openly admits that revenge is a good enough motive to make someone suffer. I can't say I disagree on an emotional level. Hell I wouldn't be against outright torture on an emotional level when people do what she did.
On a rational level, I can't see any good point to it, and believe it sets a bad precendent. How do you arrest someone for being vengefull if the legal system declares vengeance valid?
How is the suffering any different whether the person dies in prison or elsewhere? And I wouldn't say carrying out the sentence assigned by the court as revenge. Its justice.
Because a group of human being with their own emotions says something?
Courts make all kinds of emotional, occassionally immoral and even blatantly illegal decisions.
Justice and Vengeance and where they differ are a matter of personal morals.
As for how the suffering is different, if she wants to see the clear sky before she dies, maybe in a meadow, and it doesn't hurt anyone, then why reject the plea?
The reason? You want to force her to share a small part of the suffering she inflicted on others. That may be the just choice, its still revenge.
The old law codes of Hammurabi were based on revenge. An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. Inflict on the criminal exactly what he did to his victim. Life in prison does not stand as revenge for nine brutal murders including that of an unborn baby. All murderers say they are "born again" when they want parole.
I don't see why it matters that she has cancer. Why are your last days any different than those spent 10 years ago as far as the law is concerned? Dying of natural causes in jail isn't the worst thing in the world. It's the natural outcome of a life sentence. Why call it a life sentence if everyone diagnosed as terminal gets a get out of jail free card?
Manson has already spoken on this hasn't he? Sexy Sadie, what have you done, You made a fool of everyone. Maybe that was profitic more now than then. As often is the case, I'm with #juan. Ease her suffering in prison where she should die for her part in the crimes.
Who really gives a sh*t if she has brain cancer or is repentant, she should die locked up and begging for freedom just as the Manson families victims did. Drugs or no drugs I highly doubt she felt any sympathy for the victims when she was driving the knife into them, if the sentence of death is overturned then yes let her out, but the sentence was death and who are you to say we should let her free?.
The only issue is whats the point.
No matter how you slice it, keeping her locked up is nothing but revenge.
we have said it is morally wrong to act on revenge or use it as a basis in our legal system.
Im not saying we shouldn't have revenge based punishments. Im saying if we are going to punish other people for acting on revenge (like beating within an inch of their life someone who killed their child), then we cannot have our legal system act as an agent of revenge.
If we are going to say revenge is acceptable and a valid emotion the state sponsors, then fine, lets stop arresting people when they succumb to that emotion.
If the victims sister had killed this woman she would be in Jail, why? If we claim its ok to make the woman suffer as form of revenge, why would we then arrest someone (and make them suffer) for doing the same thing?
No matter how you slice it, keeping her locked up is nothing but revenge.
we have said it is morally wrong to act on revenge or use it as a basis in our legal system.
Im not saying we shouldn't have revenge based punishments. Im saying if we are going to punish other people for acting on revenge (like beating within an inch of their life someone who killed their child), then we cannot have our legal system act as an agent of revenge.
If we are going to say revenge is acceptable and a valid emotion the state sponsors, then fine, lets stop arresting people when they succumb to that emotion.
If the victims sister had killed this woman she would be in Jail, why? If we claim its ok to make the woman suffer as form of revenge, why would we then arrest someone (and make them suffer) for doing the same thing?
Thanks Unforgiven
It looks like the consensus in this little group is that Atkins should serve her life term and obviously, be made as comfortable as possible during her last days, presumably in the prison hospital.
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