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Thread: Bush plot to merge Canada, the US and Mexico - page 11
Post: Silky - today 2:22 am
Start of war? 15 Royal Marines and sailors seized by Iranians
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Thread: Bush plot to merge Canada, the US and Mexico - page 11
Post: Silky - today 2:22 am
That's nothing but fearmongering on your part, the last time this type of event too place they were released. You are accusing them of doing things that are not known.
Being taken while in a uniform by somebody else in uniform is not always the worst that could happen to you.
If they had sniffers that sniffed for explosives instead of gas, is that covered by any UN resolution at that time. The ban on exporting weapons came into effect the day after this took place.
We don't even know for sure if the same number of people were on those two boats that came and left. Hopefully somebody has that kind of info.
Iran has a right to capture foreign soldiers which have illegally entered its territory. It does not have the right to touch the soldiers outside its territory. Where the soldiers were exactly remains unproven.
However, raiding a consulate and kidnapping diplomats is illegal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6255335.stm
It would make sense that since that illegal abduction, Iran has been watching its border closely waiting for a chance to legally seize careless allied soldiers in order to get their diplomats back.
I hope Iran treats their prisoners better than Americans treat their prisoners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
However, raiding a consulate and kidnapping diplomats is illegal
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6255335.stm
It would make sense that since that illegal abduction, Iran has been watching its border closely waiting for a chance to legally seize careless allied soldiers in order to get their diplomats back.
I hope Iran treats their prisoners better than Americans treat their prisoners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding
It seems like the border there is disputed, and so we can't be clear as to whether they were in Iranian or Iraqi waters, which means the whole issue is totally grey.
Pffft, I beat him hands down...
Kill them all and let Allah sort them out!!!
Wow, a coherent sentence, good structure, proper capitalization, intelligent, correct puntuation. I kwew you were a poser. Why not just post like this all the time and drop the tard posts?
You want me to grab a foreigner and take some snap shots of Joyceville or Millhaven, the next time I'm near there. Gauranteed, no one beats us to death!!! Let alone ask us what we're doing.
I would agree, grey as grey could be, don't care though...
The Brits need to get their boys back, by any means necessary and with extreme prejudice. Kill anything that gets in the way and let Allah figure out who get the virgins later.
this is an excerpt from "asia times" I don't know how reputable they are but I wanted a different viewpoint to american and UK and canadian:
The intensified military buildup in the Persian Gulf poses dangers for escalation, both inadvertent and deliberate. Last week's Iranian decision to surround a British naval vessel and seize 15 sailors and marines directly increases tensions in the Iran conflict (around both the nuclear issue and Iran's intervention in Iraq).
It's possible, though unlikely, that the British sailors were inadvertently in Iranian territory; though certainly the patrols around Iraqi offshore terminals and shipping lanes routinely bring British naval vessels right to the edge of Iranian territorial waters. (The Iraqi sea lane is quite narrow in the area of the conflict, with some 200 meters of navigable water in Iraqi territory.)
Whatever the case, the well-orchestrated Iranian "surround and seizure" had been planned for some time. It strikes me as a response to the United States holding Iranian diplomats taken in Irbil several months ago - a deliberate and carefully calibrated escalation, with very limited risk for an outbreak of hostilities. Hence the extraordinary and high-level Iranian military presence quickly marshaled to the scene.
The timing of the event was surely intentional, a provocation right before the United Nations Security Council was to vote on further sanctions against Iran. The decision could only have been made with the approval of Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. President Mahmud Ahmadinejad would not have been allowed to take the lead on such a decision.
The move further confirms that Tehran is not looking for a "diplomatic out". Rather, it is sending a message to the international community that Iran is prepared for a fight if necessary and that its only remaining options are increasingly unpalatable.
LINK
The intensified military buildup in the Persian Gulf poses dangers for escalation, both inadvertent and deliberate. Last week's Iranian decision to surround a British naval vessel and seize 15 sailors and marines directly increases tensions in the Iran conflict (around both the nuclear issue and Iran's intervention in Iraq).
It's possible, though unlikely, that the British sailors were inadvertently in Iranian territory; though certainly the patrols around Iraqi offshore terminals and shipping lanes routinely bring British naval vessels right to the edge of Iranian territorial waters. (The Iraqi sea lane is quite narrow in the area of the conflict, with some 200 meters of navigable water in Iraqi territory.)
Whatever the case, the well-orchestrated Iranian "surround and seizure" had been planned for some time. It strikes me as a response to the United States holding Iranian diplomats taken in Irbil several months ago - a deliberate and carefully calibrated escalation, with very limited risk for an outbreak of hostilities. Hence the extraordinary and high-level Iranian military presence quickly marshaled to the scene.
The timing of the event was surely intentional, a provocation right before the United Nations Security Council was to vote on further sanctions against Iran. The decision could only have been made with the approval of Iranian Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei. President Mahmud Ahmadinejad would not have been allowed to take the lead on such a decision.
The move further confirms that Tehran is not looking for a "diplomatic out". Rather, it is sending a message to the international community that Iran is prepared for a fight if necessary and that its only remaining options are increasingly unpalatable.
LINK
There is very little doubt that the British soldiers, sailors etc., were in Iranian waters when they were captured. The ship these people came from would have had a GPS fix on them during the whole operation. The intrepid SAS got caught.again. The British captives will admit their wrong-doing and they will be released.......just like last time.
It's all a game of tit-for-tat. But one has to admire the boldness of the Iranians. So few nations have the nerve for such moves anymore. I can well remember Captain Canada, Brian Tobin, and his instant celebrity when he seized a Spanish fishing trawler to protest fishing practices off our coasts. It made us feel good. For once, action had trumped words. Diplomacy has its place but never will achieve the stature of the heroic.
Originally Posted by thomaska
http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2543
http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2543
Iran announced today that it would release immediately the 15 British soldiers and marines it took hostage last week to avoid further “cordial pressure and devastating pleasantries” from British Prime Minister Tony Blair. “In this test of wills,” said Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, “we acknowledge the superior power of the adversary. We cannot withstand another onslaught of polite diplomatic language nor the withering, if unspoken, consternation we detect in the eyes of Tony Blair.”
why is everyone talking like this didnt happen?
why is everyone talking like this didnt happen?
Here is another article on the issue.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20070326/62634364.html
The reference to them not becoming bargining chips was the first time I saw that in print.
http://en.rian.ru/world/20070326/62634364.html
The reference to them not becoming bargining chips was the first time I saw that in print.
Originally Posted by thomaska
http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=2543Iran announced today that it would release immediately the 15 British soldiers and marines it took hostage last week to avoid further “cordial pressure and devastating pleasantries” from British Prime Minister Tony Blair. “In this test of wills,” said Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, “we acknowledge the superior power of the adversary. We cannot withstand another onslaught of polite diplomatic language nor the withering, if unspoken, consternation we detect in the eyes of Tony Blair.”
why is everyone talking like this didnt happen?
A very smart move by Iran.
thomaska posted this at 10am this morning and all day everyone's been talking like it didnt happen
DurkaDurka said:
Like the Guardian, the conservative Times also isn't so enthused about war against Iran:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1426601.ece
quote:
Tony Blair has declared himself at odds with hawks in the US Administration by saying publicly for the first time that it would be wrong to take military action against Iran. The Prime Minister’s comments came hours before the UN’s nuclear watchdog raised the stakes in the West’s showdown with Tehran...
Senior British government sources have told The Times that they fear President Bush will seek to “settle the Iranian question through military means” next year, before the end of his second term if he concludes that diplomacy has failed. “He will not want to leave it unresolved for his successor,” said one.
Not much enthusiasm for war from the Guardian or Times.
UK reveal Iran seizure evidence
Chart ... released by MoD
By ONLINE REPORTER
March 28, 2007
The seized sailors are from Royal Navy Type 22 frigate HMS Cornwall
THE 15 British service personnel captured by Iran were well within Iraqi territorial waters when they were seized, the Ministry of Defence said today.
After the evidence was release the Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett told the House of Commons that the UK would freeze all business with Iran until the crisis was resolved.
This afternoon Turkish television quotes from minister Manouchehr Mottaki said the wren (the female sailor) would be freed "either today or tomorrow".
However reports from Iran said the remaining servicemen will be paraded on the country's television channels.
The first signs of a breakthrough in the crisis came less than two hours after Prime Minister Tony Blair vowed to “ratchet up” the pressure on Tehran over the detention of the 15 Royal Navy sailors and Royal Marines held last week.
At a briefing in London earlier today, the MoD said it “unambiguously contested” claims from Tehran that the UK vessel carrying the sailors and marines had strayed into Iranian waters.
GPS ... reading at time of incident
Vice Admiral Charles Style told reporters the craft was in fact 1.7 nautical miles inside the Iraqi part of the Shatt al Arab waterway, which forms the border between the two countries.
Admiral Style said the Iranians gave two different positions for the Royal Navy boarding party - the first inside Iraqi territorial waters.
And he said the party had been “ambushed” after the search of their vessel and that their detention was “unjustified and wrong”.
The group of sailors and marines seized last Friday include married mother-of-one Faye Turney and 21-year-old Paul Barton.
All 15 British personnel were detained at gunpoint after they boarded a ship carrying suspicious cargo off the coast of Iraq.
In the Commons Mrs Beckett said all business with Iran would be frozen until captured British service personnel were freed.
The Foreign Secretary said the situation had now entered a “new phase of diplomatic activity”, and all other official bilateral business with Iran was being frozen until it was resolved.
After the MoD released its evidence that the Brits’ were in Iraqi waters, Mrs Beckett said the Government found it “impossible to believe, given the seriousness of the incident, that the Iranians could have made such a mistake with the original co-ordinates”.
Mrs Beckett said that even if the British vessels had been in Iranian waters, the “very most” Iran would have been entitled to do was require them to leave immediately.
Admiral Style said the co-ordinates had been confirmed publicly by the Iraqi foreign ministry.
He added that the Iranian government had provided Britain with two different positions for the incident - the first placing it within Iraqi waters.
“We pointed this out to them on Sunday in diplomatic contacts,” he said.
“After we did this they then provided a second set of co-ordinates that places the incident in Iranian waters, over two nautical miles from the position given by HMS Cornwall and confirmed by the merchant vessel.
“It is is hard to understand a legitimate reason for this change of co-ordinates.
“In any case we unambiguously contest both the positions provided by the Iranians.”
thesun.co.uk
---------------------------
The Iranians are completely in the wrong.
Chart ... released by MoD
March 28, 2007
The seized sailors are from Royal Navy Type 22 frigate HMS Cornwall
THE 15 British service personnel captured by Iran were well within Iraqi territorial waters when they were seized, the Ministry of Defence said today.
After the evidence was release the Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett told the House of Commons that the UK would freeze all business with Iran until the crisis was resolved.
This afternoon Turkish television quotes from minister Manouchehr Mottaki said the wren (the female sailor) would be freed "either today or tomorrow".
However reports from Iran said the remaining servicemen will be paraded on the country's television channels.
The first signs of a breakthrough in the crisis came less than two hours after Prime Minister Tony Blair vowed to “ratchet up” the pressure on Tehran over the detention of the 15 Royal Navy sailors and Royal Marines held last week.
At a briefing in London earlier today, the MoD said it “unambiguously contested” claims from Tehran that the UK vessel carrying the sailors and marines had strayed into Iranian waters.
GPS ... reading at time of incident
Vice Admiral Charles Style told reporters the craft was in fact 1.7 nautical miles inside the Iraqi part of the Shatt al Arab waterway, which forms the border between the two countries.
Admiral Style said the Iranians gave two different positions for the Royal Navy boarding party - the first inside Iraqi territorial waters.
And he said the party had been “ambushed” after the search of their vessel and that their detention was “unjustified and wrong”.
The group of sailors and marines seized last Friday include married mother-of-one Faye Turney and 21-year-old Paul Barton.
All 15 British personnel were detained at gunpoint after they boarded a ship carrying suspicious cargo off the coast of Iraq.
In the Commons Mrs Beckett said all business with Iran would be frozen until captured British service personnel were freed.
The Foreign Secretary said the situation had now entered a “new phase of diplomatic activity”, and all other official bilateral business with Iran was being frozen until it was resolved.
After the MoD released its evidence that the Brits’ were in Iraqi waters, Mrs Beckett said the Government found it “impossible to believe, given the seriousness of the incident, that the Iranians could have made such a mistake with the original co-ordinates”.
Mrs Beckett said that even if the British vessels had been in Iranian waters, the “very most” Iran would have been entitled to do was require them to leave immediately.
Admiral Style said the co-ordinates had been confirmed publicly by the Iraqi foreign ministry.
He added that the Iranian government had provided Britain with two different positions for the incident - the first placing it within Iraqi waters.
“We pointed this out to them on Sunday in diplomatic contacts,” he said.
“After we did this they then provided a second set of co-ordinates that places the incident in Iranian waters, over two nautical miles from the position given by HMS Cornwall and confirmed by the merchant vessel.
“It is is hard to understand a legitimate reason for this change of co-ordinates.
“In any case we unambiguously contest both the positions provided by the Iranians.”
thesun.co.uk
---------------------------
The Iranians are completely in the wrong.
Back to the drawing board, pal.
I thought Iran had all the harware also, that GPS device wasn't on the boat.
Somebody should photoshop through the reflection to read the text and maybe the clock right at the top of the display could also be cleared up.
Somebody should photoshop through the reflection to read the text and maybe the clock right at the top of the display could also be cleared up.