Start of war? 15 Royal Marines and sailors seized by Iranians

EagleSmack

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There is very little doubt that the British soldiers, sailors etc., were in Iranian waters when they were captured. The ship these people came from would have had a GPS fix on them during the whole operation. The intrepid SAS got caught.again. The British captives will admit their wrong-doing and they will be released.......just like last time.

Very little doubt? There is a lot of doubt as the Iranians have already changed the coordinates that they released to the media that clearly stated the British were in Iraqi waters. Once they were shown that the original coordinates were in Iraqi waters the Iranians changed their story. Are you so blind to believe whatever the Iranians say?

Sure they will admit to whatever the Iranians want so they can get out of there. But when they get back they will say that they were forced to make those statements by the Iranian Rev. Guard but you will not believe that. You will believe the British Govt. is forcing them to recant those statements made in capitivity. You are so predictable.
 

EagleSmack

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Yeah, the GPS has proved that the British were in Iraqi waters. And we've also got the advantage that we have France, Germany, the rest of the EU, the US, Canada and the UN on our side.

Back to the drawing board, pal.

France? Don't make me laugh.
Germany? Paper tiger.
EU? weak save for Britain
The US... as always on your side.

Canada? Are you sure?

UN? Self explanatory... no teeth... no back bone... they are most likely enjoying the thought of Iranians kidnapping British soldiers.
 

s243a

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Mar 9, 2007
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I just heard on CTV a guy say it is not a question of if the US will attack Iran it is a question of when. Maybe they are just chicken littles but there seems to be a lot of chicken littles.
 

gopher

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I just heard on CTV a guy say it is not a question of if the US will attack Iran it is a question of when. Maybe they are just chicken littles but there seems to be a lot of chicken littles.

The following article which quotes several Washington DC war hawks says otherwise:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0328/p04s01-wome.html?page=1

Quote:

war with Iran, or even targeted air strikes at presumed nuclear facilities, is looking less and less likely. Despite tough rhetoric from both sides and increased tension over Iran's move to detain 15 British sailors last week, a variety of influential thinkers who championed the US-led invasion of Iraq are now saying that containment, not confrontation, is the best approach to Iran.



Article is copyrighted so I posted only an excerpt but more data is available at the link ...
 

RomSpaceKnight

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Oct 30, 2006
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The US will not attack Iran. They can't handle Iraq and haven't finished in Afghanistan. The Isrealis will stop the Iranians from getting the bomb. The yanks are not going to attack a country with a popular democratically elected goverment not matter how arrogant and backward arsed it is. The Iranian gov that is. :)
 

s243a

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Mar 9, 2007
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war with Iran, or even targeted air strikes at presumed nuclear facilities, is looking less and less likely. Despite tough rhetoric from both sides and increased tension over Iran's move to detain 15 British sailors last week, a variety of influential thinkers who championed the US-led invasion of Iraq are now saying that containment, not confrontation, is the best approach to Iran.
You know what, I might actually agree with you. And to sound like a real left winger, a containment policy would be a great excuse to further build the military industrial complex.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Would that mean the fuel rods would be used and then the spent ones shipped back to Russia for final disposition? (UN weigh scales) Or are you referring to sanctions like Cuba has faced for decades? A dispute usually includes stopping any business dealings. No US/UK business should be able to bid on any contract, nor influence who does end up with the contracts, nor be sub-contractors. If the US/UK were really serious they would refuse to buy any oil from them, or interfer who they sold that 'now free' oil to.

Am I correct that in a democracy the people have to vote on issues of national importance, like in a change in constitutional matters? Turning the oil resourses over to certain companies for a period of 30 years is not in their best interest.

I would have to double check, but I think that it only took a petition from a 'few' that decided if something required a vote by the 'legal voter'. 3 more months before that is signed into contract. Give everybody access to a net and you eliminate the long lines and face recognition with lip sync would make for 1 vote/person. Text to speech for easy listening while out on the camel trains (so your vote is an informed vote). Text-to-text for the language barrior.

Another thing about a democracy is that when public policy becomes greater than individual rights it maybe time to divide and multiply into smaller groups with some common goals.
Watchdogs were also part of democracy, transparency of the gov to the people they serve, if they ask you a question they deserve an answer.
Voice for 'your member' and access to all his communications in any form in my behalf.
I would much rather deal with Montana than with DC if the snow removal equipment is needed more in area x than where the Fed says it should be south of a certain point. Sometimes terror comes with just a wind.

I'm not sure what else has been slipping under the wire.
 

Blackleaf

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Sick Mullahs humiliate troops



Paraded ... footage of Faye and some of the other Royal Navy sailors and Royal Marines being held hostage


By GEORGE PASCOE-WATSON
Political Editor
MARCH 29, 2007



BRITAIN blasted Iran last night for parading our illegally-seized sailors on TV and humiliating mum Faye Turney.

The stand-off over the 15 British service personnel held by Iran intensified after Tehran warned that it could delay the release of Leading Seaman Faye Turney if Britain takes the issue to the United Nations (and Britain, not bowing to any Iranian pressure, HAS taken the issue to the United Nations).

Iran’s chief negotiator Ali Larijani warned that the British Government had “miscalculated” in its handling of the crisis - triggered by the seizure of the British personnel last Friday.

Downing Street made clear that it did intend to pursue the matter with Britain’s allies in the UN.

Tony Blair insisted: “There’s no alternative but to release them and the longer it goes on the more the pressure will be stepped up.

"I’m not interested in confrontation for its own sake, the most important thing is to get 15 personnel back safe and sound."

It came as France and the United States publicly supported Britain's position in the diplomatic stalemate.

The French Foreign Ministry summoned the Iranian ambassador to France to demand the swift release of the detained sailors.

"We reiterated our solidarity with the British and called on the Iranian authorities to free the detained sailors as soon as possible," spokesman Denis Simonneau said in a statement.

There was deep anger in Whitehall at the treatment of the 15 - particularly Leading Seaman Turney who was shown on Iranian television admitting that the Royal Navy party had “trespassed” into Iranian waters.

The spokesman said: "Nobody should be put in that position. It is an impossible position to be put in."

Fuming Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett said: “It is completely unacceptable to show these pictures.”

Larijani told state television: "The grounds were ready for the release of a woman among the British sailors but if we are faced with a fuss and wrong behaviour then this would be suspended and it would not take place."

Yesteday Britain proved that the Iranian mullahs are LYING when they claim they captured the Royal Navy team operating inside their waters.

Mrs Beckett hit back after footage of brave Leading Seaman Faye, 26, wearing a Muslim headscarf and praising her captors was shown on Iranian TV and beamed around the world.

She was forced on the orders of ranting president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to write a letter of apology to the Iranian people.

And the mum of one was ordered to write a letter to her parents — in which she says two small boats carrying 15 Royal Navy sailors and Royal Marines had entered Iranian waters.

Faye puffed nervously on a cigarette as she said on TV: "My name is Leading Seaman Faye Turney. I come from England.

I’ve been in the Navy for nine years."

She says of her Iranian captors: “They were very friendly and very hospitable, very thoughtful, nice people.

"They explained to us why we’ve been arrested. There was no harm, no aggression."

Her letter to her parents, in which she also claims her daughter Molly will get a present from the Iranians, was faxed to the Iranian embassy in London and published. It reads:

"Dear mum & Dad,


"I am writing to you from Iran, where I am being held.


"I will try to explain to you what has happened. We were out in the boats when we were arrested by Iranian forces as we had apparently gone into Iranian waters.



TV appearance ... Faye on Iranian TV and, inset, she is held on a boat flying the Iranian flag



"I wish we hadn’t, because then I’d be home with you all right now.


"I am so sorry we did, because I know we wouldn’t be here now if we hadn’t.


"I want you to know that I am well and safe. I am being well looked after. I’m fed three meals a day and have a constant supply of fluids.


"The people are friendly and hospitable, very compassionate and warm. I have written a letter to the Iranian people to apologise for us entering their waters.


"Please don’t worry about me, I am staying strong.


"Hopefully it won’t be long until I am home to get ready for Molly’s bIrthday party with a present from the Iranian people.


"Love you all more than you will ever know.


"All my love, Faye."


The televised interview is strictly in breach of the Geneva Convention.

Last night a body expert said Faye’s expressions showed she was "stressed and under pressure".

Pictures also showed some of the seven sailors and seven Royal Marine Commandos seized with Faye last Friday.

They were shown eating pitta bread and stew. In these scenes Faye wore a white and blue checked headscarf with her naval uniform.



Proof ... GPS shows location where Brits were ambushed was in Iraqi water


In later footage, she wore a white robe and black headscarf. Footage of the moment of capture was also shown on Iranian television. The Britons are seen behind a flapping Iranian flag aboard an inflatable.

Mrs Beckett said: "I am very concerned about these pictures and any indication of pressure on or coercion of our personnel — who were carrying out a routine operation in accordance with international law.

"I am particularly disappointed that a private letter has been used in a way which can only add to the distress of the families. We have comprehensively demonstrated today that our personnel were operating in Iraqi territorial waters."

Defence Secretary Des Browne added: "It’s completely unacceptable to parade our people in this way. My whole focus is to secure the immediate release of our people."

Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki last night insisted Britain must admit the boats strayed into their waters. He said Faye would be released "as soon as possible".

The lightly-armed Britons from the frigate HMS Cornwall had boarded an Indian merchant ship in the Shaat-al-Arab waterway off Basra.



Staying strong ... captive Faye was forced to write this letter to her parents



As they left, two gunboats manned by Iranian Revolutionary Guards with machine guns and rocket launchers moved in. Four more Iranian boats then arrived.

Outnumbered and out-gunned, the Royal Navy team had to surrender.

Photos released yesterday showed an electronic GPS navigation system being held by a British helicopter crew member above the boarded merchant vessel. It shows that our two boats, one of them steered by Faye, were 1.7 nautical miles inside IRAQI waters.

It also emerged that the Iranians at first provided map co-ordinates showing the Brits in Iraqi waters — then sent new ones purporting to show them in Iranian waters.

Tony Blair told MPs the detention was “wrong and illegal”.

Iran has still refused to allow the UK ambassador to visit the crew.

Israel’s Deputy PM Shimon Peres warned an early release of the hostages was unlikely. He said: "They will make the maximum possible out of this." Faye’s husband Adam, a naval petty officer, was at home with their daughter Molly, three, in Plymouth yesterday.

Friend Kim Slater, 49, called the TV footage “shocking”. She said: "She looked very uncomfortable with what she was saying. There is something not right in her eyes."

Two other hostages have been named, Royal Marine Paul Barton, 21, of Southport, Merseyside, and Royal Marine Danny Masterton, 26, of Muirkirk, Ayrshire, Scotland.
------------------------



Video nasty is a war crime

By TOM NEWTON DUNN
Defence Editor


WHY have the evil Ayatollahs forced shaken Faye Turney to hang her head in shame on live TV? For doing nothing more than serving Queen and Country — and with huge skill and pride.


This is the ultimate humiliation for every British serviceman and woman. And seeing it will make their blood boil.


Parading captured troops in public is a war crime. Britain would never do it.


Then there is the personal degradation of making Faye wear a headscarf. As a woman excelling in a man’s world, she will be furious to have been belittled.


But worst of all, they have exploited the terror of Faye’s daughter Molly and her mum’s deep feelings for her.


By airing this video nasty, Iran’s fanatical leaders have escalated the crisis.


Nobody who wears a uniform will ever forgive them. And they’ll be itching for the chance to make them sorry.
-------------------------------------------

At least they all look safe

Says ANDY McNAB
Sun Security Adviser


OUR Boys are — at the time this film was shot — clearly safe and well.


They’re not being tortured as they’re political, not military, prisoners. They’re being held to serve a purpose.


These hostages are smart and WANT to get on TV to let people know they are OK. They will have been gagging to be filmed. It is important for them to prove they are alive and well.


They know everyone back home knows the statement they were given to read is utter b******s.


I’m over the moon at the footage. It gives our troops clues where they are.






------------------------------------------
This will give family hope







Says JOHN NICHOL
Gulf War Hostage

I EXPECTED to see pictures of our brave hostages paraded on TV sooner or later.

They would have been happy to appear to give them the chance to show their families they are safe and well. The statement they were given to read is a load of cobblers, pure propaganda. But they are smart enough to say whatever is necessary to aid their release.

It is an incredibly difficult situation for these brave hostages and their families back home — and, fortunately, I was struck by how well they looked. Watching them one can only feel pride.

They are brave and heroic.
--------------------------


READERS' COMMENTS


Attack Iran!

Isn't time for the British to show some muscle? Don't depend on the US. Get the sailors out of Teheran, then blast the hell out of Iran. Restore the United Kingdom to its former glory!!!


hhudson, Canada
------------------

Send in the SAS!

Isn't it about time to make a phone call to the boys in Hereford?


griffinmill, UK


thesun.co.uk
 
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Blackleaf

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France? Don't make me laugh.
Germany? Paper tiger.
EU? weak save for Britain
The US... as always on your side.

Canada? Are you sure?

UN? Self explanatory... no teeth... no back bone... they are most likely enjoying the thought of Iranians kidnapping British soldiers.


I'm not saying the French, Germans and the EU will do anything much militarily to help us.

But just to have them and the UN on our side and supporting us would be nice.
 

Blackleaf

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BREAKING NEWS


Faye Turney's new letter



New letter ... Faye TurneyFaye Turney's new letter


By ONLINE REPORTER
March 29, 2007


IRAN released another letter by captured British sailor Faye Turney calling for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

The letter asked British lawmakers: “Isn’t it time to start withdrawing our forces from Iraq and let them determine their own future?”

It was not possible to verify the authenticity of the letter.


More to follow....

thesun.co.uk
-----------------



 
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Blackleaf

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Iran releases hostage marine's 'anti-war' letter

29th March 2007

Iran has released a second letter from kidnapped British marine Faye Turney in which she calls on Tony Blair to withdraw British troops from Iraq.

The letter was released by the Iranian embassy in London, which stated that Turney was the author.

The veracity of the letter could not immediately be determined.

"Isn't it time for us to start withdrawing our forces from Iraq and let them determine their own future?" said the letter, addressed to the British parliament.


The second letter allegedly written by Faye Turney. The Iranians said she would be released if the British didn't go to the UN. The British ignored them and have spoken to the UN.



Some language experts are already questioning the letter's validity, the suggestion being that the language used indicates the letter is an English translation of a Farsi original.

The letter appeared to be written in the same script as a first letter, which was also purportedly written by Turney, and released on Wednesday.

The second letter contains an admission that the British crew entered into Iranian waters. The first letter said they "apparently" entered Iranian waters.

The second letter says that "even through our wrongdoing, they have still treated us well and humanely."

Although the second letter - which has just four paragraphs - says the captive personnel are being treated humanely, there is no mention of any of Turney's personal circumstances. Her first letter contained messages of love for her husband and young daughter.

Turney's release is on hold after Iran accused Britain of having an "incorrect attitude".

The move comes on the day when Iranian television released footage of the operation to seize the 15 British naval personnel last week and presented what it claimed was evidence of the Britons encroaching into Iranian territory.

But Britain said the sailors and marines were detained in Iraqi waters and said global positioning data proved its position.

Faye Turney and the other British marines held captive as they appeared on state Iranian TV. Faye, who describes her captors as 'compassionate' has apologised for entering Iran's waters (probably under duress)



dailymail.co.uk


It's time for Britannia's lion to roar and give these Iranians what for.
 

EagleSmack

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Well it looks like they are going to be there for a long time as the Iranians have already been caught in a lie and now want Britain to say that the sailors and Marines were in their waters.
 

EagleSmack

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Man this girl is singing like a canary. She is doing everything they tell her to do. She caved in pretty quick.
 

Avro

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Feb 12, 2007
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There will be no (know?) war in Iran.

Iran is testing the resolve of the U.S. and the UK to further it's nuclear program.

Support within in Iran isn't there for war.

Plus how do we know for sure where those guys were picked up, I don't trust either one of them on this.
 

tamarin

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Jun 12, 2006
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I wouldn't want any hostage released because she's a 'woman.' Such a move would rebuke everything we're supposed to stand for now. She should stay and stay resolute with her comrades.
 

tamarin

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Whatever. I'd like to see the hostage situation ending soon. We have too many long running dramas on tv at the moment. Anna Nicole Smith is still winning the ratings war.
 

gopher

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to sound like a real left winger, a containment policy would be a great excuse to further build the military industrial complex.

Conservative Republican Eisenhower was the biggest critic of the military industrial complex.
 

gopher

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http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/

March 28, 2007

Fake Maritime Boundaries


The British Government has published a map showing the coordinates of the incident, well within an Iran/Iraq maritime border. The mainstream media and even the blogosphere has bought this hook, line and sinker.
But there are two colossal problems.
A) The Iran/Iraq maritime boundary shown on the British government map does not exist. It has been drawn up by the British Government. Only Iraq and Iran can agree their bilateral boundary, and they never have done this in the Gulf, only inside the Shatt because there it is the land border too. This published boundary is a fake with no legal force.
B) Accepting the British coordinates for the position of both HMS Cornwall and the incident, both were closer to Iranian land than Iraqi land. Go on, print out the map and measure it. Which underlines the point that the British produced border is not a reliable one.
None of which changes the fact that the Iranians, having made their point, should have handed back the captives immediately. I pray they do so before this thing spirals out of control. But by producing a fake map of the Iran/Iraq boundary, notably unfavourable to Iran, we can only harden the Iranian position.


Ambassador Murray knows that region better than anyone.