Those high prices are from Friday, and the price changed Saturday. Therefore, that info is outdated.
Solution to gas hikes?
- Thread starter Machjo
- Start date
Another one that does not understand basic economics. Business does not pay tax, ever. It is an expense that is added into the price of the product or service they sell. The end user(you and me) still pays the tax. Now when the price of their product gets too high because of high taxes and no one will buy their product one of two things happen. Those that can move their business to a more friendly climate or they go bankrupt. Either way we loose the jobs.
You going to pack my tools for me? And fuel for the machines? LOL
They are dictated by the regional distribution center what to charge. The indies can't drop their price much because they still have to pay the rack price dictated by the regional office of the majors.
Yep, your right, the indies don't have much room as the margins are very low on gas prices. The indies make most of their money on the junk food and other store items. The gas bar provides the traffic to get customers to buy the junk food.
Not much profit at all in selling gas!
First of all lets deal with some unspoken problems facing any government that even thinks
about some of the proposed changes and at the same time deal with the first set of problems
mentioned. We have a mentality that suggests this is North America and we are entitled to
certain expectations from life. Secondly we have been raised to attain certain goals as it is
the measure of our importance and worth in the society. We are also superior to societies
that go around riding bicycles. I know it probably is not true any of it, but that is the over all
mentality that several generations were brought up with. Its like saying we are entitled to all
the fancy processed food we can eat, but we should not have to suffer the consequences of
heart disease, cancer, high blood pressure and diabetes.
It should also be pointed out the level of hypocrisy has never been higher. Decades ago it was
our governments and the business community that promoted the false agenda that we now
subscribe to. Today Governments of all stripes are dealing with the problems of excess in the
form of health programs, prevention and medical costs. Governments are trying to deal with
the ever growing list of impossible expectations and demands made by the citizens of the
country. In addition the business community that sold people on the idea of bigger cars, homes
in the country or suburbia, with green lawns and an abundance of water. Business that promoted
the disposable system of cheap consumer goods. that replaced the idea of craftsmanship and value.
These same business are now reaping huge profits selling us small efficient cars, condo in an
urban setting, grappling with the idea that we want it all cheap, including food.
Contrast that with reality in Canada. We have big cars because we travel great distances due to
land mass and where we have to get to. We are a nation of travellers and bikes are not going to
cut it anymore than soccer will replace hockey as our major sport. Affordability of fuel, is essential
to transportation of goods and services and production of those same commodities especially food.
And the notion of turning cities back into farms is not going to cut it. The cost would far out weigh
the endeavour. For example, irrigation, fumigation, and retraining the soil is very costly. Second
the amount of water required for the present agricultural infrastructure is already under threat,
Most people don't realize for example, just to replant an acre of fruit trees in a rural setting, to a
different variety (apples to a different apple or to cherries for example) costs a minimum of 25
thousand dollars, that is for One Acre.
If you destroy the auto industry it would also disrupt the entire supply chain not only for product but for
jobs, and that would impact the tax structure, which in turn would hamper governments due to lack of
funds, from providing required services.
Food prices would sky rocket and the availability of consumer good would plummet.
We need to build new refineries and put the environmentalists who are obstructionists in their place.
Governments need to financially assist these companies in transition to end gas subsidies
and set the level of profit margin in exchange for those subsidies. Price is one thing profit margin is
another. In addition governments themselves must be responsible in their taxation policy. If taxes are
lower, and people use the fuel, the same money is made and the cost is lower, price down volume
up, same money at the end of the day. At the same time new energy sources can be found by science
and if done over time the price of those products would be about the same as innovation and perfecting
the new resource would be phased in to be the new norm.
We don't need a revolution of change, we need to ensure we have a continuous evolution of change.
Mankind works the same way, impose something on the they rebel, educate and demonstrate you have
a better way and people respond. For example I drive a full sized Silverado 1996 to be exact. I like it and
prefer it to the new ones and be damned if I will change that. Besides I don't need a new one when the
one I have is in good shape. Everyone looks at just changing the pricing or the distribution or changing
the driving habits of people, what they don't realize to do any of this in isolation will cause a huge and
ugly disruption of society. We need to phase in change with new ideas, and technology, that takes into
account the total impact on society and the world economies at the same time. I predict with new ideas
and science we could leave hundreds of years worth of oil in the ground because we moved on without it.
about some of the proposed changes and at the same time deal with the first set of problems
mentioned. We have a mentality that suggests this is North America and we are entitled to
certain expectations from life. Secondly we have been raised to attain certain goals as it is
the measure of our importance and worth in the society. We are also superior to societies
that go around riding bicycles. I know it probably is not true any of it, but that is the over all
mentality that several generations were brought up with. Its like saying we are entitled to all
the fancy processed food we can eat, but we should not have to suffer the consequences of
heart disease, cancer, high blood pressure and diabetes.
It should also be pointed out the level of hypocrisy has never been higher. Decades ago it was
our governments and the business community that promoted the false agenda that we now
subscribe to. Today Governments of all stripes are dealing with the problems of excess in the
form of health programs, prevention and medical costs. Governments are trying to deal with
the ever growing list of impossible expectations and demands made by the citizens of the
country. In addition the business community that sold people on the idea of bigger cars, homes
in the country or suburbia, with green lawns and an abundance of water. Business that promoted
the disposable system of cheap consumer goods. that replaced the idea of craftsmanship and value.
These same business are now reaping huge profits selling us small efficient cars, condo in an
urban setting, grappling with the idea that we want it all cheap, including food.
Contrast that with reality in Canada. We have big cars because we travel great distances due to
land mass and where we have to get to. We are a nation of travellers and bikes are not going to
cut it anymore than soccer will replace hockey as our major sport. Affordability of fuel, is essential
to transportation of goods and services and production of those same commodities especially food.
And the notion of turning cities back into farms is not going to cut it. The cost would far out weigh
the endeavour. For example, irrigation, fumigation, and retraining the soil is very costly. Second
the amount of water required for the present agricultural infrastructure is already under threat,
Most people don't realize for example, just to replant an acre of fruit trees in a rural setting, to a
different variety (apples to a different apple or to cherries for example) costs a minimum of 25
thousand dollars, that is for One Acre.
If you destroy the auto industry it would also disrupt the entire supply chain not only for product but for
jobs, and that would impact the tax structure, which in turn would hamper governments due to lack of
funds, from providing required services.
Food prices would sky rocket and the availability of consumer good would plummet.
We need to build new refineries and put the environmentalists who are obstructionists in their place.
Governments need to financially assist these companies in transition to end gas subsidies
and set the level of profit margin in exchange for those subsidies. Price is one thing profit margin is
another. In addition governments themselves must be responsible in their taxation policy. If taxes are
lower, and people use the fuel, the same money is made and the cost is lower, price down volume
up, same money at the end of the day. At the same time new energy sources can be found by science
and if done over time the price of those products would be about the same as innovation and perfecting
the new resource would be phased in to be the new norm.
We don't need a revolution of change, we need to ensure we have a continuous evolution of change.
Mankind works the same way, impose something on the they rebel, educate and demonstrate you have
a better way and people respond. For example I drive a full sized Silverado 1996 to be exact. I like it and
prefer it to the new ones and be damned if I will change that. Besides I don't need a new one when the
one I have is in good shape. Everyone looks at just changing the pricing or the distribution or changing
the driving habits of people, what they don't realize to do any of this in isolation will cause a huge and
ugly disruption of society. We need to phase in change with new ideas, and technology, that takes into
account the total impact on society and the world economies at the same time. I predict with new ideas
and science we could leave hundreds of years worth of oil in the ground because we moved on without it.
@dg
Change will come about naturally as it always has in the past. We just need to make sure we have a government that does not stifle innovation.
In terms of Oil, there is no obvious substitute on the horizon (ie all the products that are made from oil).
The only realistic substitute to energy from oil is nuclear energy. This means we are substituting one set of problems for another set.
Change will come about naturally as it always has in the past. We just need to make sure we have a government that does not stifle innovation.
In terms of Oil, there is no obvious substitute on the horizon (ie all the products that are made from oil).
The only realistic substitute to energy from oil is nuclear energy. This means we are substituting one set of problems for another set.
And when people have to pay tax, they simply demand more from their employers, so people don't pay tax, it's simply an expense that is passed on to their employers.
Keep in mind every increase in fuel costs is an increase in everything else especially food. The supermarket is where fuel costs hit you the most. In the last year a very large portion of items have doubled in price.
It's just not filling up at the pumps that is getting out of hand, it's filling up with nutritious food at the diningroom table that is hitting the consumer the hardest.
When unmitigated greed in one sector forces unwanted prices increases in another it is those at the very bottom who get hit the hardest.
Even if you ride a bike or walk you are paying heavily into the hands of the most corrupt industry on the planet.
It's just not filling up at the pumps that is getting out of hand, it's filling up with nutritious food at the diningroom table that is hitting the consumer the hardest.
When unmitigated greed in one sector forces unwanted prices increases in another it is those at the very bottom who get hit the hardest.
Even if you ride a bike or walk you are paying heavily into the hands of the most corrupt industry on the planet.
Petros the food system is a little different in that not all of the cost is from transportation or
weather. Food chains maintain Profit Margins regardless, It does not reflect altogether what
is happening around them they simply don't care. That is why wage and price controls don't
work and were more of a field good measure in the 1970's when things were bad. I say the
only way to reflect that in a changing of society is if required (God Forbid) that, that type of
policy were to come back for a short period insist on wage, price and profit margin controls.
Yes the price of everything goes up with the fuel cost increases and that is a major problem
as it impacts taxation itself, not to mention jobs and the well being of the economy in general.
Why is that? Again because we instituted CHEAP as the prime motivating factor for buying
a product of service instead of insisting on value. That in itself impacts the environment and
the job market. We hear cost cutting and saving everywhere, companies downsizing, and
governments looking for the lowest bid, people demanding wages in some sectors being cut.
Look at the impact of that. Downsizing puts people out of work so those who are working have
their taxes increased because the fixed costs of society are still there to be paid. companies
hire the cheapest bid to do their work and in the case of the high rises on the west coast the
roof leaks cost more to repair than the real costs would have been to build them properly.
We see governments get quotes that lend themselves to work that is not completed properly.
In many cases the original company that got paid goes broke and someone else has to be
hired to repair it and that usually costs more than doing it right the first time.
Many demand wage cuts which in turn impact small business as people don't have disposable
income to distribute through the community. Even when it comes to parliamentary pensions,
we miss the boat. We are fixated on someones pension while we fail to see the slight of hand
where that government gives out billions in tax breaks to their friends, regardless of what side
of the political divide they are on. Pensions are the least of our worries when it comes to
government expenditures.
I am of the opinion we have to change the entire way we approach our economy and we can
start anywhere. even with the price of gas. Unless we are prepared to go slow and figure out
how to ensure minimum impact on society in general, we are doomed to failure. Ever notice
government implements a policy and then tax exempts all the things that are negatively
impacting the economy? That is because it was failed policy to begin with. We have to take a
look at government departments and ensure they are working together instead of for their own
preservation.
Farming for example, everything from the cost of gas, oil and diesel, to on farm safety and
stewardship practices touches on almost every aspect of government departmental regulation.
First their is fuel costs from farm use to getting the fuel to the farm, Transportation Department.
Good farm integrated pest management systems. impact Environment Ministry and Health.
Having a disaster
Depending on the farm operation other areas are effected
Fisheries
Forestry
Education
Municipalities
Labour Department
Taxation
Highways
And yet in all my time farming, I have yet to see these groups working together to solve the issues
surrounding agriculture.
This is true of manufacturing, construction, forestry, and others
Let me single out forestry, they burn leftovers in the forest and today they impact the health ministry
and emergency rooms with people who suffer from lung and respiratory failure.
Today Government doesn't work because it doesn't work together. Can you imagine how much
money we would save as a society if we actually had government instituting policies that work and
work across departmental lines?
You can start with fuel, or science or medicine or anywhere else, but if we don't address the issues
with an integrated policy we are doomed to failure because we have constructed an society where
we are interdependent on each other for our social and financial well being.
Fuel cost problems are not as simple as riding a bike, or build more or less roads, or enacting a
series of law, regulations and taxes to get results. It has been done before and without much real
success. We have to determine what we want to achieve, and how together we might do that and
what it will look like, and who benefits when we are finished.
In my mind we for the most part don't even understand the real problems let alone what the solutions
might be. I am afraid one of my favorite sayings could come true. We together must make some
serious decisions ourselves, or some very unpleasant decisions will be made for us out of sheer
circumstance.
weather. Food chains maintain Profit Margins regardless, It does not reflect altogether what
is happening around them they simply don't care. That is why wage and price controls don't
work and were more of a field good measure in the 1970's when things were bad. I say the
only way to reflect that in a changing of society is if required (God Forbid) that, that type of
policy were to come back for a short period insist on wage, price and profit margin controls.
Yes the price of everything goes up with the fuel cost increases and that is a major problem
as it impacts taxation itself, not to mention jobs and the well being of the economy in general.
Why is that? Again because we instituted CHEAP as the prime motivating factor for buying
a product of service instead of insisting on value. That in itself impacts the environment and
the job market. We hear cost cutting and saving everywhere, companies downsizing, and
governments looking for the lowest bid, people demanding wages in some sectors being cut.
Look at the impact of that. Downsizing puts people out of work so those who are working have
their taxes increased because the fixed costs of society are still there to be paid. companies
hire the cheapest bid to do their work and in the case of the high rises on the west coast the
roof leaks cost more to repair than the real costs would have been to build them properly.
We see governments get quotes that lend themselves to work that is not completed properly.
In many cases the original company that got paid goes broke and someone else has to be
hired to repair it and that usually costs more than doing it right the first time.
Many demand wage cuts which in turn impact small business as people don't have disposable
income to distribute through the community. Even when it comes to parliamentary pensions,
we miss the boat. We are fixated on someones pension while we fail to see the slight of hand
where that government gives out billions in tax breaks to their friends, regardless of what side
of the political divide they are on. Pensions are the least of our worries when it comes to
government expenditures.
I am of the opinion we have to change the entire way we approach our economy and we can
start anywhere. even with the price of gas. Unless we are prepared to go slow and figure out
how to ensure minimum impact on society in general, we are doomed to failure. Ever notice
government implements a policy and then tax exempts all the things that are negatively
impacting the economy? That is because it was failed policy to begin with. We have to take a
look at government departments and ensure they are working together instead of for their own
preservation.
Farming for example, everything from the cost of gas, oil and diesel, to on farm safety and
stewardship practices touches on almost every aspect of government departmental regulation.
First their is fuel costs from farm use to getting the fuel to the farm, Transportation Department.
Good farm integrated pest management systems. impact Environment Ministry and Health.
Having a disaster
Depending on the farm operation other areas are effected
Fisheries
Forestry
Education
Municipalities
Labour Department
Taxation
Highways
And yet in all my time farming, I have yet to see these groups working together to solve the issues
surrounding agriculture.
This is true of manufacturing, construction, forestry, and others
Let me single out forestry, they burn leftovers in the forest and today they impact the health ministry
and emergency rooms with people who suffer from lung and respiratory failure.
Today Government doesn't work because it doesn't work together. Can you imagine how much
money we would save as a society if we actually had government instituting policies that work and
work across departmental lines?
You can start with fuel, or science or medicine or anywhere else, but if we don't address the issues
with an integrated policy we are doomed to failure because we have constructed an society where
we are interdependent on each other for our social and financial well being.
Fuel cost problems are not as simple as riding a bike, or build more or less roads, or enacting a
series of law, regulations and taxes to get results. It has been done before and without much real
success. We have to determine what we want to achieve, and how together we might do that and
what it will look like, and who benefits when we are finished.
In my mind we for the most part don't even understand the real problems let alone what the solutions
might be. I am afraid one of my favorite sayings could come true. We together must make some
serious decisions ourselves, or some very unpleasant decisions will be made for us out of sheer
circumstance.
One thing that is definitely happening is that with the increases in fuel costs, cheap imports from China aren't as cheap, because of the fuel costs.
All those fresh vegetables we see all winter, flown in from the south, will become too expensive. I remember when strawberries were a June thing, fresh from the fields. Now, they're in the stores year-round. Flown in on a 777 from the south every day.
All those fresh vegetables we see all winter, flown in from the south, will become too expensive. I remember when strawberries were a June thing, fresh from the fields. Now, they're in the stores year-round. Flown in on a 777 from the south every day.
Thanks to the availability of plenty of energy to be able to make this happen.
I guess, maybe on a relative scale, energy is cheap.
If it was so expensive, this would not happen and you would only get your stawberries once a month or only a couple of times a yr.
I have mentioned this before on this forum, oil is cheap. We are just too used to getting it really cheap.
It's cheaper than;
-a cup of coffee
-lite of milk
-bottle of water
- etc
Etc
We just have to get used to it like we did to the price of Strbks coffee..
Similarly, businesses can't always pass on the extra costs of taxation to their customers.
That old line about how 'businesses don't pay tax' is complete garbage.
There are some awefully delusional people out there have lost perspective of why i own a gas guzzling truck. They make it sound like i am an insnsitive guy living in excess.
Well, i have news for those self righteous pricks. I am from a generation that built their own garages, fences, patio decks. I haul firewood, top soil, and gravel. When my friends and family need to move their household belongings, i get up off the friggin couch and not only lend them the vehicle to do the job, i put my back into it too.
I am a blue collar worker, i dont have the time or money for a lake front vacation home or a trip to a fancy resort. When i need to get away, i hook onto a 20 year old RV and pull it out to a campground...a job that is impossible with a small car. And if it was possible to do it in multiple trips, you would see that a small car can really guzzle gas when used for more than moving your butt to and from your armchair at the office.
Keep thinking that you have it all figured out. And then call me next time you need a practical vehicle.
Well, i have news for those self righteous pricks. I am from a generation that built their own garages, fences, patio decks. I haul firewood, top soil, and gravel. When my friends and family need to move their household belongings, i get up off the friggin couch and not only lend them the vehicle to do the job, i put my back into it too.
I am a blue collar worker, i dont have the time or money for a lake front vacation home or a trip to a fancy resort. When i need to get away, i hook onto a 20 year old RV and pull it out to a campground...a job that is impossible with a small car. And if it was possible to do it in multiple trips, you would see that a small car can really guzzle gas when used for more than moving your butt to and from your armchair at the office.
Keep thinking that you have it all figured out. And then call me next time you need a practical vehicle.
When business can't pass on the taxes to their customers they move on to a more friendly environment like China or India or go bankrupt.
Actually the energy we consume will be more costly all the time especially water.
The governments are looking at new legislation for water as the commodity has
a lot of competition for use. Agriculture is competing with subdivisions for the
use of water in many parts of the country. China won't be exporting quality food
much longer they will be importing and the prices here will rise because of it.
The other thing someone mentioned that cheap goods won't be cheap because
of fuel. This is true, a whole new industry came about because it was too expensive
to send containers back to their country of origin and thus companies like Big Steel
Box and others, sold in Canada and else where for storage.
The only real solution would have to come from international governments when they
decide to outlaw speculation when it threatens the economic stability. That time will
come without a doubt.
The governments are looking at new legislation for water as the commodity has
a lot of competition for use. Agriculture is competing with subdivisions for the
use of water in many parts of the country. China won't be exporting quality food
much longer they will be importing and the prices here will rise because of it.
The other thing someone mentioned that cheap goods won't be cheap because
of fuel. This is true, a whole new industry came about because it was too expensive
to send containers back to their country of origin and thus companies like Big Steel
Box and others, sold in Canada and else where for storage.
The only real solution would have to come from international governments when they
decide to outlaw speculation when it threatens the economic stability. That time will
come without a doubt.
Yup, we need the Donald and Sarah in the White House. That will fix everything, Yup!
