Socialism Is the Only Way

[Zzarchov]

I doubt if Mugabe was ever free iART, sure the overt colonial rape ended but the covert rape by the WTO, world bank and the IMF most likely accelerated. The whites ain't gone ART.

I find your belief that being greedy is something only whites are capable of disturbing. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, race had nothing to do with it?

That maybe, just maybe, it was all about money and power?

If Zimbabwe was animal farm, Mugabe and his ilk are the pigs. And the story is going the same way.

 

[s243a]

A second note (in the interest of a fair debate) is Cuba would not be a rich nation if it were capitalist and democratic.

If you believe that Cuba is poor and full of beggars because its communist you should really travel to the rest of the carribean (like Haiti, a capitalist state and North America's oldest true democracy).

Compared to its neighbours, Cuba is a case of a successful communist state.

Do you really believe Haiti to be a shining example of free market enterprise?

 

[s243a]

United Fruit and Standard Fruits (now renamed Dole and Chiquita) were brutal organizations that took over regions when they consolidated too much power. Corporations are no different than any other group of people (religions, political parties, police forces, militaries) when they get too powerful and take over, bad things happen.

In the case of United Fruit and Standard Fruit, who were literal empires with private militaries (who fought each other), Police forces, prisons (as well as school and other civil infrastructure, including communications and transportation monopolies).

This is why we have the competition board. It has been said before that sometimes conservatism is more about protecting business then encouraging free market enterprise.

 

[Albertabound]

You were absent from the most important government program, education. Perhaps you were there a few days but you missed spelling class, social studies class and, if you did attend history class, it must have been taught by the supply teacher who carried Mao's Red Book and used it instead of the western curriculum.

Walter, who in your mind creates the history books and social studies books that you feel are part of the most important government program....education. To what benefit have these classes benefited you personally? Do you know the truth behind history or do you just accept what you have been told is history. Sorry but the western curriculum is not history, it is all part of the programming.

 

[Walter]

To what benefit have these classes benefited you personally?

I am able to think for myself.

 

[lone wolf]

This is why we have the competition board. It has been said before that sometimes conservatism is more about protecting business then encouraging free market enterprise.

Competition boards mean nothing beyond your borders - if they even existed at the time we're speaking. When the monopoly is held by someone who's just greased your palm, you're going to look the other way - or over your shoulder for the rest of your life.

A little research could be your friend.

Woof

 

[Albertabound]

I am able to think for myself.

So in your mind history and social studies class has allowed you to think for your self.. huh. How does a class like history that invloves "telling" you what has happened in the past, that has been published using the western cirriculum has allowed you to think for your self. If you were able to think for your self you might question what you have been told is history......That's thinking for your self

 

[gopher]

``Socialism in Canada works gopher, I can get me broken body fixed because I pay through my employment tax deductions along with my fellow citizens``


I don't see that as ''socialism''. Instead, it is a mixed economy using the most utilitarian ideas that can be gleaned from a variety of social theories. It works in England and in Europe and used to work quite well in the USA until some idiots came up with Reaganomics.

 

[jimshort19]

Zzarchov, "... you really should read a book..."

Excellent idea, but books are too long.

Zzarchov, "Saying 'so what if American's like Banana's' about those two companies is somewhat akin to saying 'So what if people liked cotton' about slavery."

Quite so. But if the object is to bash America, taking 2 examples of Americans behaving badly on foreign continents in previous centuries is both desperate and revealing of
some problem other than a dim penchant for black humour.

Zzarchov, "If you believe that Cuba is poor and full of beggars because its communist you should really travel to the rest of the carribean (like Haiti, a capitalist state and North America's oldest true democracy). Compared to its neighbours, Cuba is a case of a successful communist state."

I didn't even know that Haiti was in North America. Anyway, you admit of admiring the 'successful communist state' of Cuba, not a crime, just ridiculous. As for the truth of democracy in Haiti, we cannot be thinking of the same country.

 

[darkbeaver]

You were absent from the most important government program, education. Perhaps you were there a few days but you missed spelling class, social studies class and, if you did attend history class, it must have been taught by the supply teacher who carried Mao's Red Book and used it instead of the western curriculum.

Well Walter you have finally produced a couple of sentences. Yes my spelling is atrocious my social studies is lacking and my history is rusty, I was taught my trade by a Serbian who learned the skills in a German concentration camp during WW2. Western curriculum is largely revisionist garbage much like Readers Digest stuff. As far as formal education goes I am a graduate of vocational school, heavy equipment mechanic class of 72. Now if you'd be so kind as to exchange your credentials we can talk.

 

[darkbeaver]

``Socialism in Canada works gopher, I can get me broken body fixed because I pay through my employment tax deductions along with my fellow citizens``


I don't see that as ''socialism''. Instead, it is a mixed economy using the most utilitarian ideas that can be gleaned from a variety of social theories. It works in England and in Europe and used to work quite well in the USA until some idiots came up with Reaganomics.

Well if you'd get rid of your idiots before they get rid of the rest of humanity we'ed have no problem would we. You don't see that as socialism well thousands of rich people do. Most utilitarian social theories are socialist aren't they?

 

[darkbeaver]

I find your belief that being greedy is something only whites are capable of disturbing. Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, race had nothing to do with it?

That maybe, just maybe, it was all about money and power?

If Zimbabwe was animal farm, Mugabe and his ilk are the pigs. And the story is going the same way.

I find your belief that I believe that strange, you introduced the word white, right. It was all about money and power, both of those elements cross the colour barrier with ease as you are well aware.

 

[lone wolf]

Zzarchov, "... you really should read a book..."

Excellent idea, but books are too long.

It saves making a lot of words without substance.

Zzarchov, "Saying 'so what if American's like Banana's' about those two companies is somewhat akin to saying 'So what if people liked cotton' about slavery."

Quite so. But if the object is to bash America, taking 2 examples of Americans behaving badly on foreign continents in previous centuries is both desperate and revealing of
some problem other than a dim penchant for black humour.

The object is give an example of pure capitalism at its worst. The fact they both happen to be American companies also happens to be the fact they are the best-known examples. It could have been yesterday for all it matters, or even two weeks from Tuesday. Has the behaviour of greed got any better?

Zzarchov, "If you believe that Cuba is poor and full of beggars because its communist you should really travel to the rest of the carribean (like Haiti, a capitalist state and North America's oldest true democracy). Compared to its neighbours, Cuba is a case of a successful communist state."

I didn't even know that Haiti was in North America. Anyway, you admit of admiring the 'successful communist state' of Cuba, not a crime, just ridiculous. As for the truth of democracy in Haiti, we cannot be thinking of the same country.

Haiti and the Dominican Republic are only the next island east. If Cuba is considered North America, then Haiti can claim the same. There was no admiration hinted for a communist state. There was an observation made that the economy of socialist Cuba has fared better than that of capitalist Haiti.

What's so hard to understand?

Woof!

 

[gopher]

``Most utilitarian social theories are socialist aren't they?``


There is some truth to that. More correctly, these theorists have been influenced by socialism or its early forms.

For example, there can be no doubt that FD Roosevelt was the greatest president we ever had. He based his ideas on the writings of John Quincy Adams whom in turn, was influenced by Governor De Witt Clinton of NYS. All were influenced by utilitarianism --- that is the idea that pragmatic social programs that promote the common good and build up the infrastructure are best for society. These efforts entail the utilization of public and private resources. Thus, they are the result of a mixed economy.

True, we need to be rid of these pestilential and parasitic reich wingers so that we can become a better Nation once again. But in order to do so, we must end the ignorance and apathy that has caused people to succumb to the influence of the right wing evildoers.

Hopefully, exchanges such as the type we are having here will go a long way towards doing just that.

 

[CDNBear]

bad things happen.

???!!! Understatement of the week.

Hell countries and their leaders were over thrown by the CIA so big American business could continue raping and pilidging.

If you believe that Cuba is poor and full of beggars because its communist you should really travel to the rest of the carribean (like Haiti, a capitalist state and North America's oldest true democracy).

Though I agree with the former, the latter, you and I have discussed in the past...the Haudenosaunee(read Iroquois by the French racists) were and are the oldest participatory democracy in the world.

Malcolm Martin has good intentions but socialism has never worked nor will it ever do so. The better way is for a mixed economy where the pursuit of justice is the governing principle behind all policy.

The smartest thing you've ever typed...good on ya Gopher.

So in your mind history and social studies class has allowed you to think for your self.. huh. How does a class like history that invloves "telling" you what has happened in the past, that has been published using the western cirriculum has allowed you to think for your self. If you were able to think for your self you might question what you have been told is history......That's thinking for your self

Actually AB, I'm old enough that when I was in history class, in school, we were tought that brontosauraus's had two brains, because they were so big, scientists could not fathom how the small one they had, could communicate with the whole of its body.

But we know differently now.

Somewhere along the way, we were tought analytical thought, critical thought, we have seen things that made us question and we ran with the question, looking for answers.

But we all find the answers we are looking for.

Only the true visionaries, seek what they are not looking for.

``Socialism in Canada works gopher, I can get me broken body fixed because I pay through my employment tax deductions along with my fellow citizens``


I don't see that as ''socialism''. Instead, it is a mixed economy using the most utilitarian ideas that can be gleaned from a variety of social theories. It works in England and in Europe and used to work quite well in the USA until some idiots came up with Reaganomics.

I disagree that it is working England or Europe.

England is aproaching a police state, France is mired in proests, Holland has had to enacted laws that will exclude people that they find undesirable. Economies are strained, inflation is growing...

So what exactly is working there?

So far it's looking kinda grim.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

I doubt if Mugabe was ever free iART, sure the overt colonial rape ended but the covert rape by the WTO, world bank and the IMF most likely accelerated. The whites ain't gone ART.

Pulease! The whites who were run off their land? You can call it rape if you want, beaver, but people were eating. Mugabe is in full controll when he displaces actual farmers for political cronies. That is what has done in Zimbabwe. That is what he said he would do, give the land back, and that is what he did, now the blacks "have" the land but the famers are gone.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

???!!! Understatement of the week.

Hell countries and their leaders were over thrown by the CIA so big American business could continue raping and pilidging.
Though I agree with the former, the latter, you and I have discussed in the past...the Haudenosaunee(read Iroquois by the French racists) were and are the oldest participatory democracy in the world.


The smartest thing you've ever typed...good on ya Gopher.

Actually AB, I'm old enough that when I was in history class, in school, we were tought that brontosauraus's had two brains, because they were so big, scientists could not fathom how the small one they had, could communicate with the whole of its body.

But we know differently now.

Somewhere along the way, we were tought analytical thought, critical thought, we have seen things that made us question and we ran with the question, looking for answers.

But we all find the answers we are looking for.

Only the true visionaries, seek what they are not looking for.



I disagree that it is working England or Europe.

England is aproaching a police state, France is mired in proests, Holland has had to enacted laws that will exclude people that they find undesirable. Economies are strained, inflation is growing...

So what exactly is working there?

So far it's looking kinda grim.

So, is there any Nation that comes close to being sort of alright? Has anyone got it, yet? I doubt it. And I doubt it will be a society that is strictly any onething or based on just one viewpoint. There are too many of us for that kind of concensus. Just look at this thread.

 

[darkbeaver]

``Most utilitarian social theories are socialist aren't they?``


There is some truth to that. More correctly, these theorists have been influenced by socialism or its early forms.

For example, there can be no doubt that FD Roosevelt was the greatest president we ever had. He based his ideas on the writings of John Quincy Adams whom in turn, was influenced by Governor De Witt Clinton of NYS. All were influenced by utilitarianism --- that is the idea that pragmatic social programs that promote the common good and build up the infrastructure are best for society. These efforts entail the utilization of public and private resources. Thus, they are the result of a mixed economy.

True, we need to be rid of these pestilential and parasitic reich wingers so that we can become a better Nation once again. But in order to do so, we must end the ignorance and apathy that has caused people to succumb to the influence of the right wing evildoers.

Hopefully, exchanges such as the type we are having here will go a long way towards doing just that.

I agree with exchange and discussion that leads to the identification of the enemy of mankind and social progress. We can readily see the organizations which control and perpetuate the misery and war. The WTO, G7, IMF, WB, OECD all these are set up to destroy socialism in all forms and to ensure the rich what they consider thier birthright, ownership of the planet and every man woman and child on it. Mechanisms such as MAI we're not proposed for the good of the many but rather constitute a strangulation of the last remaining vestiges of national soverignty. What is required is wholesale revolution and before the mechanism of the global police state have become permanently entrenched. We can talk all we want but if we do not eventually march then all the discussion will have been for nothing, worse than useless hot air.The enemy of fascism and monarchys has always been social democracy in any and all it's forms, what little we still enjoy was only grudgeingly allowed by our masters, and only because we protested ,we marched, we demonstrated ,and finally we revolted, there is no substitute for revolution, never has been and never will be.

 

[iARTthere4iam]

So vote for a wealth ceiling that you could live with Zzarchov, nobody mentioned stripping your assets and sticking you in grey overalls. Collective programes such as our medicare are the most cost effective, that type of programe can and does work accross the board. I would be in favour of a modified mixed economy but with no opulent useless upper class. Individual initative can be rewarded and the needs of the majority can still be addressed simultaneously. Of course the rich ain't going to tell you that are they? Pure socialism is many generations in the future if it happens at all, and I agree with you I wouldn't like it myself. We will very shortly witness what happens when pure capitalism unwinds, again.

A mixed economy? Like what we already have? Our economy is both capitalistic, socialistic and modified by scores of regulations, laws, land and money transfers.

What should we consider opulent? How much is enough or too much. This is an arbitrary sum and who should get to decide?

We are not a pure capitalist society, nor are we a direct or true democracy, we are not purely socialist nor have we ever been.

Basically you don't like rich people and don't see why they should have so much, but by condeming "capitalists" you also condem all the sole proprieters, and small businesses that make up the majority of employers and the engine of true capitalism. Enterprise is an excellent way for people to make a living.

 

[jimshort19]

Dark Beaver, "The WTO, G7, IMF, WB, OECD all these are set up to destroy socialism..."

You forgot the U.N, motherhood, and that second most nefarious invention, apple pie. But the U.S. was set up by evil doers as a weapon against humanity. The fix is in. And all this goes to show why I'm not rich and powerful.