So, you are saying this is a bad thing? Onward into the abyss!
You still sound like Opus Dei to me. Shall we bring back the Inquisition? I bet that would please you to no end.
So You Want to be King/Queen...
- Thread starter Spade
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You still sound like Opus Dei to me. Shall we bring back the Inquisition? I bet that would please you to no end.
I capitalize it because the maxims of society founded on moral relativism and radical individualism by necessity reduces the Devil to an allegorical fiction.. an anachronism in cotemporary culture... a figment of the religious imagination. So i am willing to the give the Devil his due.. rather than make myself prostrate before his will.. by denying his (and God's) existence.
If you ask me, the Devil's real work is being done by those who would seek to exploit the equal marriage issue to divide people into "us" v. "them," as you do, coldstream; by those who would--with viciousness--call out their own brothers and sisters (lesbian and gay people) as some apocalyptic harbingers, as you do.
Unlike you, I am unwilling to raise the devil to the same level as God and my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Unlike you, I give importance where importance is due. The devil is not "due" anything. Only his inconsequential minions feel he is "due" anything.
I respect Opus Dei but am not an acolyte. My allegiance within the Catholic Church is to the Fraternal Society of St. Peter.. which champions the re-establishment of the Tridentine Latin Mass and other Latin sacraments.. at the centre of liturgical life.. which has been hopelessly obfuscated, denuded of its mystery and Protestanized by the Novus Ordo (the vernacular modern Mass).
And don't fall for Dan Brown's picture of Opus Dei, Cliffy.. that was about making Brown a fortune.. not about truth.
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Satan is alive and doing well in Christianity. Some may no believe in it but most give it way too much attention, feedings it ego.
I'm not a Catholic (don't like cats much at all), but seems to me the vernacular Mass, though well-intentioned, was badly timed. Right about the time they passed (or whatever the word is) the vernacular mass at Vatican II, international travel and migration exploded. So Catholics were travelling to countries whose languages they didn't speak, and if they went to Mass, they got all confused. Even though just about nobody spoke Latin, regular churchgoers mostly had the Latin Mass down by heart and had heard it translated and explained in their religious classes. Seems to me that the Latin Mass with the sermon in the vernacular would be ideal for the modern world with its language diversity and heavy travel and migration.
That, of course, is just the practical view. I don't know much about the philosophical or theological arguments.
Latin is a dead language. It killed the Romans. Why have a mass that nobody understands? What is the point? Latin was used to keep people ignorant and raise the mystique that only the church had the inside track to god. It was and is BS. We don't need intermediaries to have a personal relationship with our creator. The church is nothing more than a political institution with a lust for power and control over the minions. If you prefer to have a lord and master pulling your chain, join an S&M club.
The only philosophical or theological arguments would be to return the Church to the dark ages.
I thought that was the Germans. And the Huns. And the lead-lined wine vats.
Well, as I just pointed out in my stunningly intelligent and observant post, actually every older Catholic raised with the Latin Mass I ever met understood it perfectly.
Is that why scientists and naturalists used it as a lingua franca well into the nineteenth century?
Wouldn't that be FT? Faecus taurus?
Well, to be accurate, you don't. Clearly some folk do.
You and me generally are pretty much on the same page on the whole religion thing, Cliffy, but I think this time you're taking it a mite too far. My take on it is: keep it off my property, outta my face, and out of the civil laws, and elsewise do what thou wilt.
It's no sillier than fanatic loyalty to a corporate logo like the Baltimore Ravens or the Calgary Flames.
Might could be a good place for it.
:roll: Latin sacralizes the aural space of the Mass.. much as Stained Glass sacralizes its light. And Latin is far from dead, it is a vibrant, mystical and robust language.. and importantly it universalizes worship in common a parlance and understanding.. in a world fragmented into a Tower of Babel. Any proper missal will give you all you need to know of liturgical Latin.. i don't underestimate the intelligence of the lay worshipper.
Got a point. I once heard the Latin Mass sung by a priest who had a wonderful baritone. I ain't a believer at all, but even I could see how it made that Mass something special.
I feel your vibes man.
The language of the Mass is very important to the Rites. Frequencies of sound and vibration are a big part of tuning the minds of those involved into the same frequencies.
English can't replicate those frequencies.
The language of the Mass is very important to the Rites. Frequencies of sound and vibration are a big part of tuning the minds of those involved into the same frequencies.
English can't replicate those frequencies.
Unfortunately, Church Latin is a pale imitation of how Classical Latin was spoken and written. Syntax and pronunciation are not true to the original forms. For example, getting back to king and emperors, Caesar was pronounced as Kaisar is in German.
Empires and their religions, like "golden girls and lads, all must; all come to this, all come to dust!"
When Caesar and his legions swept into Gaul, he is recorded as saying, "VENI, VIDI, VICI," which, correctly pronounced, is "Waney, Weedy, Weeky." Yep, I am getting the quivvers.
Yet I'm sure you understand the fact that so long as the system remains as it is, the Monarch of Canada will always be the same physical person as the Monarch of the UK.
And let me insist on this question.
Should the Monarch of Canada decide to convert to catholicism, would he or she be allowed to remain Monarch of Canada?
Good job at oozing out of this one.
The fact is that it would be discrimination in the case of the Prime Minister and you accept a double standard when it comes to the Head of State, who can only be protestant. So much for equality of religion.
Well put. In a secular society, official restriction on who can become head of state because of religion is intolerable, Or, that one's head of state can only be Anglican... This anachronism is a remnant of the divine right of kings, of Henry's daliances, of the "Reformation" in England, of anti-papism, of state-sponsored discrimination.
From the Encyclopaedia Britannica, quote:
"After the Reformation, Roman Catholics in Britain had been harassed by numerous restrictions. In Britain, Roman Catholics could not purchase land, hold civil or military offices or seats in Parliament, inherit property, or practice their religion freely without incurring civil penalties. A Roman Catholic in Ireland could not vote in Parliamentary elections and could be readily dispossessed of his land by his nearest Protestant relative."
Yep, this is one burning issue, all right. I calculate all over Britain millions of people are telling their heart-broken kids "No, I'm sorry Junior, you can't be king because you're Catholic. If only this brutal and repressive fascist law were repealed, there would be absolutely nothing standing between you and the throne."
Thank you for advocating making children's lives a little more pleasant. Now, in America, say if a child were born in Canada, later moved to the States, became a citizen if the USA, could she become president? This anti-Arnold-Schwarzenegger law must break many hearts...
Arnold Schwarzenegger: Life's 6 Rules - YouTube