So is this a wakeup call for canadians who had their their heads ...................

[Cliffy]

OK I'm gonna take you seriously for just a minute....and enlighten you.

The cause of World War Two was NOT the Treaty of Versailles and the (completely unreasonable) reparation clauses there in......

The cause of World War Two was the abject failure of the allies to ENFORCE the Treaty of Versailles as Germany re-armed and proceeded to grab territory through intimidation.

It was appeasement that set it off........

Appeasement of genocidal fascists is suicidal.....be they Nazis or Islamists.

It was a way for the world to get out of the great depression. Thar's money to be made in dem dere corpses.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

OK I'm gonna take you seriously for just a minute....and enlighten you.

The cause of World War Two was NOT the Treaty of Versailles and the (completely unreasonable) reparation clauses there in......

I didn't say it was. It was an aggravating circumstance, and I would call it A cause, but not THE cause. My whole point in this thread is that these things are far too complex for such concepts as single causes and good guy/bad guy paradigms.

The cause of World War Two was the abject failure of the allies to ENFORCE the Treaty of Versailles as Germany re-armed and proceeded to grab territory through intimidation.

It was appeasement that set it off........

Appeasement of genocidal fascists is suicidal.....be they Nazis or Islamists.

Sorry, ain't buying. The Allies didn't much give a rap about the Shoah. They cared about the German expansion.

I'm no more fond of fascism than you appear to be. But it's more complex than that.

 

[CDNBear]

My whole point in this thread is that these things are far too complex for such concepts as single causes and good guy/bad guy paradigms.

That may be on a broad scale sitting at a monitor.

But at street level, lofty ideals are deadly.

It comes right down to, good guy v bad guy.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Barring a valid rebuttal, I graciously accept your defeat.

You have an odd idea of "gracious." But if you want to declare victory and congratulate yourself on what a brilliant fellow you are, be my guest. Hang a "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" banner.

If you're more interested in debating ideas, I'd be glad to continue.

 

[CDNBear]

If you're more interested in debating ideas, I'd be glad to continue.

With regards to your original error, you never began. You just resorted to fallacy.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

That may be on a broad scale sitting at a monitor.

But at street level, lofty ideals are deadly.

It comes right down to, good guy v bad guy.

As one of the bad guys, I'm forced to disagree.

 

[CDNBear]

As one of the bad guys, I'm forced to disagree.

Feel free, lol, reality dictates how wrong you are.

As the OP so clearly shows.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

With regards to your original error, you never began. You just resorted to fallacy.

I didn't make an error, but thanks.

I said it's never been possible to tell who the "good guys" are. Not from any objective point of view. As is evidenced by the fact that fairly normal, intelligent people of good will on both sides of every war in history have seen themselves as the "good guys."

 

[CDNBear]

I didn't make an error, but thanks.

Ummm, ya, you did, and you managed to reiterate it in your post, lol.

I said it's never been possible to tell who the "good guys" are.

Actually, you said you could never tell the bad guys from the good guys.

You most certainly can in many cases, including the one I previously posited.

Not from any objective point of view. As is evidenced by the fact that fairly normal, intelligent people of good will on both sides of every war in history have seen themselves as the "good guys."

Back to the philosophical BS I see, lol. Just an FYI, around these parts, facts trump philosophical baffle gab.

The post that you replied to with your original erroneous statement pertained to radicals, terrorists, and such, not 'wars'.

And gain, down to street level, we have the victims, who don't see themselves as good or bad, just victims. Hence my original example, that clearly puts to bed your philosophical nonsense.

It's fine to be all lofty and feel good philosophical, but at some point in time, one has to get a grasp on reality, where the metal meets the bone.

But please do go on, you are, at the very least, entertaining.

 

[Goober]

The good guys in WWI were the Swiss.
The Americans call the Seven Years War the "Indian Wars," so it can't be Bear and company.
And, in the Vietnam War, it was the children.

Swiss- Check how they robbed the Jews- turned them away. Cooperated with the Gestapo. No innocents there.

 

[Spade]

Scratch the Swiss, and add the Icelanders.

 

[SLM]

Swiss- Check how they robbed the Jews- turned them away. Cooperated with the Gestapo. No innocents there.

Sometimes doing nothing can be the most evil thing you can do.

Scratch the Swiss, and add the Icelanders.

Icelanders are cool.

 

[Spade]

I like their hidden people.

 

[CDNBear]

I like their hidden people.

You must, this is the second time that I can recollect you mentioning them, lol.

 

[Spade]

I do. The hidden people have never harmed a soul. Diverted a highway, perhaps; appeared in a saga or so, or saved a large rock or two, but never harmed anyone.

 

[Goober]

Scratch the Swiss, and add the Icelanders.

Better choice

Iceland during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Ummm, ya, you did, and you managed to reiterate it in your post, lol.

Actually, you said you could never tell the bad guys from the good guys.

That's true. Cliffy said "You can't tell the bad guys from the good guys any more." I responded "You never could."

You most certainly can in many cases, including the one I previously posited.

I'll agree with you there, which if you like you may take as a concession, seeing as how you seem to need that so badly.

In any conflict (or any non-conflict) there are "bad guys" and "good guys." But it's usually painted overbroadly. The Nazis were bad guys. The Germans weren't. And I don't really think Churchill, Roosevelt, and Stalin were good guys. They did too many bad things to qualify.

Back to the philosophical BS I see, lol. Just an FYI, around these parts, facts trump philosophical baffle gab.

Isn't this a philosophical discussion?

The post that you replied to with your original erroneous statement pertained to radicals, terrorists, and such, not 'wars'.

Radicals are not necessarily bad guys. Terrorism is so loose a term that I'll need your definition before I can argue it.

And gain, down to street level, we have the victims, who don't see themselves as good or bad, just victims. Hence my original example, that clearly puts to bed your philosophical nonsense.

It's fine to be all lofty and feel good philosophical, but at some point in time, one has to get a grasp on reality, where the metal meets the bone.

Have you ever been in a situation where the metal meets the bone?

But please do go on, you are, at the very least, entertaining.

We seem to have started badly, which was mostly my fault. I agree that I shifted the paradigm a lot from the OP, though I had help with that.

 

[Goober]

I do. The hidden people have never harmed a soul. Diverted a highway, perhaps; appeared in a saga or so, or saved a large rock or two, but never harmed anyone.

Really- I heard they have an agenda?????

 

[CDNBear]

That's true.

I know.

I'll agree with you there...

That's because I'm right.

... which if you like you may take as a concession, seeing as how you seem to need that so badly.

Not really. I just like to keep digging until we see the measure of the entity behind the monitor.

In any conflict (or any non-conflict) there are "bad guys" and "good guys." But it's usually painted overbroadly.

In some media, yes.

The Nazis were bad guys. The Germans weren't.

Most intelligent people know that.

Isn't this a philosophical discussion?

Not really.

Radicals are not necessarily bad guys.

Nor are they necessarily good guys. And your philosophical point of view isn't lost on me. It just has very little merit in real time conflict.

The world very much is, us v them.

Terrorism is so loose a term that I'll need your definition before I can argue it.

Ask Cliffy, it was his post.

Have you ever been in a situation where the metal meets the bone?

To many to keep count.

We seem to have started badly, which was mostly my fault.

Any fault would be wholly yours, not that I think we got off badly.

I agree that I shifted the paradigm a lot from the OP, though I had help with that.

Threads change and morph constantly, that's why I was careful to ascertain your statements context and origins.

Really- I heard they have an agenda?????

It's only in paperback form.

 

[Goober]

Could we go back to the topic of radicalized Muslim youth that think killing is the only answer.
Please and thank you