Six Years of 9/11 as a License to Kill

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Sad news for you Blues Clues, lotsa people see Americans that way. Not just Canadians either. And no I don't have it all figured out but I'm looking for answers.

Yesterday I flew a small American flag next to my Canadian flag on my balcony. Is it a competition now with you?

Hey you know what... you're right. A lot of people think that way. That is why I say after this war is over, everyone else is on their own. If I was president... that would be my attitude. I would help the ones that stood by us and ONLY them. I'd trade, and do those things but the handouts would stop immediatley.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
Sad news for you Blues Clues, lotsa people see Americans that way. Not just Canadians either. And no I don't have it all figured out but I'm looking for answers.

That's fine, lot's of people think explosives brought down the twin towers, but that doesn't make it so. I don't have it figured out either, but let's face it, you're referring to stereotypes that have no basis. I've heard about this alleged "inward looking society" for quite a long time, and yet I haven't seen it. It could be regional, like the southwest.

Consider what you say before you say, and tell me if it makes sense.

Yesterday I flew a small American flag next to my Canadian flag on my balcony. Is it a competition now with you?

And I flew a Canadian flag right along side the Stars & Stripes because I value our northern neighbor enough to cherish their loss of citizens on Sep. 11th.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Hey you know what... you're right. A lot of people think that way. That is why I say after this war is over, everyone else is on their own. If I was president... that would be my attitude. I would help the ones that stood by us and ONLY them. I'd trade, and do those things but the handouts would stop immediatley.

What war? You mean the never ending war? Hey kid didn't your know, it never ends.

If you were president the country would be in the worst economic crisis ever making the depression look like good times. I think it would be kinda funny to watch you give a jaunty salute as you resigned the Presidency just before they impeached yer butt.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
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That's fine, lot's of people think explosives brought down the twin towers, but that doesn't make it so. I don't have it figured out either, but let's face it, you're referring to stereotypes that have no basis. I've heard about this alleged "inward looking society" for quite a long time, and yet I haven't seen it. It could be regional, like the southwest.

Consider what you say before you say, and tell me if it makes sense.



And I flew a Canadian flag right along side the Stars & Stripes because I value our northern neighbor enough to cherish their loss of citizens on Sep. 11th.

I don't really care much what it was that brought them down. They were ruined after the planes hit them and even if it was a conspiracy there is nothing anyone will be able to prove one way or the other so it's all just talk now. Everyone who has made up their mind is pretty much set in that by now.

Maybe it's like one of those things you can't see yourself.
But if you look at media during the Olympics for example. Most other countries who cover the Games have a number of view points and cover almost all aspects of them. The US media talks about US atheleats, how they feel, look, what they eat, their clothes, where they stay, what they do when they are about to compete, during, afterward, the next day, what they when they train, the city they live in and the city they train in, how they train, the clothes they were when they train as opposed to the clothes they wear when they compete, the weather at the games and how the weather at the games makes the Americans feel at the games.

In the news it's all about what happened in America. In international news it's either how American helped some country out like in Iraq or Afghanistan, or the American that was killed along with a bunch of other people in some country. Who they were, what they were doing there, the reaction, the view from the family, how the family came to be on Oprah and so on. Then the three movies to follow about the tragedy.

I'm not trying to get a dig in on you, I'm just telling you the story from my perspective.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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What war? You mean the never ending war? Hey kid didn't your know, it never ends.

If you were president the country would be in the worst economic crisis ever making the depression look like good times. I think it would be kinda funny to watch you give a jaunty salute as you resigned the Presidency just before they impeached yer butt.

Iraq will end eventually... even the 100 Years War ended.

Oh so the US economy is dependent on how many hand outs we give? It is dependant on sending millions and milions of dollars to cess pools with no hope of getting it back? It works for China. When was the last time you saw their troops on a UN Mission... except on the other end of UN rifles.

What would be funny is watching everyone crawl and beg to be back on the nipple.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Iraq will end eventually... even the 100 Years War ended.

Oh so the US economy is dependent on how many hand outs we give? It is dependant on sending millions and milions of dollars to cess pools with no hope of getting it back? It works for China. When was the last time you saw their troops on a UN Mission... except on the other end of UN rifles.

What would be funny is watching everyone crawl and beg to be back on the nipple.

Yeah when the US packs up it's tents and pulls out, then it will be over for the US. Of course the rest of Iraq will slide into the same land of killing fields Cambodia and Laos turned into after they pulled out there. Not much of a trade off for a tempest in a tea pot that existed before all the WMD, and chest thumping.

Sorry how much propping up of the Saudi kingdom has the US done? Yeah no oil for you and plenty at discount rates for Russia, France and Germany and see how threatened the US will feel then. Imagine paying some guy $22 an hour to put together circuits on a mother board. Hell computers would cost you 12 grand each. Not to mention your clothing alone would crash the economy.

People would be jumping on rafts in Miami trying to get to Cuba and the good life.

China doesn't care. Once they develop they'll be annexing all those little countries one by one with communist doctrine that the US would be powerless to oppose. Not that America would care, right? Seal up the boarders and ignore them when they come begging. Hopefully they'll be begging when they come though or else that might be a problem.
 

thomaska

Council Member
May 24, 2006
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Great Satan
September 11, 2007
by Norman SolomonIt evokes a tragedy that marks an epoch. From the outset, the warfare state has exploited "9/11," a label at once too facile and too laden with historic weight – giving further power to the tacit political axiom that perception is reality.

Often it seems that media coverage is all about perception, especially when the underlying agendas are wired into huge profits and geopolitical leverage. If you associate a Big Mac or a Whopper with a happy meal or some other kind of great time, you're more likely to buy it. If you connect 9/11 with a need for taking military action and curtailing civil liberties, you're more likely to buy what the purveyors of war and authoritarian government have been selling for the past half-dozen years.

"Sept. 11 changed everything" became a sudden cliché in news media.

Words are supposed to mean something, and those words were – and are – preposterous. They speak of a USA enthralled with itself while reducing the rest of the world (its oceans and valleys and mountains and peoples) to little more than an extensive mirror to help us reflect on our centrality to the world. In an individual, we call that narcissism. In the nexus of media and politics, all too often, it's called "patriotism."

What happened on Sept. 11, 2001, was extraordinary and horrible by any measure. And certainly a crime against humanity. At the same time, it was a grisly addition to a history of human experience that has often included many thousands killed, en masse, by inhuman human choice. It is simply and complexly a factual matter that the U.S. government has participated in outright mass murders directly – in, for example, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Panama, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq – and less directly, through aid to armies terrorizing civilians in Nicaragua, Angola, East Timor, and many other countries.

The news media claim to be providing context. But whose? Overall, the context of Uncle Sam in the more perverse and narcissistic aspects of his policy personality. The hypocrisies of claims about moral precepts and universal principles go beyond the mere insistence that some others "do as we say, not as we do." What gets said, repeated, and forgotten sets up kaleidoscope patterns that can be adjusted to serve the self-centered mega-institutions reliably fixated on maintaining their own dominance.

Media manifestations of these patterns are frequently a mess of contradictions so extreme that they can only be held together with the power of ownership, advertising, and underwriting structures – along with notable assists from government agencies that dispense regulatory favors and myriad pressure to serve what might today be called a military-industrial-media complex. Our contact with the world is filtered through the mesh of mass media to such a great extent that the mesh itself becomes the fabric of power.

The most repetitious lessons of 9/11 – received and propagated by the vast preponderance of U.S. news media – have to do with the terribly asymmetrical importance of grief and of moral responsibility.

Our nation is so righteous that we are trained to ask for whom the bell tolls. Rendered as implicitly divisible, humanity is fractionated as seen through red-white-and-blue windows on the world.

Posing outside cycles of violence and victims who victimize, the dominant vision of Pax Americana has no more use now than it did six years ago for W.H. Auden's observation: "Those to whom evil is done / Do evil in return."

We ought to know. But we Americans are too smart for that.

by Michelle Malkin
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/09/12/910-people-vs-912-people/


“If only.” Those are the verbal crutches America must discard in a post-9/11 world.

If only the State Department hadn’t been so sloppy in issuing visas to the 9/11 hijackers. If only police and state troopers had been able to check the immigration status of the hijackers who were pulled over for speeding before the attacks. If only universities had been more diligent in monitoring the hijackers’ whereabouts. If only the feds had listened to alert agents’ recommendations to profile young Arab students in our flight schools. If only someone, anyone, had said something when they saw the suspicious behavior of the jihadists on dry runs.

We have borne the bloody costs of coulda-woulda-shoulda. Nearly 3,000 dead. The World Trade Center in ruins. The Pentagon on fire. The fields at Shanksville, Pa., scarred. Six years later, we can no longer afford hindsight heavy breathing. Memory must guide action. And action must be taken without apology…

… Earlier this year, jihadist enablers attempted to intimidate citizen whistleblowers who said something about the suspicious behavior of six imams on a US Airways flight in Minneapolis/St. Paul. The legal battle to protect ordinary Americans from such lawsuits gave rise to the John Doe movement. Pro bono lawyers and GOP members of Congress stepped up to provide protection. And Americans across the country expressed solidarity with the airline passengers targeted by the Council on American-Islamic Relations and its ilk.

The Left greeted the John Doe movement with mockery and derision, preferring instead to suck its collective thumb, wield the grievance card and play the blame game. But it’s the John Does of the country, not the race-hustling litigators and speech-stiflers, who will help prevent the next terrorist attack. They are John Does like Brian Morgenstern, the young Circuit City employee who contacted authorities after viewing a jihadist training video by the Fort Dix Six Plotters.
“It was a difficult decision at first,” Morgenstern told Fox News. “I went home, and I talked with my family about it. And we all came to the general conclusion that it was the right thing to do.” No regrets. No apologies. And no “if onlys.”

Not everyone is willing to do the right thing. When the FBI recently asked for the public’s help in identifying two men acting suspiciously on Pacific Northwest ferries, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer newspaper refused to run the photos — and instead held a reader haiku contest mocking the terrorism concerns. When two young Muslim men were arrested and indicted on weapons and terrorism charges after being stopped near a naval base in Goose Creek, S.C., Muslim civil rights groups immediately cried racism and suggested that law enforcement officials were bigoted and paranoid.

There are 9/10 people and there are 9/12 people. 9/10 people live in a world of make-believe, where sensitivity trumps security and second-guessing is their only acceptable homeland security policy. 9/12 people are the John Does in your neighborhood, on your plane, train or bus, moving ahead with their lives but always on alert.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Something that you should know and could acknowledge is that it isn't just about America and Americans. 24 Canadians were killed in that attack on that day.

One of the biggest problems Americans have is their indefatigable ability to see only American deaths.

Unforgiven

You've dialled the wrong number - I have always acknowledged there were other nationalities (as well as Canadian) in that tragedy. It is one reason I am always confused when Canadians get their mitts on over the 9/11 anniversary when it includes their own nationals too. The general attitude is it is "all about Americans" when that is the perception of people who disagree with the rememberances.

My apologies I see where you got that information when I wrote "they were only Americans" - but that is how the tragedy is treated on Canadian forums - rarely acknowledging the loss of many people - if U.S. people weren't the majority, it might be more important to the naysayers who mock the memorials.

What gave you the idea I have written people of the U.S. were the only victims of 9/11. New York itself is a polyglot of international people - there is no accounting for the losses of people from elsewhere, not only the passengers but those on the ground and the people who have become sick since.

The foul grim reaper who paid visitation on 9/11/01 didn't check passports or anything else. He's still claiming unlucky ones for his own.
 
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EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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Yeah when the US packs up it's tents and pulls out, then it will be over for the US. Of course the rest of Iraq will slide into the same land of killing fields Cambodia and Laos turned into after they pulled out there. Not much of a trade off for a tempest in a tea pot that existed before all the WMD, and chest thumping.

Sorry how much propping up of the Saudi kingdom has the US done? Yeah no oil for you and plenty at discount rates for Russia, France and Germany and see how threatened the US will feel then. Imagine paying some guy $22 an hour to put together circuits on a mother board. Hell computers would cost you 12 grand each. Not to mention your clothing alone would crash the economy.

People would be jumping on rafts in Miami trying to get to Cuba and the good life.

China doesn't care. Once they develop they'll be annexing all those little countries one by one with communist doctrine that the US would be powerless to oppose. Not that America would care, right? Seal up the boarders and ignore them when they come begging. Hopefully they'll be begging when they come though or else that might be a problem.

Hellooooo! Helloooo! Is anyone home? Hellooooooo-oooooo.

Your first observation is based on speculation and not fact. But that is typical of your type. I am sure you are HOPING for a Cambodia type outcome to prove that you are right.

My point was that we should basically tell most of the world to beat it and ask Canada or China to bail them out, over and over again. I didn't say anything about not trading, I am talking about sending troops into illegal wars like Yugoslavia... the one you guys participated in. People are jumping up and down how the US is not doing anything about the Sudan. Hey... it's a big world and a lot of nations have armies... send your own in. We'll still buy clothes from Taiwan and China etc. We just won't send any aid into the cess pools of the world. When the UN starts knocking... no thanks, try someone else.

I bet the first country China annexes will be Canada. Easy pickings. Heck you would probably be on the street waving a red flag as the Chinese Army marches victoriously into Ottawa... w/o a shot.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Hellooooo! Helloooo! Is anyone home? Hellooooooo-oooooo.

Your first observation is based on speculation and not fact. But that is typical of your type. I am sure you are HOPING for a Cambodia type outcome to prove that you are right.

My point was that we should basically tell most of the world to beat it and ask Canada or China to bail them out, over and over again. I didn't say anything about not trading, I am talking about sending troops into illegal wars like Yugoslavia... the one you guys participated in. People are jumping up and down how the US is not doing anything about the Sudan. Hey... it's a big world and a lot of nations have armies... send your own in. We'll still buy clothes from Taiwan and China etc. We just won't send any aid into the cess pools of the world. When the UN starts knocking... no thanks, try someone else.

I bet the first country China annexes will be Canada. Easy pickings. Heck you would probably be on the street waving a red flag as the Chinese Army marches victoriously into Ottawa... w/o a shot.

Speculating and learning from your mistakes are two different things.
No one is hopeing that Iraq turns into a Cambodia. But bad things happen when you go playing Globocop without permission or support from everyone else and building up a set of lies to justify it.

The guy who inspired the whole 9/11 attack is still where he was on that day and still doing the very same thing he was doing then. That is where Canadians are and we're kicking ass too. Not because we just love kicking ass in Afghanistan but because our closest friends got sucker punched and we don't let that kind of thing pass without a response. But don't expect us to jump into the fight you picked with some bum while you were drunk and ornery. Hell if you want to fight send troops to Afghanistan, there is plenty of room for more help.

I agree that we should be in Darfur. Of all the places that is probably the one that would use our help the most. Maybe if we weren't busy kicking ass on your behalf in Afghanistan, we would be deployed in Darfur in enough numbers to make an impact on the problems there.

As for China, the last time someone tried to annex us, we chased them all the way home and burned down their White House. I'm not worried about what China does. But maybe when communism spreads to those cesspools you speak of, or Al Qaeda set ups shop and starts disrupting exports that are important to the US like oil for example, and you start paying ten bucks a gallon, you will reconsider.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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Speculating and learning from your mistakes are two different things.
No one is hopeing that Iraq turns into a Cambodia. But bad things happen when you go playing Globocop without permission or support from everyone else and building up a set of lies to justify it.

The guy who inspired the whole 9/11 attack is still where he was on that day and still doing the very same thing he was doing then. That is where Canadians are and we're kicking ass too. Not because we just love kicking ass in Afghanistan but because our closest friends got sucker punched and we don't let that kind of thing pass without a response. But don't expect us to jump into the fight you picked with some bum while you were drunk and ornery. Hell if you want to fight send troops to Afghanistan, there is plenty of room for more help.

I agree that we should be in Darfur. Of all the places that is probably the one that would use our help the most. Maybe if we weren't busy kicking ass on your behalf in Afghanistan, we would be deployed in Darfur in enough numbers to make an impact on the problems there.

As for China, the last time someone tried to annex us, we chased them all the way home and burned down their White House. I'm not worried about what China does. But maybe when communism spreads to those cesspools you speak of, or Al Qaeda set ups shop and starts disrupting exports that are important to the US like oil for example, and you start paying ten bucks a gallon, you will reconsider.

Funniest one by far.

Troops in Afghanistan

US- 19,500
Can- 2,500

But oh yes... Canada is running the show. :roll:

Oh so if you weren't fighting in Afghanistan you'd be kicking butt in Dafur? Just like you kicked butt in Rawanda? Heck your own Canadian Commander sent Belgium troops to their deaths as opposed to his own Canadians. When he was asked why he sent the Beligians instead of Canadians... his answer

"They (the Belgians) were the best I had."

The Canadian revisionist history of Canadians burning down the White House has to be my favorite. Just another Canadian trying to take credit for other people's victories. They were British troops that burned down the White House, and only part of it I may add. In fact those same British troops went up the river to take Baltimore and got their teeth kicked in and were sent running back to their ships. Were Canadians there?
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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In the bush near Sudbury
Funniest one by far.

Troops in Afghanistan

US- 19,500
Can- 2,500

But oh yes... Canada is running the show. :roll:

Oh so if you weren't fighting in Afghanistan you'd be kicking butt in Dafur? Just like you kicked butt in Rawanda? Heck your own Canadian Commander sent Belgium troops to their deaths as opposed to his own Canadians. When he was asked why he sent the Beligians instead of Canadians... his answer

"They (the Belgians) were the best I had."

The Canadian revisionist history of Canadians burning down the White House has to be my favorite. Just another Canadian trying to take credit for other people's victories. They were British troops that burned down the White House, and only part of it I may add. In fact those same British troops went up the river to take Baltimore and got their teeth kicked in and were sent running back to their ships. Were Canadians there?

Gotta love it when history gets written to advantage. Here's the version from St Catharines:

1812, England was busy on the continent with a guy called Napoleon and that's why the Yanks even had parts enough to try for Canada. That's why Canada had Tecumseh and his First Nations people onside and why Britain never exercised her war trophy rights over Quebec when France got her butt kicked.

Seems to be some dispute about that White House thing. The Presidential House wasn't actually burned down - merely scorched in a retaliatory strike. It got a quick coat of fresh paint to hide the damage - and perpetuate a fib to the people. Hence the term "whitewash".

By all means, believe as you wish :p

Wolf
 
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