Should The GOP Surrender To Obama On Tax Policy?

[JLM]

Forward!

Now is the time at SDA when we juxtapose!

Political Wire, December 4th - Filmmaker Michael Moore received $841,145 in tax incentives from the State of Michigan to make Capitalism: A Love Story, a documentary against corporate welfare, the New York Times reports.


Detroit News, Dec.7th - ...a plan is being solidified in the governor's office that would guide Michigan's largest city through what is being called a managed bankruptcy.

small dead animals: Forward!

Meaty Mike

Isn't he a beauty? -

 

[captain morgan]

As for capital gains getting taxed twice that is a myth we have discussed innumerable times on this forum since corporations get deductions and many don't even pay taxes. Then there is also the matter of tax shelters used by billionaires like Romney. All of which prove the wealthy are corporate welfare queens.

What a hoot!... And you were the one just complaining about 'the facts'.

Say gopher, seeing how you don't like write-offs as they are welfare-esque in nature, I guess that you and every American homeowner that writes-off the interest you pay on your mortgage, makes you a welfare Queen and stooge that is suckling unfairly at society's teat.

When will you man-up and pay your fair share of taxes?... It's no wonder that the 99% can't ever catch a break

 

[tay]

Wingnuts Turn On Ann Coulter




As the right-wing factions of the GOP continue to eat their own, this week they turned on Coulter after she announced on Fox News that Republicans should work with Obama on tax hikes for the wealthy.


Joe. My. God.: Wingnuts Turn On Ann Coulter



Breitbart is furious:

And you must read the comments on the Brietbart site...............

Ann Coulter: Capitulate to Obama on Taxes

 

[Just the Facts]

lol what? Obama is continuing his total and complete lack of leadership by trying to strong arm congress when he said he would work with them, by trying to increase spending by double what he said he would during the election, by trying to singlehandedly re-write the constitution to make himself finincial dictator, by going on a $20,000,000 vacation right when the country needs strong leadership from the whitehouse? LOOK!! - over there!! Anne Coulter!!!

 

[JLM]

lol what? Obama is continuing his total and complete lack of leadership by trying to strong arm congress when he said he would work with them, by trying to increase spending by double what he said he would during the election, by trying to singlehandedly re-write the constitution to make himself finincial dictator, by going on a $20,000,000 vacation right when the country needs strong leadership from the whitehouse? LOOK!! - over there!! Anne Coulter!!!

Meanwhile, he's gaining popularity, up to 57% yesterday.-

 

[Just the Facts]

Meanwhile, he's gaining popularity, up to 57% yesterday.-

Yup, Empire of the Stupid People. Welcome to the 21st century.

Hey, he's cool, right? He's hip! What else could matter? And dude, check out my phone!

 

[JLM]

Yup, Empire of the Stupid People. Welcome to the 21st century.

Hey, he's cool, right? He's hip! What else could matter? And dude, check out my phone!

And the alternative would be??????????????? But you're right, most of the populace has lost touch with reality.............in a dozen ways! What percentage of the populations spends the bulk of their time punching messages into a I Pod? Some of them 3,000 messages a month! Is this really normal behaviour? I might be able to "see it" for old retired folks, but young people should be doing something!

 

[gopher]

What a hoot!... And you were the one just complaining about 'the facts'.

Say gopher, seeing how you don't like write-offs as they are welfare-esque in nature, I guess that you and every American homeowner that writes-off the interest you pay on your mortgage, makes you a welfare Queen and stooge that is suckling unfairly at society's teat.

When will you man-up and pay your fair share of taxes?... It's no wonder that the 99% can't ever catch a break

Captain - just in case you have forgotten, I worked for 20 years in the tax field and most of those years were in the IRS. You are in position to tell me what the tax law is about. If you insist on believing the right wing propaganda BS that's your business. But if want me to believe those lies you need to present evidence. As always, you have presented nothing but the same recriminations.

--------------------------------------

Wingnuts Turn On Ann Coulter




As the right-wing factions of the GOP continue to eat their own, this week they turned on Coulter after she announced on Fox News that Republicans should work with Obama on tax hikes for the wealthy.


Joe. My. God.: Wingnuts Turn On Ann Coulter



Breitbart is furious:

And you must read the comments on the Brietbart site...............

Ann Coulter: Capitulate to Obama on Taxes

The deluded right wingers are having a civil war right now as nothing they stand for has proven to have any benefit for society.

 

[captain morgan]

Captain - just in case you have forgotten, I worked for 20 years in the tax field and most of those years were in the IRS. You are in position to tell me what the tax law is about. If you insist on believing the right wing propaganda BS that's your business. But if want me to believe those lies you need to present evidence. As always, you have presented nothing but the same recriminations.

No, I haven't forgotten your past experiences, in fact, I am counting on that to accentuate my point.

First off, you have avoided recognizing that the investment dollars you feel are receiving welfare have been taxed already, in fact, you have also ignored the benefit that you get as an individual to write-off the financing charges for your home. Both of these circumstances are quite factual - no 'propaganda BS', just factual statements that seem to undermine the emotionally charged talking point of corporate welfare.

Why is this gopher?

 

[taxslave]

If we could write off the interest on our mortgages Canadians would have much more disposable income.

 

[captain morgan]

If we could write off the interest on our mortgages Canadians would have much more disposable income.

One might argue that the ability to do so amplified the housing crisis in the US... It provided an environment that encouraged people to remortgage or get second homes as the debt appeared more affordable and the market was rising.

 

[JLM]

No, I haven't forgotten your past experiences, in fact, I am counting on that to accentuate my point.

First off, you have avoided recognizing that the investment dollars you feel are receiving welfare have been taxed already, in fact, you have also ignored the benefit that you get as an individual to write-off the financing charges for your home. Both of these circumstances are quite factual - no 'propaganda BS', just factual statements that seem to undermine the emotionally charged talking point of corporate welfare.

Why is this gopher?

I'm not sure there is anything wrong with that tax law, maybe we should look at it in Canada.

If we could write off the interest on our mortgages Canadians would have much more disposable income.

It might also increase the domestic demand for our lumber!

 

[captain morgan]

In the US, the trade-off is that while you can write-off the financing costs, upon sale of the house, you have to pay tax on the gains... In Canada, if the home is your primary residence, there is no tax on the sale.

The Canadian scenario results in many people using their home as a kind of retirement fund for later years.

 

[JLM]

In the US, the trade-off is that while you can write-off the financing costs, upon sale of the house, you have to pay tax on the gains... In Canada, if the home is your primary residence, there is no tax on the sale.

The Canadian scenario results in many people using their home as a kind of retirement fund for later years.

Yeah, I guess it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

[Locutus]

Obama Says He “Won’t Compromise” On Raising Taxes…



Question: Is Obama delusional enough to really believe this tax hike (which would fund the government for only 8 days) is going to solve our deficit woes?

REDFORD, Mich. (AP) — President Barack Obama says he “won’t compromise” on his demands that the wealthiest Americans pay more in taxes.


However, Obama held back from directly criticizing Republicans for opposing his tax plans, perhaps signaling that private negotiations over the “fiscal cliff” are showing progress. Obama and Boehner met privately at the White House Sunday.


Obama Says He “Won’t Compromise” On Raising Taxes… | Weasel Zippers

​

 

[gopher]

No, I haven't forgotten your past experiences, in fact, I am counting on that to accentuate my point.

First off, you have avoided recognizing that the investment dollars you feel are receiving welfare have been taxed already, in fact, you have also ignored the benefit that you get as an individual to write-off the financing charges for your home. Both of these circumstances are quite factual - no 'propaganda BS', just factual statements that seem to undermine the emotionally charged talking point of corporate welfare.

Why is this gopher?

have been taxed already

Quite the contrary, you have ignored the fact that corporations get reliefs, incentives, abatements, subsidies, financial inducements, and other forms of preference items. Thus, the taxes they pay (if any, and we have already discussed innumerable times the fact that many corporations do not pay taxes), are paid on NET income, not gross. This means corporations get to take off all kinds of deductions, many of which include padded up expense accounts but do not include government handouts, and some don't even pay taxes. We have discussed this so many times but you keep ignoring these facts.


you get as an individual to write-off the financing charges for your home

That is a change of subject and is inconsequential for this topic since it does not directly involve corporations. However, just to add to the point, whenever some home owner deducts interest charges on their tax return, it serves as an incentive for some to take investment or home loans. This ultimately benefits bank and other lending institutions.

No further use in you trying to debate this matter as it is an argument you cannot win.

 

[captain morgan]

have been taxed already

Quite the contrary, you have ignored the fact that corporations get reliefs, incentives, abatements, subsidies, financial inducements, and other forms of preference items.

You forgot the part about the corps are expected to employ hundreds (or possible thousands), spend 100's of millions in the local economy and risk this capital over many years...

A small little exclusion, but pretty important all the same

Thus, the taxes they pay (if any, and we have already discussed innumerable times the fact that many corporations do not pay taxes),

Fine, but don't punish every single corp entity because of a few.

are paid on NET income, not gross. This means corporations get to take off all kinds of deductions, many of which include padded up expense accounts but do not include government handouts, and some don't even pay taxes. We have discussed this so many times but you keep ignoring these facts.

Padded expense accounts? That's your silver bullet?

Doesn't the IRS audit those things?

As for the 'handouts' - excepting a few examples of such (sports teams comes to mind), what do you think the fallout will be of eliminating all of those write-downs without having a corresponding reduction in the tax rate?... You want all the bennies from one side of the equation to remain unchanged but beef-up the costs on the other side.

In the end, I could care less how the US decides to organize their tax system; but in the event that your suggestions were to be implemented, the US would become the ultimate consumer society and produce next to nothing (read: there would be absolutely no trade balance).

That said, where do you think that the money to run your economy will come from?.. Gvt just printing more bills each day?

Hint: That didn't work so well for the Wiemar Republic nor for Zimbabwe recently.

you get as an individual to write-off the financing charges for your home

That is a change of subject and is inconsequential for this topic since it does not directly involve corporations. However, just to add to the point, whenever some home owner deducts interest charges on their tax return, it serves as an incentive for some to take investment or home loans. This ultimately benefits bank and other lending institutions.

No further use in you trying to debate this matter as it is an argument you cannot win.

It has everything to do with the topic.... It is a form of 'welfare' is it not, and what's worse, the wealthy also get to take advantage of that heinous loophole!

 

[gopher]

the corps are expected to employ hundreds (or possible thousands), spend 100's of millions in the local economy and risk this capital over many years...

The productivity spent by the workers contributes far more to society and they do not get subsidized unlike corporations.

excepting a few examples of such (sports teams comes to mind), what do you think the fallout will be of eliminating all of those write-downs without having a corresponding reduction in the tax rate?...

Corporations have been the beneficiaries of Reaganomics welfarism for 30 years. All this under the idea that the wealth would "trickle down" to the working people. It's time to pay the piper.


By the way, here's another example of corporate welfarism:



Bristol Palin's Reality Show Got $354,348 In Tax Credits From The State of Alaska | ThinkProgress


Sure enough - it was the taxpayers who paid for it.

 

[captain morgan]

The productivity spent by the workers contributes far more to society and they do not get subsidized unlike corporations.

Agreed... However, if the business climate deters the risk capital from creating those jobs, then there is less worker productivity that feeds the balance of the economy.

It's a balancing act and the domestic markets also must compete with the global markets in this regard.... Drive away the domestic opportunities and all you're doing is propping-up a foreign jurisdiction via that same principle. This is also amplified by the notion that your domestic economy supports that foreign beneficiary through consumerism (think Apple or Nike mfg in China but billions in sales happening in the USA)

Corporations have been the beneficiaries of Reaganomics welfarism for 30 years. All this under the idea that the wealth would "trickle down" to the working people. It's time to pay the piper.

... And it has worked.

That said, too extreme of anything is not productive, but the US is now among the world's highest taxed nations with threats to increase it further.

It's not working well for California, but those CA tax increases have been a helluva good deal for Texas in attracting corps to that State

By the way, here's another example of corporate welfarism:

Bristol Palin's Reality Show Got $354,348 In Tax Credits From The State of Alaska | ThinkProgress


Sure enough - it was the taxpayers who paid for it.

I don't disagree with that, but lets look at the flip side of that arrangement... Had Palin's show actually done well (amd assuming that the corp was based in Alaska), that State would have reaped a large multiple of that welfare in the form of income taxes alone, let alone the employment of people to make the show happen.

 

[gopher]

Drive away the domestic opportunities and all you're doing is propping-up a foreign jurisdiction via that same principle .... {Reaganomics} has worked.

When the unions were stronger and taxes were higher we had full employment. Reaganomics has been a dismal failure since day one. The fact that corporations get bailed out while making billions in profits without job increases and while elites shelter their monies overseas proves it.