Should Canadian tax payers be funding abortion?

[bobnoorduyn]

Abortion is considered a medical procedure and as such is covered by Canada Health act. It may not be all that easy to delist abortion. Not only will there be public outcry, but it probably goes against Canada Health Act.

Well so is cataract surgery, try getting that before you go blind. As is Lasic surgery a medical procedure, it is not covered at all. There are plenty of "medical procedures" that are not covered and do not go against the Canada Health Act. By and large, abortion is an elective procedure. Let there be public outcry, crybabies need to cry.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

You are just repeating yourself. I know it is considered a "medical service". As I see it, it is a very expensive, badly abused, service. Lots of women have had two or three abortions. Do they think doctors pay for the privilege of doing them?

Umm, Juan, you expect an honest answer from someone who has a vested interest and can profit, at least collaterally, from such services?

 

[Ron in Regina]

I try to stay out of these Threads as a rule of thumb. Here's an observation though:

#juan & SirJosephPorter are discussing two very different things, one being the Fee
Schedule (what a Doctor is actually paid for a procedure in Ontario, not the total cost),
and the other discussing the Total Cost on average, in Canada, in 2002.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

And the fight is still going on in New Brunswick? I seriously doubt it. I think all the provinces these days cover abortion, some reluctantly, others enthusiastically.

It was still ongoing as of last October, I don't know if it's been settled yet, I haven't been following it that closely. But you know, the more spurious demands made on a foundering health care system the less care there is going to be for serious ailments.

 

[karrie]

I try to stay out of these Threads as a rule of thumb. Here's an observation though:

What I find funny is that this isn't one of 'those' threads theoretically. This boils down to a thread on whether or not elective procedures should be covered.

 

[JLM]

I try to stay out of these Threads as a rule of thumb. Here's an observation though:

#juan & SirJosephPorter are discussing two very different things, one being the Fee
Schedule (what a Doctor is actually paid for a procedure in Ontario, not the total cost),
and the other discussing the Total Cost on average, in Canada, in 2002.

That's what was needed- that's the reason you get the big bucks, Ron................:lol::lol::lol:

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Apparently there is differing information out there:

Since no level of government has released cost figures for abortion, we can only estimate what the direct costs of abortion are. (These estimates exclude any indirect costs, that is, costs for follow-up procedures for immediate complications and side effects, and longer-term treatments for associated post-abortion problems. See book, Women's Health After Abortion: The Medical and Psychological Evidence . Elizabeth Ring-Cassidy and Ian Gentles. The deVeber Institute for Bioethics and Social Research, 2002.)
We use the figure of $80 million a year, based on an average cost of $800 per abortion for 100,000 abortions. In 2001, the Canadian Institute for Health Information reported 106,418 abortions. They admit that is at least 10% below the actual number of abortions performed because of reporting problems from some provinces and private clinics. So, the $80 million figure is already low for the 2001 year and if past trends continue, the number of abortions has undoubtedly increased in the past two years.
We arrived at the average cost of $800 based on the following numbers published by abortion advocates and in the media. Since hospital abortions constitute roughly two-thirds of all abortions performed in Canada, we used an average of the $500 cost (at the low end) of a clinic abortion and $1000 (again, at the low end) estimate for hospital abortions. We are quite comfortable that the $800 cost per abortion is in fact a very low, conservative estimate of the cost and that the $80 million a year figure is probably an underestimate of how much taxpayers spend on medically unnecessary abortions.
Here are the published estimates of the cost of abortion.
. "The average cost for an early surgical abortion at a private abortion clinic is about $500, while the cost for the same abortion at a hospital can exceed $1000," said Joyce Arthur of Pro-CAN. "Hospitals have bigger bureaucracies and more overhead. Most use general anesthesia for abortions, while clinics use less expensive local anesthesia and conscious sedation. Abortion clinics deliver more 'bang for the buck' than hospitals."
www.prochoiceactionnetwork -canada.org/release-Nov-29-02.html
. Abortions are significantly more expensive in hospitals. An early surgical abortion at a clinic costs between $450 and $550, while the same abortion at a hospital can be estimated at about $900 to $1200.

There is no differing information here. What I quoted was how much a surgeon got paid, what you are quoting it the total cost of abortion. The fact is, a surgeon gets paid a lot less for abortion than he does for a Caesarian. If the average cost of abortion is 800$ (as you describe) , you may be sure that average cost of a Caesarian is probably around 1500 $.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Sorry juan, I was wrong. The average cost for a Caesarian is not 1500$, as I thought, but it is 6000$ per Caesarian. There is really no comparison between the cost of abortion and cost of Caesarian, one is much more expensive that the other.

Canada's Caesarean Rate at Record High

 

[JLM]

I think we could take a page out of Oregon's book to solve the dilemma

Oregon DHS: OHP priortized list overview

 

[gerryh]

why compare an abortion with a c section?

 

[lone wolf]

So how much profit is there in doctor-inconveniencing natural childbirth? I do know they were steadfast against midwives....

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Oh? How come I had to pay for my daughters' birth control, and now that they are no longer under my roof they have to pay for it themselves? If we personally have to pay for contraception I sure as hell don't want to be collectively paying for others' abortions.

You don’t have to pay for birth control. You see the doctor for free, for birth contort advice, diagnosis etc. You pay for the drugs. If somebody has a drug plan, I assume birth control pills also would be covered.

But it is misleading to say that you have to pay for birth control.

 

[JLM]

why compare an abortion with a c section?

Really not much to compare is there? :smile::smile:

 

[lone wolf]

You don’t have to pay for birth control. You see the doctor for free, for birth contort advice, diagnosis etc. You pay for the drugs. If somebody has a drug plan, I assume birth control pills also would be covered.

But it is misleading to say that you have to pay for birth control.

It's also stealing to take that which one doesn't pay for where birth control isn't covered.

OHIP does NOT cover the cost. They are covered by the province IF you are on the social services or if you have drug coverage.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Well so is cataract surgery, try getting that before you go blind. As is Lasic surgery a medical procedure, it is not covered at all. There are plenty of "medical procedures" that are not covered and do not go against the Canada Health Act. By and large, abortion is an elective procedure. Let there be public outcry, crybabies need to cry.

I don’t know where you live, but usual wait for cataract surgery is around three weeks where I live. I think it is comparable over most of Ontario. Nobody has to go blind because of lack of it.

Lasic surgery is to improve one’s vision. That really is cosmetic surgery, one can see fine without it (and with the help of eye glasses or contact lenses). Canada Health Act covers most of medically necessary procedures.

 

[karrie]

Really not much to compare is there? :smile::smile:

when done for convenience sake rather than medical need, I don't want the health care system to have to pay for either one. So, in reference to purely answering the title of this thread, I could find a comparison.

 

[JLM]

when done for convenience sake rather than medical need, I don't want the health care system to have to pay for either one. So, in reference to purely answering the title of this thread, I could find a comparison.

OK Karrie :smile:

 

[mikemac]

A November 2009 poll by Environics Research Group for Life Canada found that:
* 18 percent of those polled said women should pay for abortions themselves or have them funded by private insurers, not public funds.
* 49 percent said public funds should be used for abortions only in emergency situations such as rape, incest or threat to the mother’s life.
* In total, 67 percent oppose public funding of most or all abortions.

This 67 percent is close to the figure for those who want some legal protection for the unborn, which is 66 percent.

Considering $80 million a year is probably an underestimate of how much taxpayers spend on medically unnecessary abortions I can understand the results of the poll.

 

[MMIX]

Absolutely. This is not the United States. Canada allows women true constitutional equality including the control of their reproductive systems. No woman should be forced to have an abortion, but no woman should be denied one either.

This is a strawman response. The question was whether taxpayers should be funding them, not whether they should be outlawed.

You can support a person's right to obtain a service without supporting the burden of funding that service.

 

[TenPenny]

To get back to the point, no, taxpayers shouldn't be funding abortions unless they are 'medically necessary'.

They certainly should be available, but not covered by medicare.

People do not value what they do not pay for.