Should Canada become a World Cop?

[jimmoyer]

Hallelujah, Hank C.

Canada was the one nation who per capita did more
than any other nation in World War II.

Per Capita.

Aussies were wimpy compared to that stat.

It's about guts. It's about Leadership. When you're
alone. The honor of leadership can change any
ephemeral poll.

Amen, Hank C.

 

[Hank C]

Re: RE: Should Canada become a World Cop?

No comfortable Western democracy will ever shed its
sons and daughters' blood to police the world, except
for rebel America.

The rest of the Western World is too self centered
about losing its own entitlements and earnings to
shed blood and guts on anything but its own comfort.

Im sure a few dormant brits might disagree......

 

[Lineman]

So gentlemen how do we change the "maturity" of Canadians? I hope the election, albeit a minority, of the conservatives is a start. How do we begin to reclaim the leadership, ethics, and honour of bygone era's? I believe it's by beginning to do things on our own. It appeals to both sides of the argument. It's hard for lefties to accuse the government of pandering to the US if we're on our own and the right get their international stature and more than competent military.
(By the way thanks for the excellent posts, my first thread and was not sure it would follow this direction)

 

[jimmoyer]

I think of the Canadians highly mature, despite
my disagreement with their generally more liberal bent.

I don't wish a change on their thinking unless it
occurs by a more slower organic process.

Any change faster than that would be artificial and
autocratic.

And again, I can't imagine a more mature culture
in the western world than Canada.

 

[Hank C]

Re: RE: Should Canada become a World Cop?

So gentlemen how do we change the "maturity" of Canadians? I hope the election, albeit a minority, of the conservatives is a start. How do we begin to reclaim the leadership, ethics, and honour of bygone era's? I believe it's by beginning to do things on our own. It appeals to both sides of the argument. It's hard for lefties to accuse the government of pandering to the US if we're on our own and the right get their international stature and more than competent military.
(By the way thanks for the excellent posts, my first thread and was not sure it would follow this direction)

I would agree with you Lineman that the Conservatives are a start, they just dont carry the same old mantra and baggage the Liberals had. How do we start, I would say foreign policy would be the starting point. Already moves to cut aid to the palestinian authority,labelling the tamil tigers a terrorist group (liberals dident because they were provided with the terrorist groups support come election time), the Harper move to shore up support for the troops and his steady clear support for the mission...ect. I think it all starts will a proper foreign policy.

 

[Lineman]

Well may be mature was not quite the right word. (note to self: must work on vocabulary) Do we then "un-bend" our Liberal bent? I believe our recent history shows we do approach things with more of a humanitarian edge than economics. Is this the Liberal bent or are we just so well off that economic gain is not a priority?

 

[Lineman]

Re: RE: Should Canada become a World Cop?

[quote="Hank C[/quote]

I would agree with you Lineman that the Conservatives are a start, they just dont carry the same old mantra and baggage the Liberals had. How do we start, I would say foreign policy would be the starting point. Already moves to cut aid to the palestinian authority,labelling the tamil tigers a terrorist group (liberals dident because they were provided with the terrorist groups support come election time), the Harper move to shore up support for the troops and his steady clear support for the mission...ect. I think it all starts will a proper foreign policy.[/quote]

Hopefully they'll accomplish some of this before the opposition forces another election. I am hopefull with these recent moves, especially after the rough start with Emerson's defection.

 

[Hank C]

well our foreign policy should not simply be to parade the UN and promote "Canadian values" is should focus more on protecting Canadian interests abroad.

In terms of the"liberal bend" I think part of it is natural, part of it out of spite, and part of it out of ignorance and uneducation. Canada living next door to the US it is completely understandable that they would try to distinguish and differentiate themselves as the US is seen as "conservative". The current president is seen quite negatively Canada and the knee jerk reaction is to deny or defy in any way possible to make a statement. We also have a history of pacifism and acceptance of the status quo.

 

[jimmoyer]

Good summary, Hank C.

 

[Canadian with a hyphen]

sure Let's create foreign policy - didn't know we had one-
then yes it will be a good place to start.

Rachelle

 

[Finder]

Hank C, with respect I think the United Nations is the only regonized legitmate world body and forming a foreign policy without including and regonizing the authority of the UN is dangerous and aggressive. We should however give full support for pushing certain UN policy and then forcing an issue on the UN to enforce it.

 

[Machjo]

I keep reading about "Canadian Interests". Very dangerous direction! The US have been following that path for years, but the problem is if the interests of humanity conflict with US interests, then humanity turns against it, as we've been witnessing in the last decade.

If Canadian interests likewise clash with those fo otehr naitons, then we'd find ourselves in the same boeat. How about fucussing on the interests of mankind (which by implication include our own) ? that way no nation would feel obliged to confront us in future as we both fight for conflicting interests.

 

[mabudon]

RE: Should Canada become

Yes, VERY important... the word "interests" is poorly defined and in the case of the US "interests" seems to be somewhat of a euphemism....

I think that is maybe the most important definition to nail down so that this discussion can proceed...
I do believe if "national interetst" and a package of "global/human race" interests were harmonized, I would have a lot less problem with the talk of expanding our military... if our "interests" are simply making sure that WE have what WE need regardless of the methodology (which is most certainly the case in some of the current actions by the US overseas) then I would think that it would be hard to get a consensus, since I believe that theft is theft no matter who is doing it

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Should Canada become a World Cop?

I keep reading about "Canadian Interests". Very dangerous direction! The US have been following that path for years, but the problem is if the interests of humanity conflict with US interests, then humanity turns against it, as we've been witnessing in the last decade.

If Canadian interests likewise clash with those fo otehr naitons, then we'd find ourselves in the same boeat. How about fucussing on the interests of mankind (which by implication include our own) ? that way no nation would feel obliged to confront us in future as we both fight for conflicting interests.

Canadian interests have been on the table since Lester Pearson, this isn't anything new. All countries look after their interests, each within their own abilities.

 

[Said1]

Hank C, with respect I think the United Nations is the only regonized legitmate world body and forming a foreign policy without including and regonizing the authority of the UN is dangerous and aggressive. We should however give full support for pushing certain UN policy and then forcing an issue on the UN to enforce it.

The UN is only as effective as it's members allow it to be. The hierarchy of power and authority of it's members out weigh the powers of the institution itself. Member states are agreeing to cooperate, there are no absolutes.

 

[darkbeaver]

RE: Should Canada become

For Canada to consider an independent foriegn policy we first have to become independent, at the present time we are with the help of the conservative party and thier corporate masters moving toward full integration with the U.S. so you can dream all you want about developing as an independent middle power it aint going to happen, Stephen Harper and the remnants of the old conservative party have determined that we will be a province of the United States at best. I've seen talk in this thread of guts and military strength and stupidity like that, without brains and compassion we'll go nowhere. This is a new world and unless we get behind the UN and never let go then we won't be an independent country much longer.

 

[Said1]

How will the UN save us?

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Should Canada become a World Cop?

How will the UN save us?

You're not allowed to ask complex questions like that.

 

[Said1]

I like the idea o the UN, but states still look after their interests, and vote accordingly when necessary.

If everyone's interests coincided with Canada, then that would be ideal. The "Turbot War" is a good example of the EU overstepping institutional moratoriums set on fish quotas and setting their own in favour of Spain and Portugal.

An institutionalist would argue that the institution needs to be strengthened, but again, it's only effective as it's members allow it to be.

 

[darkbeaver]

Re: RE: Should Canada become a World Cop?

How will the UN save us?

Together we stand divided we fall, it's as simple as that, and if the UN wasn't a very good idea Uncle Sam wouldn't be so adamantly against it.