Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
0
36
Oklahoma, USA
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

bhoour said:
Nascar_James said:
It's not fear, Kid. It's the confidence and freedom of being able to defend my family and property with whatever force is necessary (including deadly force if the situation warrants).
.

:roll:
So you keep a gun on hand just in case? To feel safe. :scratch:

You don't feel you could protect your family without a gun? That's a pretty eff'd up society to live in.
A constant state of paranoia.

Well, what would you do if you lived in one of those states (like New York, Chicago ...) with strict gun control and where armed home invasions are frequent? How would you protect your family if two armed intruders bust into your home and threatened your family with a gun? That is a scenario I hope I will not ever have to go through, or anyone else for that matter, however if I am unfortunate to ever come across this situation, I will not give the criminals the upper hand. I will surely not give them the opportunity to inflict any harm on my family.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,363
61
48
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

the caracal kid said:
the "criminals" already have the upper hand because you are living in fear of their arrival.

exactly!! and this is the concept that so many don't grasp....

( an aside......but relates: the "terrorists" have "won" hands down in their "fight "with the US. Same principle )
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
0
36
Oklahoma, USA
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

the caracal kid said:
the "criminals" already have the upper hand because you are living in fear of their arrival.

Not so, Caracal. As we've seen in many cities across the US, criminals will generally only come out when they know their chances of succeeding are good. If they are located in a city where say every other home is equpped with at least one gun, they will seriously reconsider their actions as they could pick the wrong home.

If you look at the stats. for home burglaries/invasions across the US (or North America for that matter) you will see that the rates are higher for cities with strict gun control. What is the point of initiating gun control if it creates an environment where the criminals come out of the woodworks. I'd personally have an environment where the criminals are kept at bay (preferably in custody).
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
0
36
Oklahoma, USA
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

Ocean Breeze said:
the caracal kid said:
the "criminals" already have the upper hand because you are living in fear of their arrival.

exactly!! and this is the concept that so many don't grasp....

( an aside......but relates: the "terrorists" have "won" hands down in their "fight "with the US. Same principle )

The terrorists have paid a heavy price since that fateful day of 9/11. Their network has been disrupted to say the least. If you look at the casualty count in the war against terror, the casualty count amungst the terrorist insurgents greatly overshadows the casualty count amungst the coalition/coalition of the willing troops.

Bottom line ... the terrorists are losing!
 

Roy

Electoral Member
Nov 23, 2005
218
0
16
Alberta
although I do not favor US style gun laws (certain states) I do have to say that NascarJames has a point. People should know that even if you ban handguns in Canada, they will find their way into the hands of thugs and criminals.

So you keep a gun on hand just in case? To feel safe. scratch

You don't feel you could protect your family without a gun? That's a pretty eff'd up society to live in.
A constant state of paranoia.

when my grandparents were younger, about 15 years ago they were robbed while they were in the house by 2 men with a knife. Luckily grampa wasen't stabbed but he did receive a few punches to his face even though he was not threatning them. Gramma was not hurt but she and gramp were shoved into the bathroom while the thugs robbed the place. Now he did own rifles and a shotgun but he always kept them in his garage stored away so he was not able to grab it to defend himself.

I really can't see how he could of defended himself, I mean do you think it would be a good idea to get into a knife fight? My grampa is the one of the most gentle guy youll ever meet but to this day he always insists on keeping a firearm usually in the closet of his room.......can you blame the guy?

I think all citizens have the right to defend themselves, and firearms are most effective. I don't want to see Canada allow concealed weapons or assault rifels or anything like that but a law abiding citizen should have the right to possess a longgun or handgun for protection.

just my 2 cents
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

Nascar_James said:
Ocean Breeze said:
the caracal kid said:
the "criminals" already have the upper hand because you are living in fear of their arrival.

exactly!! and this is the concept that so many don't grasp....

( an aside......but relates: the "terrorists" have "won" hands down in their "fight "with the US. Same principle )

The terrorists have paid a heavy price since that fateful day of 9/11. Their network has been disrupted to say the least. If you look at the casualty count in the war against terror, the casualty count amungst the terrorist insurgents greatly overshadows the casualty count amungst the coalition/coalition of the willing troops.

Bottom line ... the terrorists are losing!

anybody that tells you that you can win a war on terror is ignorant about the issues of terrorism or just plain lieing to you.

terrorism is a product, not a cause. to end terrorism you need to address the issues that lead to terrorism.

the same is true of crime. you do not defeat crime by arming yourself and then sticking your head in the sand wrt the underlying issues.

unfortunately, it is just easier to blame the criminals or the terrorists than to look at the reasons for both.
 

Patsplace

New Member
Dec 26, 2005
23
0
1
It's remarkable that those that speak of terror know so little of it. They do not want to conquer us, rule us or take our stuff. They want to kill all infidels. Pure and simple. The sooner the intentions of the Islamist Terrorists is understood, the better.

On the topic of being armed to defend yourself if need arise.
So you keep a gun on hand just in case? To feel safe.

You don't feel you could protect your family without a gun? That's a pretty eff'd up society to live in.

And what chance do you have to defend yourself if unarmed? Dialing 911? Kung fake just before they swarm you? What chance does the single woman have, or the aged? When you make blanket statements about ineffective defense of a persons home, make sure you don't advocate ritual suicide in the great rush to condemn those that will fight and realize that being armed is now, as it always has been, a necessary evil. By the way, that eff'd up society is where you live.

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.
Pat
 

GreenGreta

Electoral Member
Jun 5, 2005
854
1
18
Lala Land
I like my American friends, but sometimes, man, you gotta shut the hell up.

I think that by allowing Americans to post in this thread we have completely lost the point. In CANADA, we are not used to having some as*hole open fire on our streets. In CANADA, we get upset to hear of an innocent 19 year old girl killed on Boxing day just for standing there. Maybe in the states crap like this is second nature, and you can say to yourself "maybe if the girl had a gun of her own, none of this would have happened". What would her having her own gun have done? Just created more chaos, more people hurt, more bullets flying? I'm sorry, but that attitude is absolute insanity. Having a gun in my closet takes my safety AWAY, not provides it. If a locked door isn't enough, it's time to move.

The two documents you have discussed over and over are American and have nothing to do with us. I don't want American rules and attitudes here. That's the last thing we friggin need.
 

bhoour

Electoral Member
May 10, 2005
608
0
16
earth
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

Nascar_James said:
Ocean Breeze said:
the caracal kid said:
the "criminals" already have the upper hand because you are living in fear of their arrival.

exactly!! and this is the concept that so many don't grasp....

( an aside......but relates: the "terrorists" have "won" hands down in their "fight "with the US. Same principle )
Ocean B and Carcal I agree.

The terrorists have paid a heavy price since that fateful day of 9/11. Their network has been disrupted to say the least. If you look at the casualty count in the war against terror, the casualty count amungst the terrorist insurgents greatly overshadows the casualty count amungst the coalition/coalition of the willing troops.

Bottom line ... the terrorists are losing!


No the people in Iraq are losing. The casualty count of civilians out numbers the terriorists.
Rememeber, your troops left Afganistan and went to fight for the oil.
Bin Laden is still a free man.
:roll:
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,363
61
48
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

Nascar_James said:
Ocean Breeze said:
the caracal kid said:
the "criminals" already have the upper hand because you are living in fear of their arrival.

exactly!! and this is the concept that so many don't grasp....

( an aside......but relates: the "terrorists" have "won" hands down in their "fight "with the US. Same principle )

The terrorists have paid a heavy price since that fateful day of 9/11. Their network has been disrupted to say the least. If you look at the casualty count in the war against terror, the casualty count amungst the terrorist insurgents greatly overshadows the casualty count amungst the coalition/coalition of the willing troops.

Bottom line ... the terrorists are losing!

Wow..........Is THAT how you measure this ??? Ya gotta be kidding. For each "terrorist " ya kill......you just sprouted many more. As long as they are such a fear factor in your society's daily life.........they have been winning all along. Your esteemed Pharoah Of stupidity and lies......has done most of the work for them anyhow. He has picked up on the fear factor like he was in sync with them. "terrorists" don't have to actively DO anything again for many years and the residual fear will still exist, security programs will continue to be enhanced, and rights will continue to be trampled. Some directly , some indirectly ....and most when you don't even know it is happening. All the population needs to hear is "terrorist" ........or some "alert".....and it has now been conditioned to "fear" on command.

Each law is made to prevent/deter crime. and even with all the laws and GUNS........the criminal is ahead of the game.

Psychologically........gangs, terrorists, criminals KNOW they have the power with the used of weapons, and their intent/desire to commit whatever crime they wish. So they get caught.....big deal. Most are hardened criminals by the time they are 20 any how. They also know what their odds are.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
It's remarkable that those that speak of terror know so little of it. They do not want to conquer us, rule us or take our stuff. They want to kill all infidels. Pure and simple. The sooner the intentions of the Islamist Terrorists is understood, the better.
:lol: :lol:

your so-called islamist terrorists are the product of the west needing an enemy. Don't bore me with western propaganda.
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
0
36
Oklahoma, USA
GreenGreta said:
I like my American friends, but sometimes, man, you gotta shut the hell up.

I think that by allowing Americans to post in this thread we have completely lost the point. In CANADA, we are not used to having some as*hole open fire on our streets. In CANADA, we get upset to hear of an innocent 19 year old girl killed on Boxing day just for standing there. Maybe in the states crap like this is second nature, and you can say to yourself "maybe if the girl had a gun of her own, none of this would have happened". What would her having her own gun have done? Just created more chaos, more people hurt, more bullets flying? I'm sorry, but that attitude is absolute insanity. Having a gun in my closet takes my safety AWAY, not provides it. If a locked door isn't enough, it's time to move.

The two documents you have discussed over and over are American and have nothing to do with us. I don't want American rules and attitudes here. That's the last thing we friggin need.

Ahemmm .... firstly, some of us Americans are ex-Canadians who owned handguns in Canada as well. Secondly, in your comment "If a locked door isn't enough, it's time to move.", that is the cowards way out and caving in to the criminals. If you are forced to move, and give up your freedom to live in your own house as a result of criminal activity, you might as well let them take the clothes off your back as well.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,363
61
48
Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

the caracal kid said:
Nascar_James said:
Ocean Breeze said:
the caracal kid said:
the "criminals" already have the upper hand because you are living in fear of their arrival.

exactly!! and this is the concept that so many don't grasp....

( an aside......but relates: the "terrorists" have "won" hands down in their "fight "with the US. Same principle )

The terrorists have paid a heavy price since that fateful day of 9/11. Their network has been disrupted to say the least. If you look at the casualty count in the war against terror, the casualty count amungst the terrorist insurgents greatly overshadows the casualty count amungst the coalition/coalition of the willing troops.

Bottom line ... the terrorists are losing!

anybody that tells you that you can win a war on terror is ignorant about the issues of terrorism or just plain lieing to you.

terrorism is a product, not a cause. to end terrorism you need to address the issues that lead to terrorism.

the same is true of crime. you do not defeat crime by arming yourself and then sticking your head in the sand wrt the underlying issues.

unfortunately, it is just easier to blame the criminals or the terrorists than to look at the reasons for both.

k.k. Excellent post.


"war" on "terrorism" .....is a "war- tangible action- on an abstract. Does not work ......except for politicians of the wild west era. Everything is a "war" with them. Makes no rational sense.

just like "war' on "crime". more poli-talk. and propaganda. We gotta get out of that insane 'war' mentality........as believe it or not it is contagious... as is anger, resentment and other elements that are the contributing factors to crime/terrorism.
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
0
36
Oklahoma, USA
the caracal kid said:
It's remarkable that those that speak of terror know so little of it. They do not want to conquer us, rule us or take our stuff. They want to kill all infidels. Pure and simple. The sooner the intentions of the Islamist Terrorists is understood, the better.
:lol: :lol:

your so-called islamist terrorists are the product of the west needing an enemy. Don't bore me with western propaganda.

Let us not forget, the terrorists started the war when they attacked us first on 9/11. We sure as hell did not back away from their fight. We took the war to them and made them pay a heavy price. We had every right to go after them.
 

bhoour

Electoral Member
May 10, 2005
608
0
16
earth
Patsplace said:
It's remarkable that those that speak of terror know so little of it. They do not want to conquer us, rule us or take our stuff. They want to kill all infidels. Pure and simple. The sooner the intentions of the Islamist Terrorists is understood, the better.

On the topic of being armed to defend yourself if need arise.
So you keep a gun on hand just in case? To feel safe.

You don't feel you could protect your family without a gun? That's a pretty eff'd up society to live in.

And what chance do you have to defend yourself if unarmed? Dialing 911? Kung fake just before they swarm you? What chance does the single woman have, or the aged? When you make blanket statements about ineffective defense of a persons home, make sure you don't advocate ritual suicide in the great rush to condemn those that will fight and realize that being armed is now, as it always has been, a necessary evil. By the way, that eff'd up society is where you live.

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.
Pat



I'm quite aware of where I live.
I thankfully don't have the mentality that being armed is a necessary evil.
It's hardly a blanket statement. I lost a friend who was killed by a gun, that was kept for , protection. A person in the home decided he was pissed at his wife and tried to kill her. Instead he blew most of her hand off, while her kids watched, and killed my friend. Nice protection, really helped keep them safe.
I also am a victim of sexual assault and would not carry a gun for protection. I fought before and survived. I will not live in a state of fear.

Do you watch many movies. You think the criminal, is going to wait for Grandpa to get his gun...? .......?

Paranoia may destroy you.
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,363
61
48
Nascar_James said:
the caracal kid said:
It's remarkable that those that speak of terror know so little of it. They do not want to conquer us, rule us or take our stuff. They want to kill all infidels. Pure and simple. The sooner the intentions of the Islamist Terrorists is understood, the better.
:lol: :lol:

your so-called islamist terrorists are the product of the west needing an enemy. Don't bore me with western propaganda.

Let us not forget, the terrorists started the war when they attacked us first on 9/11. We sure as hell did not back away from their fight. We took the war to them and made them pay a heavy price. We had every right to go after them.


You recite the scripture from the bush bible. ......which is empty on fact and substance.


and yes.......if a neighborhood gets too violent......you have a choice..... Move to another ,more pleasant and safe one.......or stay and arm yourself to the teeth.....while still living in fear and anxiety.

You amerikans and your labels of cowardess........sheeesh. One is hard pressed to know if any of you know what it really means.......but you sure HATE IT .......and HATE is part of the US problem today.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
history is your friend. may i humbly suggest studying the root causes and timelines of the rise of islamic terrorism?

just because you were comfortable in your home in the US does not mean that the US gov was not involved in activities elsewhere.

Islamic Terrorism
A Socio-Cultural-Psychological Perspective
Minghui GAO, May 2003


Since the 9-11 Attack, it’s become common to build a link between Islam and terrorism, insisting “Islam [has been] a breeding ground for terrorism and war.”[1] This is indicated by the coined term “Islamic Terrorism.”[2] The claim sounds reasonable. For example, all the 19 hijackers of the 9-11 Attack were Islamists.[3] Also, of the major terrorist organizations in the globe, 10-15% are in the Islamic world. In Palestine alone, terrorist organizations are supposed to command the allegiance of 25-40% of the population, reaching 60-70% in some spots in the Gaza Strip.[4] It is therefore very easy for many to conjure up such a picture: Islam gives birth to terrorism.

However, this argument is not convincing. First of all, it is methodologically based on the use of a small sample to verify a general hypothesis. As a matter of fact, terrorism is not linked to any particular religion.[5] That Islam is involved in terrorist activity does not mean that it was born to be pro-terrorism. Osama bin Laden does use Islamic terminology to win support and sympathy of the Muslim masses, but this does not make his Al-Qaida an Islamic organization. Osama bin Laden has his own agenda and his acts by no means represent Islamic teachings. No religion in the world, much less Islam, teaches terrorism or inspires any one to kill innocent people. The Koran clearly says that killing any person without a just cause amounts to killing the whole of humanity and saving one person’s life amounts to saving the entirety of humanity.[6] Islam, like most major religions in the world, is essentially a religion of peace. Therefore, though the title of this essay uses the term “Islamic Terrorism,” it does not follow that I agree with the commonsense claim that Islam is pro-terrorism.

Individually experienced religion, viewed as a response to difficulties in the world, is a representation of social realities in ritualized form.[7] Similarly, the present-day terrorist activities in the name of Islam are to some degree responses to the realities of socio-cultural-psychological changes in the Islamic world. A socio-cultural-psychological perspective[8] might help delineate a general picture of the causes of Islamic terrorism. In this sense, this analysis is an attempt to understand the socio-cultural-psychological roles the rise and fall of the Islamic world has played in the evolution of Islamic terrorism.

Mechanism of Societal Crisis and Strategy
Psychological research argues that difficult situations and psychotic anxieties are associated with each other and become the source of the main emotional drives of a group and the ultimate source of group behaviors.[9] When facing failures and humiliations, the people of a society will experience anxiety. This anxiety is consolidated into a powerful momentum for individual or collective actions of hostility and desire to get rid of the frustrations and crises by harming those responsible.[10] Rapid social-cultural transformation and its consequent structural instability reduce material well-being, endanger security, and threaten the self-concept of the society and its members. Societal crisis appears when the self-concept of the society, especially one with a strong sense of glory and high self-concept, is threatened or harmed. Thus arise powerful self-protective motives to defend the self-concept, values, self-esteem and ways of life.[11]

Human’s psychological needs must be controlled, or satisfied. As a common response when things are going badly, blaming others is often one functional way to diminish a group’s own responsibility. By pointing to a cause of the problem, such a response offers a solution by taking actions against the attributed enemy. It also allows the society and its individuals to feel connected as they blame others, thus elevating the group’s self-concept.[12]

However, given sometimes that “those responsible are too powerful, or they are leaders with whom people identify too much to focus their hostility on them,”[13] it is often not possible for the weak side to defeat its powerful opponent through regular approaches, political, economic and military. In contrast, irregular approaches that are difficult to predict and react to, like kidnapping, blackmailing, assassinating, bombing, and so on. not only can help to satisfy the needs of the weak side but also can provide the possibility of weakening and ultimately defeating the enemy.

Irregular approaches usually become attractive to the weak side in conflicts. Terrorism, as a threat to global peace and security, is just such an irregular approach against powerful opponents. It is clear that terrorism is seen as an irregularity, inconsistent with proper conduct. Terrorism is also seen as a deviant, unacceptable behavior, and anything that is tied into the act of terrorism is frowned upon.[14] However, in some cases, terrorist action is the only possible alternative in effecting social or political change.[15] A case in point is Islamic terrorism, which to some extent is exactly such an alternative for Muslims who not only cherish ancient Islamic glory but undergo also the societal humiliations resulted from the decline of Islamic civilization.

The Rise and Fall of Islamic Civilization
Past Glory
There is no doubt that human civilization today owes much to Islamic civilization. From the 7th to the 13th century, Arabs built up a powerful empire stretching across parts of three continents including Europe, Asia and Africa. With the geopolitical expansion of the Arab Empire, Islamic civilization underwent splendid advancements. During the Abbasid dynasty (750-1258 A.D), Islamic civilization reached its zenith.

To name a few advances, in mathematics, Arabs, by learning from Indian civilization, introduced to other civilizations the far-reaching “Arabic Numbers” including the Arab-originated “Zero.” In astronomy, Biruni (973-1048), “one of the very greatest scientists of all time,”[16] made an accurate determination of latitude and longitude, and, six hundred years before Galileo, discussed the possibility of Earth’s rotation around its own axis. The greatest name in physics during the Arab Empire was Ibn al-Haytham, who made major contributions to optics, astronomy and mathematics. The development and, indeed, the creation of European medicine might be unimaginable without the Arabs’ contribution. Chemistry was first studied among Arabs in the seventh century A.D.[17]

Islamic civilization is also known for the man whom modern scholars consider the true father of modern historiography and of the science of sociology—Ibn Khaldun. As Toynbee remarked, “Ibn Khaldun has conceived and formulated a philosophy of history which is undoubtedly the greatest work of its kind that has ever yet been created by any mind in any time.”[18] Arab architecture was one of the greatest ornamental glories of the time. Islamic craftsmen displayed a long history of excellence in the bookmaking arts, such as leather binding, which made a deep mark upon Europe.[19] For centuries, Arab learning and scholarship played a leading role in the development of education and academics in the West. A good case in point is that the application of empiricism in all fields of study was rapidly incorporated into the learning system of those who became familiar with Arab methodology.[20]

The past glory of Islamic civilization gave Muslim life a new meaning.[21] It is safe to say that, on the one hand, the glory of Islamic civilization played an important and positive role in the formation of Muslims’ high societal self-concept; on the other, when the glory became merely a good memory and the whole society faced a range of humiliations, the past glory then contributed tremendously to the evolution of Muslims’ societal crisis

Decline and Humiliations
In the 13th century, Islamic civilization started to undergo a great decline. Ranges of reasons have been advanced. An important one was the invasions of Mongolians and the Crusaders. Another was the invasion and governance of the Turkish Ottoman Empire, which, as a different center of Islamic power succeeding the Abbasid Dynasty, launched a series of wars with neighboring countries.[22] These are indeed immediate causes. A particular and important consequence was that the Mongolians’ invasions in the 13th century destroyed Muslim cultural, educational, and academic institutions, and ended the golden age of the Islamic learning, with a few exceptions, like the work by Ibn Khaldun.[23]

However, historians, Muslims and others, have also found flaws in these arguments. After all, Islamic civilization is not the only one that suffered from foreign invasions. They suggest that there are other deeper roots. As Toynbee pointed out, “The failure of a civilization to survive was the result of its inability to respond to moral and religious challenges, rather than to physical or environmental challenges.”[24] As Muqtedar Khan argues, human existence largely depends on the power of ideas; ideas that once liberated a society, if allowed to become stale, will result in stagnation and decline of that society.[25] That arguably is what has happened to the Islamic civilization. With the mega-destruction effected by said foreign invasions, there was a rise in conservatism as an attempt to preserve what remained of Islamic civilization. As a result, “Innovative and original ideas were not welcomed the way they had been before the invasions.”[26] Muslims have since become estranged “from the creative process of idea generation that has stripped the Islamic civilization of its vitality and its brilliance.”[27]

In the course of the 19th and 20th centuries, the Islamic world experienced a transformation from a producer of ideas to a recycler of the ideas of its forefathers as well as a consumer of Western ideas.[28] Modernizers of the Islamic world have tried many remedies—military, economic and political—but none achieved the desired results; they failed to remedy or even to stop the deteriorating imbalance between the Islamic world and the Western world. It was terrible for Muslims to lose the leadership that they had come to regard as their right, and to be reduced to the role of followers of the West and even East Asian countries, like Japan, South Korea.[29]

Moreover, the 20th century, particularly the second half, brought the Islamic world further humiliations. A case in point is a series of military defeats in Israel-Arab conflicts, for example, the four Arab-Israeli Wars in 1948 (the War of Independence for Israel), 1956 (Sinai War), 1967 (Six-Day War) and 1973 (Yom Kippur War or October War). These defeats occurred despite the Arab nations’ tremendous oil wealth, a total of combined territories 650 fold greater, and a population 50 fold greater than Israel.[30] Particularly, “[the] Six-Day War [most] profoundly humiliated the Arab states, especially Egypt, Syria and Jordan, whose armies were completely destroyed by Israel. In less than a week, Israel had captured three times the size of its territory.”[31] The consequences of the war shocked the Arab world, leaving millions feeling lost, hopeless and helpless. The Arab masses in cynicism, disillusionment and despair crowded into Mosques, looking for consolation and “an outlet to relieve their anger and pain.”[32]

Road from Revivalism to Terrorism
From Elites to Terrorists
Demographic findings indicate that Islamic terrorists are predominantly young male Muslims. Most of them have at least some university education and come from middle-class professional and upper-class families.[33] One outstanding case is Osama bin Laden, who was born in a billionaire family and inherited wealth amounting to hundreds of millions of dollars. If he wanted, he could lead a life of luxury; he does not need to fight in Afghanistan and live in mountain caves at all. There must be other deep reasons for his choice. Another case is Mohamed Atta, one of the 19 hijackers in the 9-11 Attack. His will, written in 1996 and found by FBI after the 9-11 Attack, indicates that he had no interest in material wellbeing. Atta wrote, “When I die…I want the clothes I wear to consist of three white pieces of cloth, not to be made from silk or expensive material.” “A third of my money should be spent on the poor and needy.”[34]

These educated Arabs know the glory of their nation and civilization, so they are more likely than the Arab masses to feel the humiliations and weakness of the Islamic world. While they are able to lead a quiet rich life, they choose fighting, bombing, kidnapping and killing. Research indicates that terrorists are in general normal individuals in their psychological profiles.[35] Therefore, a possible explanation is that their strong morality and self-esteem do not allow them to cut themselves off from the fate and future of their nation. The misfortune of reality sets up arenas for their heroism and idealism. They are fighting not for their own wealth or material well-being; they are fighting for their nation or society, to defend their societal self-concept and self-esteem. They were originally members of elites, but turned to terrorism when confronting their nation’s decline and humiliations and the powerful enemies of the Western world and Jews and the U.S. in particular. This does not mean that I agree with their behaviors, nor does it imply what stance I take toward the conflicts in Middle East. I am just examining how Islamic terrorism has evolved and who the Islamic terrorists are.

Looking for Enemies
Since 1948, Islamic terrorists have seen in the Jews—as partners and allies of the new “crusaders” in the West—a new enemy in the global conspiracy against Islam as a culture and religion, and against the Muslim nation in general.[36] Besides, given that the Arab states in the Middle East fall into three groups in terms of their different attitudes toward the West, especially the U.S., and that some of the Arab states are well known for their corruption, Islamic terrorists also view these pro-West/US Arab governments and their corrupted rulers as enemies. In his sermons, Osama bin Laden states, “We still suffer from the injuries inflicted by the [new] Crusaders’ wars on the Islamic world in the last century and by the Sykes-Picot agreement between Britain and France, which divided the Muslim world into fragments and truncated limbs where [the new] Crusaders’ agents still rule.” [37] He adds, “The Bush-Blair agreement pretends that it wants to put an end to terrorism. However, it is no longer a secret even from the masses that it wants [in fact] to put an end to Islam. Nonetheless, the rulers of the region [i.e., the Middle East] emphasize in their notes and speeches their support for Bush in his war against terrorism, which is [in fact] a war on Islam and Muslims, in flagrant betrayal of both faith and Nation.”[38] As for bin Laden, “The rulers of the Arab states have betrayed Allah, the Prophet and the Nation.”[39]

The terrorist activity of Islamic radical groups has since the early 1980s been aimed primarily at the United States, within the context of the growing global conflict between social-political cultures: Islam and the Muslim world versus America as the leading expression of Western culture. This perception harmonized with the permanent conflict in the Middle East, since WWII gave Islamic radicals an excellent opportunity to expand further the theme of an eternal global rivalry between the main cultures of the world. [40]

Muslims increasingly see the West as an enemy, not necessarily for religious reasons but for socio-economic ones, as with “the growing hatred of the wealthy Western countries; the growing alienation of different factions of societies from one another; together with the burst of nationalistic disputes and open conflicts after the fall of the Soviet Union.”[41] All this has resulted in a sense of global cultural conflict between the U.S.—the principal leader of the West—and the Islamic world, a great part of the so-called Third World. This sense of conflict brought with it a growing “solidarity of the poor,” strengthened by religious ties. And this in turn gave rise to the feeling that an American or Western attack on any Muslim country or internal group constitutes an attack on the whole of the Muslim world. This solidarity is based also on the Islamist view that the unification of the Muslim world is the primary mission of Muslims in their time on Earth. A result of this cohesion is that governments under threat of internal terrorism on a religious basis join the general choir of condemnations of the West. [42]

In addition to the foreign enemies, Islamic radical groups also find their internal enemies. The Arab states in Middle East fall into three groups in terms of their different attitudes toward the West, especially the USA. Some of the Arab states are well known for their corruption. Islamists hope to reunite religion and political power in the Islamic world, dreaming of the revival of their past glory and removing their modern humiliations. They—whether ruled by the elementary doctrines[43] of the Muslim Brotherhood, or by the ideology developed by Sayyed Qutb, father of some of the modern Jihad groups—had long before started to seek the revival of the former Arab empire, the unification of the Muslim world as one nation, and the reclamation of Islamic glory.[44] In order to build up a monolithic state led by an Islamic party, Sayyid Qutb advocated using every violent means necessary.[45] Of the influential Islamist organizations, the Muslim Brotherhood led the road to Islamic terrorism.

Terrorist Activity
The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928. It’s known as an Islamic revivalist movement following the collapse of the Turkish Ottoman Empire and the subsequent ban of the caliphate system of government that had united the Muslims for hundreds of years. Hasan Al-Banna, the founder of the Brotherhood, based the doctrines of the Brotherhood on the tenets of what is known today as “Islamism.” He held that Islam was not only a religious observance but also a comprehensive way of life. He insisted on supplementing the traditional Islamic education for the Society’s male students with jihadia training.[46]

The Brotherhood grew as a popular movement of religion, education and politics in 1930s, and started performing terrorist acts inside of Egypt. The Brotherhood blamed the Egyptian government for being inactive against “Zionists.” As a result, the Egyptian government banned the Brotherhood. After a Brother assassinated Mahmud Fahmi Nokrashi, the Prime Minister of Egypt, in 1948, the Brotherhood was legalized again, though only as a religious organization.

However, the Brotherhood seemed not to care very much about its status and boundaries as a religious organization; its members actively participated in political affairs, insisting that Egypt be governed under Shari’a (Islamic law). Thus in 1954 again the Brotherhood was banned. A Brotherhood activist who attempted to assassinate Egyptian President Nasser was executed, along with five other Brothers. The Egyptian government also put some four thousand Brothers in jail. Under this circumstance, thousands of Brothers fled to Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Lebanon, where consequently the spread of terrorist ideology was extremely accelerated.[47]

In 1964, the imprisoned Brothers were granted amnesty, but President Nasser’s policy was welcomed by three more assassination attempts conducted by the Brothers. Two years later, the top leaders of the Brotherhood were executed and many others were imprisoned. Anwar-as-Sadat, Nasser’s successor, promised the Brothers that the Egyptian government would implement Shari’a as the Egyptian law and released all the imprisoned Brothers. However, when Sadat signed the peace agreement with Israel in 1979, the Brothers lost their trust and assassinated Sadat in September 1981.[48]

During the Muslim Brothers’ seventy-plus years of existence, the organization captured 17 seats in the Egyptian Parliament, with members running as independents and holding important offices in professional organizations in Egypt. In spite of being officially banned for some time, it witnessed rapid development and division into violent jihad groups, like al-Jihad and al-Gama’at al-Islamiyya in Egypt, HAMAS in Palestine and mujahideen groups in Afghanistan. It is recognized that the “best” result of nearly 100 yeas of Islamic revivalism is the Taliban in Afghanistan.[49] Though the U.S. defeated Taliban and Al-Qaida without much difficulty, few believe that the social-cultural-psychological roots of Islamic terrorism have been eliminated. And this undoubtedly is a critical factor, up on which the prospect of anti-terrorism campaigns depends.

Can We Prevent Potential 9-11-like Attacks?
For the United States and its people, and even the whole world, there seems to be no other answers to this question: 9-11-like attacks must be prevented. One might say: He will remove terrorists by taking actions against terrorism, like the recent war in Afghanistan. However, even if we can capture or kill most (definitely not all) of the terrorists, this does not necessarily mean that we can eliminate terrorism. If the social, cultural and psychological root causes of terrorism still exist, new generations of terrorists will surely arise. Even if we can eliminate every known terrorist and terrorist cell, we probably cannot eliminate terrorism. It is now obvious that, while Islamic terrorists cannot defeat their powerful enemies like the U.S. on a regular military basis, probably they will continue their irregular hostile approach because they see it as a spiritual struggle.[50]

The causes of Islamic terrorism are complicated. This analysis is just an attempt to understand the general picture. Beginning with the mechanism of societal crisis and strategy, and the rise and fall of Islamic civilization, the analysis delineated the route to Islamic terrorism followed by some major Islamic terrorist organizations, at the end touching on the tricky problem of preventing 9-11-like Attacks. This examination is surely inadequate to explore fully the deep roots of Islamic terrorism. Understanding of Islamic terrorism could be broadened and deepened by considering many other fields, such as, Islamic Fundamentalism, globalization, and psychotic ethno-nationality. Hopefully, even this much of an account will be helpful for those interested in and concerned about the enduring conflicts and instability torturing the Arab Islamic world
http://gseweb.harvard.edu/~t656_web/peace/Articles_Spring_2003/Gao_Minghui_IslamicTerrorism.htm
 

Ocean Breeze

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 5, 2005
18,363
61
48
Nascar_James said:
the caracal kid said:
It's remarkable that those that speak of terror know so little of it. They do not want to conquer us, rule us or take our stuff. They want to kill all infidels. Pure and simple. The sooner the intentions of the Islamist Terrorists is understood, the better.
:lol: :lol:

your so-called islamist terrorists are the product of the west needing an enemy. Don't bore me with western propaganda.

Let us not forget, the terrorists started the war when they attacked us first on 9/11. We sure as hell did not back away from their fight. We took the war to them and made them pay a heavy price. We had every right to go after them.


Ya know.....for the shaggin' record........we are sick and tired of hearing you use 9-11 as an excuse for YOUR atrocious conduct. Did Spain go off half cocked when it was attacked ?? Did London ?? Did any other region ?? of course not........because that is NOT the resolution to the problem. But of course the US realized that this was the golden opportunity handed to them by OBL inc. to invade, occupy and steal from at least two other countries. meanwhile OBL Inc......is alive and well and can be used to perpetuate the US war machine.


You have been had....
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
4,837
2
38
Independent Palestine
Now I am in the Canadian military and on the topic of handguns, I get a personal firearm. And that is the way it should be. Police officers and Soldiers having weapons and that is that. If you are so afraid of criminals, the only ones who should have weapons are the military and the police.

Unless you don't trust the government.

And to note on the terrorist war. It is all a shame, well not really, but Osama Bin Laden was an American puppet until the early 1990s. Saddam Hussein, American puppet. Everything the Americans do, in twenty to thirty years they have to fix it through violence, and terror.

There will always be 'terrorism' American revolutionaries were terrorists to the British, so this war on terror will blow when Americans get to sick to take casualties.