Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

[Summer]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown

This is the text of the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

It speaks of the necessity of a well-regulated militia, but it guarantees the right of the people to keep and bear arms. It doesn't differentiate between people who are or are not members of said militia.

The basic reason for this is because back in the time this was written, any citizen was as likely as any other to be asked to serve in such a milita, and if that happened, he'd better be ready to bring his own weapon, so that meant he'd better have one already, because things could happen at a moment's notice.

That's why they were called "Minuteman" if my memory serves me right...

Well, actually the Minutemen were during the Revolutionary War, while the 2nd amendment came later, but yes, that's the basic idea.

 

[Summer]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."

The right to bear arms must be read in context with the declaration of independance.

Why "must"? They're two completely separate documents.

Never mind that yes, it is always our right to throw off a despotic government, but conflating the Declaration with the Constitution isn't good scholarship, and leaves the lid loose on far too many cans of worms. Not to mention that the two documents were written for very different purposes.

 

[iamcanadian]

One document lead to the other. They where not each written in a vacuum. It stands to reason that when the constitution was written up the declaration was a document being referenced for many of the rights being negotiated between the people and the government.

 

[Summer]

RE: Shooting in Downtown

Whoa, in that one post you have just illustrated that you don't understand our Constitution or history at all....

 

[bhoour]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

So please don't make blanket statement.

I don't feeel it's a blanket statement. I think people are lazy, and overly dependent on cars.
Please don't tell me what to say.
:tongue:

 

[iamcanadian]

Summer, I wish you would be more proactive in discussing your point of view.

I am not professing to be a scolar in your constitution. The US revolted from British rule and then declared its independance. When it then wrote a constitution you cannot say that the events over independance did not influence the drafting of the constitution and the rights of its citizens.

 

[bhoour]

Cars, just like guns do not kill. People kill.

given that there is merit to this statement.......it follows that guns (and cars??? ) should not be available to PEOPLE. (including kids ) So this supports my arguement for a gunless society ( In my dreams :roll:

dogs and cats can have all they want. :wink:

:thumbleft:

 

[Summer]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

I wish you would be more proactive in discussing your point of view.

I am not professing to be a scolar in your constitution. The US revolted from British rule and declared its independance.

When it then wrote a constitution you cannot say that the events leading to independance did not influence the drafting of the constitution.

And I didn't say the events had nothing to do with it. But the purpose of the Declaration and the purpose of the Constitution were different. The former separated us from England; the latter delineated how we were to conduct ourselves internally as a nation. The reasons for what was written in the one and for what was written in the other were different. Most people confuse the two documents, but you really can't do that at get a sense of the true meaning and purpose of either that way.

 

[iamcanadian]

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."
AND

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

You can't say that these are not connected or that they have nothing to do with the other.

 

[Summer]

RE: Shooting in Downtown

Sure I can. What's more, I do. And furthermore, I'm right.

 

[iamcanadian]

I am sure you are right in your own mind but you are making no effort to advance the view in your favour. I can't possibly agree with you without evaluating a reasoned opinion if you care to share one.

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

Switzerland - population 6 million

- # of publicly owned firearms - 2 million!
this includes approx. 600,000 automatic rifles and 500,000 pistols;
- all men between the ages of 21-32 are given M57 assault rifles and 24 rounds of ammo by the government which they must keep at home;
- in addition there are few restrictions on buying guns;
- the government even sells off surplus firearms to citizens when new weapons are introduced;
- violent crime is very rare;
- there are minimal controls on public buildings;
- politicians rarely have police protection;
- gun crime is so low that statistics are not even kept.

Studies have continuously shown that cities with no gun control experience lower gun related crimes. Criminals are less inclinded to commit their crimes if there is a great chance that they will be met with armed resistance.

Example:

Within the town of Kennesaw, Georgia the law is that every household shall have a firearm and ammo for that gun in the house.

There are two exceptions:

Exception one is that you are a felon and then you can not legally have a gun. Exception two is that owning a firearm is against your religious beliefs.

By the law, any offical mandated by the city (normally just the police) can knock on your door and ask to see the firearm/ammo. You must produce both to the offical. If not, you will get a fine and/or jail time. The crime rate for the whole city of Kennesaw is a rating 1 which is the best you can get. (The rating scale is from 1-10 where 10 is high crime and 1 is virtually none). Most cities around Kennesaw have rating from 1-4/5 depending on the area in the city.

 

[the caracal kid]

there is nothing like living in fear to keep the masses in line.

everybody should have a gun, so much for a free nation. It is not a free nation that requires its citizens to stand on guard against one another. That is anything but free.

 

[Summer]

RE: Shooting in Downtown

IAC, just do some reading on the subject. And while you're at it, read my posts more carefully. The two documents are related BUT what you are pulling from each and trying to tie together don't go together in the way you are thinking.

I don't have time to dig up homework for you right now, as I have a holiday party to attend.

 

[the caracal kid]

what i find funny is the same people that argue the old "if everybody has a gun, crime goes down" line, are the same people that want government out of their business when the same argument regarding information can be applied: if the governemt knows the movements, actions, etc of everybody, then everybody is safer because people won't break laws because there is no anonymity.

Now that statement is academically true, but do you want "big brother" knowing EVERYTHING about you?

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

there is nothing like living in fear to keep the masses in line.

everybody should have a gun, so much for a free nation. It is not a free nation that requires its citizens to stand on guard against one another. That is anything but free.

It's not fear, Kid. It's the confidence and freedom of being able to defend my family and property with whatever force is necessary (including deadly force if the situation warrants).

In addition, if the system works, don't knock it. Many cities within the southern US have no gun control laws (no gun licensing nor registration required) and gun related crimes are remarkably low. Gun crimes within the US are higher in cities like New York/Chicago where gun rights have been highjacked by the far left liberals.

 

[the caracal kid]

and what kind of society is it where people need the "confidence and freedom of being able to defend my family and property with whatever force is necessary"?

 

[Nascar_James]

Chances are many of us will never have to go that route, Kid (using our weapons against a criminal). However, and unfortunately we will always have a criminal element in our society. As such, we should be able to defend ourselves and not give criminals the upper hand.

 

[the caracal kid]

you give criminals the upper hand by promoting a society that creates criminals.

 

[bhoour]

Re: RE: Shooting in Downtown Toronto......Happy Boxing Day!

It's not fear, Kid. It's the confidence and freedom of being able to defend my family and property with whatever force is necessary (including deadly force if the situation warrants).
.

:roll:
So you keep a gun on hand just in case? To feel safe. :scratch:

You don't feel you could protect your family without a gun? That's a pretty eff'd up society to live in.
A constant state of paranoia.