Salty social conservatives are galvanising in Ontario

[mentalfloss]

Yea I'm using my personal tailored definition because when you look at the last 10 - 15 years, most fiscal conservatives typically take the position that taxes are evil and need to be erased.

Respect for the taxflayers

 

[Cannuck]

You presume that a fiscal conservative opposes tax increases if necessary. I'll agree that manyof Canada's so-called 'fiscal conservatives' support cutting taxes at all costs. To me, that's not fiscal conservatism.

That said, we also recognize that the government needs to learn to distinguish between beneficial and harmful spending. We can't deny that much government spending goes to absolute waste.

True fiscal conservatives like myself have no problems with higher or lower taxes. What we desire is fiscal responsibility and value. Progressives like floss just want government control of everything. The left fringe and the right fringe aren't that different. They both want control but for different reasons

 

[Machjo]

Yea I'm using my personal tailored definition because when you look at the last 10 - 15 years, most fiscal conservatives typically take the position that taxes are evil and need to be erased.

Respect for the taxflayers

To me, those aren't fiscal conservatives though and they're just as bad if not worse than those who want the government to spend more than it can afford. What's the difference between cutting taxes more than we can afford to cut them and increasing funding more than we can afford to increase it? The end long-term result is Greece either way.

True fiscal conservatives like myself have

You support tax increses when necessary? I admit that I haven't read all of your posts in these forums so I might just have missed it.

Let's put it this way. If I were an MP when Haprer was the Prime Minister, I would probably have pushed for deep spending cuts. If I were an MP now under Trudeau, I'd probably be pushing for major tax increases. And I wouldn't see a contradiction either way.

In fact I'd probably make it clear to my constituents that while I prefer spending cuts, I will not hesitate to support tax increases if necessary to pay the debt according to the composition of Parliament.

 

[Cannuck]

You support tax increses when necessary? I admit that I haven't read all of your posts in these forums so I might just have missed it.

I am a goal focused individual. The issue is what do we wish to accomplish and what is the best way to achieve it. It may be having government run programs, volunteer run programs, programs run by the private sector. People like Flossy believe every firefighter should be paid by the government. Every doctors office should be run by the government. Every service that is run by the private sector can be more effectively and efficiently run by government. Reality and history proves that these ideas are nonsense.

I'm not an ideologue. Analyze each and every situation to determine the best approach and set your taxation levels accordingly. I believe in pilot projects. I'm not sure why progressives are against trying different models. Truly open-minded individuals wouldn't have a problem

 

[Machjo]

I am a goal focused individual. The issue is what do we wish to accomplish and what is the best way to achieve it. It may be having government run programs, volunteer run programs, programs run by the private sector. People like Flossy believe every firefighter should be paid by the government. Every doctors office should be run by the government. Every service that is run by the private sector can be more effectively and efficiently run by government. Reality and history proves that these ideas are nonsense.

I'm not an ideologue. Analyze each and every situation to determine the best approach and set your taxation levels accordingly. I believe in pilot projects. I'm not sure why progressives are against trying different models. Truly open-minded individuals wouldn't have a problem

Then maybe you, Flossy and I are not that different from one another and just exaggerate our differences.

There are differences no doubt, but I don't get the impression he wants to nationalise the local candy store either. We just sit at different points along a spectrum.

 

[Cannuck]

Then maybe you, Flossy and I are not that different from one another and just exaggerate our differences.

No, Flossy is an ideologue. The idea of a privately run hospital, home or private schooling or programs run by volunteers are unacceptable. I have no philosophical viewpoint for or against either way. Whichever provides the desired result for the least amount of money works for me.

 

[Machjo]

No, Flossy is an ideologue. The idea of a privately run hospital, home or private schooling or programs run by volunteers are unacceptable. I have no philosophical viewpoint for or against either way. Whichever provides the desired result for the least amount of money works for me.

He does seem to lean very strongly in favour of economic nationalism and state-ownership, I will grant you that.

 

[Cannuck]

He does seem to lean very strongly in favour of economic nationalism and state-ownership, I will grant you that.

It's not even what he "leans in favour" of. He's completely unwilling to accept alternatives.

 

[petros]

He does seem to lean very strongly in favour of economic nationalism and state-ownership, I will grant you that.

He is a hardcore Dipper.

 

[Cannuck]

He does seem to lean very strongly in favour of economic nationalism and state-ownership, I will grant you that.

The problem with his viewpoint is that it hurts people. As I've said, I'm a fiscal conservative and I want to help people. Spending tax dollars wisely means, without cutting taxes we could provide more services than we currently do. Floss doesn't care about that. He only cares that its the government that provides the service.

If you break your arm, do you really care who pays the person that sets it and casts it? I only care that its done properly, effectively and efficiently.

 

[Machjo]

The problem with his viewpoint is that it hurts people. As I've said, I'm a fiscal conservative and I want to help people. Spending tax dollars wisely means, without cutting taxes we could provide more services than we currently do. Floss doesn't care about that. He only cares that its the government that provides the service.

If you break your arm, do you really care who pays the person that sets it and casts it? I only care that its done properly, effectively and efficiently.

That's why I favour European-style two-tiered healthcare and Swedish-style school vouchers.

I find that especially in the Canadian context, education funding that is too strictly controlled by the government often leads to ethnocentrism in the system as it focuses more on promoting our lingusitic duality rather than on teaching labour-market skills.

Same with media funding. I'm actually in favour of a media voucher programme too, or at least as long as the media receives public funding.

 

[Cannuck]

That's why I favour European-style two-tiered healthcare and Swedish-style school vouchers.

I'm in favour of what works. I'd like to see a pilot project where the operations of a small municipality's hospital is contracted out. You could set some standards of care and have a 2 year pilot project to see what has worked well and not worked well. The ideologues would never go for it.

 

[Machjo]

I'm in favour of what works. I'd like to see a pilot project where the operations of a small municipality's hospital is contracted out. You could set some standards of care and have a 2 year pilot project to see what has worked well and not worked well. The ideologues would never go for it.

I do tend to support pilot project too, but also to look at what might have worked abroad. What has been tried abroad can also be considered a pilot project for in Canada.

Of course circumstances are different and on that front, it could always be worth trying it in Canada to make sure it works here too, maybe in one municipality.

 

[Cannuck]

I do tend to support pilot project too, but also to look at what might have worked abroad. What has been tried abroad can also be considered a pilot project for in Canada.

Of course circumstances are different and on that front, it could always be worth trying it in Canada to make sure it works here too, maybe in one municipality.

Sometimes what happens abroad can work, except one has to take into account, places like the UK have 70 million in an area the size of my living room so its not a straight across comparison

 

[personal touch]

Fiscal conservatism is just looking at a balance sheet and cutting costs to get votes.

It has been proven to be harmful to society.

Fiscal Conservatives are near sighted,or may I say old fiscal conservatives are near sighted

I'm in favour of what works. I'd like to see a pilot project where the operations of a small municipality's hospital is contracted out. You could set some standards of care and have a 2 year pilot project to see what has worked well and not worked well. The ideologues would never go for it.

There is so much to extend upon these concept s

 

[tay]

Social conservatives accuse Patrick Brown of ‘muzzling’ new candidate on sex-ed


Social conservatives accuse Patrick Brown of “muzzling” the Progressive Conservative candidate in an upcoming Ontario byelection to downplay the party leader’s flip-flopping on sex education.

Nineteen-year-old Sam Oosterhoff defeated the PC party president and a vice-president to win the nomination for the Nov. 17 byelection in Niagara-West Glanbrook, in part by campaigning against the province’s updated sex-education curriculum.

Charles McVety, president of Canada Christian College, said Oosterhoff ran on a “socially conservative platform,” and was talking about Ontario’s sex-education curriculum when he vowed to stand up for parents as first educators.

“One of the issues that he had on his website was to stand up for parental rights in education,” McVety said in an interview. “That’s obviously directed at the whole sex-ed issue ... but as soon as he becomes the candidate, all of a sudden Patrick doesn’t allow him to speak on this, to speak his mind.”

Oosterhoff has not responded to many requests for an interview since becoming the PC candidate, but Brown insisted he wasn’t trying to keep the teenager from talking with political reporters about the sex-ed curriculum.

“I can tell you Sam supports the direction I’m taking the party,” Brown said Tuesday. “We will make sure he’s available at some point in the near future.”

Queenie Yu, who ran as an independent in the Scarborough Rouge River byelection Sept. 1 solely on the issue of repealing the sex-ed curriculum, is running again in Niagara-West Glanbrook, but isn’t looking for votes.

Yu said she and other social conservatives believe Brown is not letting Oosterhoff speak to the media, so she’s running “to help voters see whether Brown is telling the truth or not.”

“I’m just being a voice for the issues that Sam believes in,” said Yu. “I believe that Sam is against sex ed, but he’s not allowed to talk about sex ed because of Patrick Brown.”

Brown signed up thousands of social conservatives when he ran for the Ontario PC leadership by opposing the Liberals’ sex-ed update, but then reversed position and “unilaterally declared that the party would be socially Liberal,” added McVety.

“For 10 years he had a perfect record as a social conservative and he signed us all up and we worked hard, donated money, time and effort, and then after he got the power he said ‘never mind,’” he complained.

“Bait and switch, and that’s what he did with us.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/queens...rown-of-muzzling-new-candidate-on-sex-ed.html

 

[JamesBondo]

Fiscal conservatives destroy GDP growth.

please make up your mind. in another thread, you declared GDP growth worthless. IF that is what you believe then when will you admit that your above statement is pretty weak.

 

[mentalfloss]

I said it was worthless to me and any other rational human being.

 

[lone wolf]

...and I asked you why you're so enchanted with being on rations.

:roll: Must be that pedigree thing again....

 

[Cannuck]

I said it was worthless to me...

Yes, that's obviously why you made the comment.