RNC chief: Gay marriage will burden small business

SirJosephPorter

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I think it means he is a homophobic bigot.

Bingo, Earh_as_one, you got it.

Legally, the debate is over.

It is over in Canada, but it is just beginning in USA. Until now SSM opponents had the upper hand but that is beginning to change. If 55% of Americans oppose gay marriage it is quite possible that in liberal states like New York, Massachusetts or Vermont, majority of people support SSM.
 

SirJosephPorter

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There is only one thing to say to religious bigots: "We can measure the damage done by rapists and murderers, but we have no way to assess the damage done by the self righteous." - Allan Watts

That is a good one, Cliffy. A murderer or a rapist will murder (or rape) one person, perhaps several. Self righteous will murder hundreds of thousand or millions (like crusades or medieval witch burnings), they will rape thousands (as they did in Bosnia, the Christian Serbs used rape as a weapon against Muslim Bosnians).
 

Francis2004

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I doubt that the comments were simply stated for financial reasons, though. Sounds to me the comments had an underlying motive to give people reason to not hire gays.

I have to agree.. Financially the point does not stand water as a spouse being male or female in a heterosexual relationship will cost just as much if not more if the spouse does not work and have their own benefits.. In a gay relationship it is more then likely that both will have job and benefits, so the excuse is more one of pitting small business to not hire gays in fear of added expenses and nothing more..
 

captain morgan

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There is only one thing to say to religious bigots: "We can measure the damage done by rapists and murderers, but we have no way to assess the damage done by the self righteous." - Allan Watts


You give new meaning to the term "religious". Regardless, there is another applicable quote by Watts:

"In other words, a person who is fanatic in matters of religion, and clings to certain ideas about the nature of God and the universe, becomes a person who has no faith at all."

Kinda sounds like you Cliffy.


At the end of the Roman Empire, homosexuality was common and accepted.

To quote L Gilbert: "Baloney"

Certainly it occurred, but it was not mainstream in any form. No different than any European, Middle Eastern or Eastern culture.



The empire eventually morphed into the Roman Catholic Church.

To quote L Gilbert: "Baloney"

You have such a hard-on for the Vatican that you can't see straight Cliffy. The church was 'founded' during this time, no different than the religious underpinnings that developed during Henry VIII's time... But then again, perhaps you believe that any philosophy that grew during Hank's time promotes butchering all your wives.



Could this account for the penchant for some priests boinking little boys and why their senior staff run around in crimson dresses? In case you are a fundie, just remember that it was Constantine who gave us the Catholic church and the bible.


Care to comment on other cultures/religions or spiritual followings like select North American Indian tribes that sodomized young children, butchered the men and elderly and enslaved the women/children of their enemies, scared the faces of the women they raped/sodomized in order to permanently announce to the world that they were defiled or the myriad of other mutilations or disfiguring tortures that were common at the time.

What do ya say Cliffy? How are you going to blame the Vatican for these heinous and savage acts?
 

captain morgan

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OK I want to know how Gay Marriage will further hurt small business. Whether a spouse is heterosexual or homosexual we still have a couple and no increase in people count ?

Give me hard proven stats not just hear say..




gay marriage won't hurt small business at all. The direct benefits afforded to employees by an employer exist to attract and retain employees. If the costs become prohibitive, then the programs cease for all.

Similarly, the opportunity also exists for employers to treat their employee base the same way that Walmart does in limiting the number of full-time employees via the allowable working hours and limiting benefits to only full-time employees.
 

Cliffy

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Well Capt.
You have no idea what I believe or don't believe and I was responding to coldstream's comments. I wasn't talking about religion but the self righteous. Is that what stuck in your craw?

Oh, and you forgot to mention cannibalism among West Coast tribes.
 

captain morgan

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Cliffy,

You've made it exceedingly clear what your beliefs are regarding anything related to the Vatican. That in itself is fine, however, perpetuating lies specifically intended to incite hatred in this case earns you the same identity as any run-of-the-mill bigot that gets off on slandering blacks or Jews.

As far as this remarkable comment: I wasn't talking about religion but the self righteous. Think about re-reading your post and then get back to me on the aforementioned comment.

You sure speak freely about acceptance and education of select identifiable cultures, but all that benefit is wiped-out the very moment that you post contemptuous lies targeted at those cultures/groups you deem unworthy.
 

coldstream

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There is only one thing to say to religious bigots: "We can measure the damage done by rapists and murderers, but we have no way to assess the damage done by the self righteous." - Allan Watts

The most self righteous people in our society now those who have alligned themselves with the precepts of moral relativism and radical individualism, the fundamental character of modern, liberal thought which has gained complete ascendance in our society over the last 40 years.

They have turned themselves into a secular belief system that is as bigoted and prejudiced as any Church ever was and as zealous in persecuting those who do not submit to their code. It has overturned a moral system that has existed since the start of the Western Civilization, and in fact represents a paradigm that is revolutionary and anti thetical to Christian and Western thought and values. Where this will take us is unknown, but it will be far from the utopia of free thought and action that its sophistry proclaims. It will lead to a tyranny.

At the end of the Roman Empire, homosexuality was common and accepted. The empire eventually morphed into the Roman Catholic Church. Could this account for the penchant for some priests boinking little boys and why their senior staff run around in crimson dresses? In case you are a fundie, just remember that it was Constantine who gave us the Catholic church and the bible.

Well that's right. Homosexuality, atleast in a legitimate and celebrated form, is a known symptom of civilizations and institutions that have been corrupted, are in imminent decline, and have lost all sense of right or wrong, up and down, good and evil.

The prime directive becomes one of sensual gratification and morbid self absorption. The Catholic Church to which i ascribe to has in fact been infected this same dissolution, invaded many feel, in a concerted attack on its integrity and in its priesthood.

That does not mean that its fundamental teaching authority and revelation in lessened, or are less True. It's attitudes to homosexuality and marriage are well known and have never been compromised. It just means material elements of it have been contaminated by its necessary openness to the society to which is pastors. Chaos and Darkness will always attempt to subvert, by any means, that which aspires to Truth and Light.

As for your comments that the Roman Empire morphed into the RCC, i'd say check your history. The Roman Empire was prime persecutor of Christianity. Western Civilization, of which the universal Church, in its undivided form, was formative, in fact grew from the ashes of a pagan civilization which completely collapsed by the 5th Cent. A.D... overrun by rapacious tribes. The world remained in the Dark Ages for hundreds of years before anything resembling civilization re-ermerged.
 
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L Gilbert

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It has nothing to do with whom an employer chooses to hire (discrimination against gays in hiring is already against the law). The underlying motive is to provide an excuse for people to remain against gay marriage becoming legal even if they have no strong moral objections. SSM is the issue, not hiring practices.
There are lots of ways to get around the discrimination laws in hiring people. You think that employers still don't hire family, friends, & favored people over the able stranger? Anyway, the motive was probably to cause bias against gays. And as they were comments about employees of businesses, the bias was pointed at gay employees.
 

L Gilbert

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.... It will lead to tyranny of some sort.
Perhaps. Perhaps, though, it will lead to a wiser society. 1 guess is as good as another.

Well that's right. Homosexuality, atleast in a legitimate and celebrated form, is a known symptom of civilizations and institutions that have been corrupted, are in imminent decline, and have lost all sense of right or wrong, up and down, good and evil.
Then life itself is a symptom.:roll:

The prime directive becomes one of sensual gratification and morbid self absorption. The Catholic Church to which i ascribe to has in fact been infected this same dissolution, invaded many feel, in a concerted attack on its integrity and in its priesthood.

That does not mean that its fundamental teaching authority and revelation in lessened, or are less True. It's attitudes to homosexuality and marriage are well known and have never been compromised. It just means material elements of it have been infected by its necessary openness to the society to which is pastors. Chaos and Darkness will always attempt to subvert, by any means, that which aspires to Truth and Light..........
Most religions intent is to attempt to warp people into some unrealistic, idyllic model. Sorry, it's stupid and unwise. It is human nature to follow human nature. Get over it and move on.
 

tracy

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There are lots of ways to get around the discrimination laws in hiring people. You think that employers still don't hire family, friends, & favored people over the able stranger? Anyway, the motive was probably to cause bias against gays. And as they were comments about employees of businesses, the bias was pointed at gay employees.

The bias will only exist IF gay marriage becomes legal. Until then, what the \rnc chairman said actually makes it obvious to business owners that they can save money by hiring gays.
 

Francis2004

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The bias will only exist IF gay marriage becomes legal. Until then, what the \rnc chairman said actually makes it obvious to business owners that they can save money by hiring gays.

Hummm.. In at least 3 States it is legal.. The point is they want to reverse it and stop it.. By fear they feel they will reverse it further such as in California and so on.. That is the point of using such tactics..

Same-sex marriage, also referred to as gay marriage, is a marriage between two persons of the same sex. Currently the federal government of the United States does not recognize same-sex marriage, under the Defense of Marriage Act, but same-sex marriage is currently legal in three states: Massachusetts, Connecticut, and Iowa, and will be legal in Vermont on September 1, 2009, and in Maine on September 14, 2009.

Same-sex marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

taxslave

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Currently gays are cheaper to hire. Hiring gays would not add an expense, hiring married people adds expense.
This whole discussion makes no sense. Health costs for a couple would be the same regardless of sex. The only difference would be that by definition gay couples can not have kids so in the end would actually be cheaper. However to fanatics a lie is as good as the truth as long as you can get someone to believe it.
 

tracy

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This whole discussion makes no sense. Health costs for a couple would be the same regardless of sex..

Exactly and currently employers in almost all states only have to provide coverage to MARRIED couples. That means that currently gay spouses don't cost employers benefit money since they can't be married.

The only difference would be that by definition gay couples can not have kids so in the end would actually be cheaper. However to fanatics a lie is as good as the truth as long as you can get someone to believe it.

Gay couples have kids too. For lesbians it's a pretty simple thing, but even gay men can adopt or use surrogates.
 

tracy

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My bet's still on the idea that it has nothing to do with money, and lots to do with bigotry.

I agree the heart of the issue is bigotry. It just doesn't make the RNC chairman's statement any less true. My hope is one day gay marriage here will be just like gay marriage in Canada: not a big deal. Why people spend so much time trying to keep gays from getting access to something they feel they own is beyond me.