Right Wing Bigotry From Alberta

[Walrus]

Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

I was around when Reform was just forming, Walrus...back when it wasn't even a party, just a bunch of "grassroots" meetings sponsored by people like the Byfields. I noticed the racism, religious bigotry, homophobia, xenophobia and general intolerance back then. When I watch thing like the Conservative Party Convention I see the same faces that were up on stage screaming hate into microphones back then. They are the guys running the party now.

When I hear one of these so-called "fringe" elements spouting off I don't think "fringe", I think that he hasn't paid attention to the memos telling him to watch what he says. That tends to be backed up when I talk to Reform/Alliance/Conservatives in person.

They are full of hate. They like the idea of racial and religious profiling, they want to make same sex marriage illegal, they want to take treaty rights away from natives. The list goes on and on. The leadership couch things in politically correct terms now, but the faces are the same and the policies are the same.

I think the Progressive Conservatives were a valuable part of the political landscape. I never liked them, but they were a political party with acceptable political ideas that I didn't agree with. Reform/Alliance never was and after the hostile takeover of the PC party it became clear that they never would be.

Watching the convention this month just confirmed that for me. Another new name, but it's the same old party.

You want to be conservative, that's fine. You have the choice of joining the PCs (Progressive Canadians) or even getting behind whatever David Orchard does. For that matter you can even join Paul Martin's Liberals...they are pretty much what the PCs used to be. That will allow you not to be lumped in with the Conservatives.

I know those seem like little upstart parties, and the Liberals are distasteful, but as long as the Reform/Alliance controls the Conservatives that undercurrent of bigotry remains. As such they are unelectable anyway, so you might stand a better chance in a friendlier party.

I haven't caught up with the rest of the thread yet, so forgive me if I am butting in at this point because I want to respond to this post first :wink:

I was also at some of the first meetings of the Reform Party and I can say that what you saw and what I saw don't seem to jibe - this might be because of our own personal beliefs or it might be that the part of the Reform Party that you saw was substantially different than what I saw (I suspect the latter case is more likely). The 'grassroots meetings' that I saw were a lot of Western PC's who were unhappy with the way that the Ontario PC's were steering the party. Sure, it grew up as a Western protest party but if you look back in history its origins were no different than those of the Progressive Party in the 30's. At that time the Conservatives performed a 'hostile takeover' of the Progressives and silenced the Western protest movement for 60 years. Right now (after the Conservative convention) I see the same thing happening with certain reasonable 'grassroots' proposals (like the recall of MP's)being voted out by the majority who are trying to appease the Ontario and Quebec wings. Certainly there are 'fringe' proposals coming (like getting rid of bilingualism), but if you look at the PC's before them those proposals were coming at almost every convention - from the same people - and they are still being voted down.

I must admit that I am not entirely happy with the Conservative's present agenda, but I am also always concerned with the corruption that is rampant throughout the Liberals and the total naive outlook and lack of fiscal rsponsibility among the NDP. At present, I am more likely to vote based on what my MP's values are rather than what the party he/she represents stands for.

 

[mrmom2]

I feel the same way I'm going to vote for the candidate who I feel will do the best job for me and my riding.Not along party lines

 

[Walrus]

Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry From Alberta

I feel the same way I'm going to vote for the candidate who I feel will do the best job for me and my riding.Not along party lines

Kind of a side note, but I believe that in the last election a poll was conducted which showed that 60% of the voters were voting that way - probably the reason we ended up with a minority :wink:

 

[Aizlynne]

Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry From Alberta

two things:

1) left or right, everyone in this thread disgusts me on a primal level purely based on your intolerance of the opposition simply because they are your opposition.

2) there are no cowboys in calgary; there aren't even calgarians in calgary. less than 10% of the population of this city was born here, and less than 50% born in alberta.

I live in Calgary and can attest to that. In fact, I spent most of my years in Ottawa so get off the "ooohhh their all bigots and rednecks in Alberta". I would say that in fact the # of actual Albertans is probably around 20%. So what does that mean... that all of the Easterners who moved West are rednecks??

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, unless it doesn't agree with some folks on this forum by the looks of things. First thing they do is scream "look at the bigot because they think differently".

You know the standards of a society have diminshed when people approve of unethical behaviour because of their own self serving interests. Perhaps these folks would like to pay my tax bill cause quite frankly I am not up for being pillaged financially because someone wants legalized anal fornication rights.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Anal fornication is already legal, Aizlynne. The debate is about whether gays are equal to heterosexuals under the charter.

By the way, heterosexuals practice anal sex too.

 

[Aizlynne]

Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Anal fornication is already legal, Aizlynne. The debate is about whether gays are equal to heterosexuals under the charter.

By the way, heterosexuals practice anal sex too.

But I haven't seen any of them on parade.... that was my point.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Go to a bar where the kids hang out...they're on parade every night. ;-)

 

[no1important]

RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

I hate to admit this and I am ashamed to but I did join the Reform party (and was a card carrying member briefly) when Preston Manning first started Reeeee-form.

That was until I went to a local candidate nomination meeting, and heard the truth. Some of the clowns speaking made the KKK look like angels. I could not believe it. Tolerance and equality was not in their vocabulary. It was (and I am dead serious) scarey some of the things people said. Everything from immigration, reverse discrimmination to bringing back hanging. It was an eye opener to say the least.

I do not belong officially to any party but I do help free thinking candidates, like myself out.

BTW the only way same sex marriage will not be legal is if Ottawa uses notwithstanding clause. If it fails to pass before this government falls the SCOC will make it law, including Alberta.

Actually as soon as a same-sex couple in Alberta take it to court after being denied a marriage license it will be law there.

 

[Aizlynne]

Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry Fr

Go to a bar where the kids hang out...they're on parade every night. ;-)

You don't go to most bars in Calgary unless you are prepared to be stabbed .... lol

Seriously, I don't have a problem with anyone wanting to find some joy in life but for goodness sakes, gays are a minority group. That's why the majority of people, who are still Christian based spiritualists believe in the original purpose of the religious ceremony called marriage. That doesn't make them bigots, it makes them the majority... that's all.

No one has the right to discrimate against any disabled person whether that be from a neurological disorder or a physical disorder.

Most of the people I speak with who "oppose" same sex marriage is not because they don't recognize that disabled people are entitled to the same benefits, they just disagree with them wanting to be married, because marriage is, from their persepctive, a Christian based ceremony. If these folks follow their Christian beliefs, they cannot support marriage between two males or females because it is counter to what their Christian teachings support.

I understand both sides but honestly, I see more hate being spewed by advocates of homosexuality and it actually makes them look more like bigots. There is nothing wrong with respecting a Christian for their beliefs, even if they go against yours.

 

[Reverend Blair]

That was until I went to a local candidate nomination meeting, and heard the truth. Some of the clowns speaking made the KKK look like angels. I could not believe it. Tolerance and equality was not in their vocabulary. It was (and I am dead serious) scarey some of the things people said. Everything from immigration, reverse discrimmination to bringing back hanging. It was an eye opener to say the least.

For me it was an eye-closer...literally. It was likely close to your experience, No1. We went to a meeting (Reform wasn't a party yet, this was just getting rolling) and my friend objected (rather loudly) to the racism. They kicked the sh*t out of us. My eye swelled shut.

I see those same faces when I watch the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives on TV. They are the backroom boys now, but they all showed up at the convention.

You don't go to most bars in Calgary unless you are prepared to be stabbed .... lol

And people say things have changed. :wink:

Seriously, I don't have a problem with anyone wanting to find some joy in life but for goodness sakes, gays are a minority group. That's why the majority of people, who are still Christian based spiritualists believe in the original purpose of the religious ceremony called marriage. That doesn't make them bigots, it makes them the majority... that's all.

Religion and marriage have nothing to do with one another, Ayz. Gays are a minority group and they deserve the protection of the Charter as a result. The majority of people are not Christian-based spiritualists...the majority of people are people with a vagur connection to a Christian church. If they aren't willing to grant equal rights to a minority group, then they are bigots. End of story.

 

[badboy]

That was until I went to a local candidate nomination meeting, and heard the truth. Some of the clowns speaking made the KKK look like angels. I could not believe it. Tolerance and equality was not in their vocabulary. It was (and I am dead serious) scarey some of the things people said. Everything from immigration, reverse discrimmination to bringing back hanging. It was an eye opener to say the least.

For me it was an eye-closer...literally. It was likely close to your experience, No1. We went to a meeting (Reform wasn't a party yet, this was just getting rolling) and my friend objected (rather loudly) to the racism. They kicked the sh*t out of us. My eye swelled shut.

I see those same faces when I watch the Reform/Alliance/Conservatives on TV. They are the backroom boys now, but they all showed up at the convention.

You don't go to most bars in Calgary unless you are prepared to be stabbed .... lol

And people say things have changed. :wink:

Seriously, I don't have a problem with anyone wanting to find some joy in life but for goodness sakes, gays are a minority group. That's why the majority of people, who are still Christian based spiritualists believe in the original purpose of the religious ceremony called marriage. That doesn't make them bigots, it makes them the majority... that's all.

Religion and marriage have nothing to do with one another, Ayz. Gays are a minority group and they deserve the protection of the Charter as a result. The majority of people are not Christian-based spiritualists...the majority of people are people with a vagur connection to a Christian church. If they aren't willing to grant equal rights to a minority group, then they are bigots. End of story.

Thats your take on it, thats it.

If you want to be PM or a MP please run, but what you say is not law. maybe on this board but not in Canada.

Murderers are minority group lets make that legal too.
Polygamists are minority group lets make that legal too.

Funny you’re an atheist and a socialist, why are you living in Canada, why not move to Europe where you will have more people that will listen to you and not question your gospel.

and why Reverend Blair ? thats not fitting of a (man) of your mindset.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Murderers are minority group lets make that legal too.Polygamists are minority group lets make that legal too.

You appear bereft of reason, so I'll keep this simple...

- Murder is against the law
- Polygamy is against the law
- Homosexuality is not against the law

See the difference?

and why Reverend Blair ? thats not fitting of a (man) of your mindset.

Perhaps because he's an ordained minister :idea:

 

[badboy]

Murderers are minority group lets make that legal too.Polygamists are minority group lets make that legal too.

You appear bereft of reason, so I'll keep this simple...

- Murder is against the law
- Polygamy is against the law
- Homosexuality is not against the law

See the difference?

and why Reverend Blair ? thats not fitting of a (man) of your mindset.

Perhaps because he's an ordained minister :idea:

In what faith NONE

 

[Vanni Fucci]

and why Reverend Blair ? thats not fitting of a (man) of your mindset.

Perhaps because he's an ordained minister :idea:

In what faith NONE

Do you know that for a fact badboy...no of course you don't, you just continue to spout off over things you know nothing about...

Typical... :roll:

 

[badboy]

and why Reverend Blair ? thats not fitting of a (man) of your mindset.

Perhaps because he's an ordained minister :idea:

In what faith NONE

Do you know that for a fact badboy...no of course you don't, you just continue to spout off over things you know nothing about...

Typical... :roll:

No you are to correct me, now what faith ?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

and why Reverend Blair ? thats not fitting of a (man) of your mindset.

Perhaps because he's an ordained minister :idea:

In what faith NONE

Do you know that for a fact badboy...no of course you don't, you just continue to spout off over things you know nothing about...

Typical... :roll:

No you are to correct me, now what faith ?

Pssst...you'll have to ask the Rev. I have my suspicions, but it's really up to you to ask him, and him to tell you, if that is what he wishes...

 

[Aizlynne]

Hi Rev:

But gays do have equal rights... I don't understand? Don't you have the right to benefit plans, pensions, etc. just like any other common law relationship?

If this the case, then why take a Christian based ceremony - marriage - and try and make it not Christian? If there are churches that will recognize your civil union that's great. .. but why call it marriage?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry From Alberta

Hi Rev:

But gays do have equal rights... I don't understand? Don't you have the right to benefit plans, pensions, etc. just like any other common law relationship?

If this the case, then why take a Christian based ceremony - marriage - and try and make it not Christian? If there are churches that will recognize your civil union that's great. .. but why call it marriage?

I don't know if you know this, being from Calgary and all, but there are homosexual Christians as well as hetero ones... :wink:

 

[Aizlynne]

Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry From Alberta

Hi Rev:

But gays do have equal rights... I don't understand? Don't you have the right to benefit plans, pensions, etc. just like any other common law relationship?

If this the case, then why take a Christian based ceremony - marriage - and try and make it not Christian? If there are churches that will recognize your civil union that's great. .. but why call it marriage?

I don't know if you know this, being from Calgary and all, but there are homosexual Christians as well as hetero ones... :wink:

As much as you seem to take delight in using your verbiage to take pot shots at people I will answer this. You cannot be a practicing Christian and be a homosexual because it is against the Bible's teachings. I am not a Christian, and not even originally from Alberta, although I am sure you could care less. Your linear thinking doesn't allow you to see or hear anything other than what is in front of you. I just happen to take the time to listen to others who have differences of opinion without using pithy comments and bloviating in forums in order to push an agenda.

So since there is a definite dichotomy to the saying that there are Christian homosexuals. They are either lying or are not really aren't homosexual at all.

 

[Chake99]

Re: RE: Right Wing Bigotry From Alberta

Hi Rev:

But gays do have equal rights... I don't understand? Don't you have the right to benefit plans, pensions, etc. just like any other common law relationship?

If this the case, then why take a Christian based ceremony - marriage - and try and make it not Christian? If there are churches that will recognize your civil union that's great. .. but why call it marriage?

I don't know if you know this, being from Calgary and all, but there are homosexual Christians as well as hetero ones... :wink:

As much as you seem to take delight in using your verbiage to take pot shots at people I will answer this. You cannot be a practicing Christian and be a homosexual because it is against the Bible's teachings. I am not a Christian, and not even originally from Alberta, although I am sure you could care less. Your linear thinking doesn't allow you to see or hear anything other than what is in front of you. I just happen to take the time to listen to others who have differences of opinion without using pithy comments and bloviating in forums in order to push an agenda.

So since there is a definite dichotomy to the saying that there are Christian homosexuals. They are either lying or are not really aren't homosexual at all.

Homosexuality is labelled an abomination in the bible. Then again so is eating certain types of seafood. By your logic people who eat seafood cannot be christians?