Residential Schools....Are You Kidding me

[lone wolf]

Gambling was part of aboriginal culture long before the discovery of America. Further, tobacco is native to North and South America. Smoking of same is believed to have started around 3000 BC. Booze? That's a curse introduced to get furs for as little as possible - all in the name of profit.

Residential schools may have had good intentions in teaching First Nations people a new way - but they went about it in entirely the wrong way with the idea one could erase the culture and introduce your own - then entrust the process to they who think they are God.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

apparently I missed something in the news. If I'd known there were group sex stories, I'd have been all over that! lol. And she has a name Socrates. 'Yelling' that she's madam biker big tits chick is more than just a little bit rude and misogynistic.

Sorry Karrie I respect women every day of the year. I am not misogynistic Madam Julie Couillard has a history which is not a big deal to the Conservatives, but it is a big deal for the security of Canada. The madam loves to jump into beds like a flea. Both Conservative ministers love to roll around the bed sheets with a flea bag, while that doesn’t say much for their private life’s.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Gambling was part of aboriginal culture long before the discovery of America. Further, tobacco is native to North and South America. Smoking of same is believed to have started around 3000 BC. Booze? That's a curse introduced to get furs for as little as possible - all in the name of profit.

Residential schools may have had good intentions in teaching First Nations people a new way - but they went about it in entirely the wrong way with the idea one could erase the culture and introduce your own - then entrust the process to they who think they are God.

Isn’t that what Hitler wanted to do? Turn the human race into white, blond, and blue eyed.

 

[lone wolf]

Isn’t that what Hitler wanted to do? Turn the human race into white, blond, and blue eyed.

Sock.... You need help....

Woof!

 

[karrie]

Isn’t that what Hitler wanted to do? Turn the human race into white, blond, and blue eyed.

That's what Hitler wanted, but it's not the same thing. I'm sure you can grasp the difference between eradication and assimilation. Falling back on Hitler comparisons everytime anything racial comes up is weak. Note that I didn't compare you to Hitler for implying that natives are a different species, but I could have.

 

[Ariadne]

I am glad you make that point Ariadne;
If I am not mistaken the casinos were build by the provincial Governments while the feds say keep the profits coming. The casino became a pass time for many Indians on the reserve. We must never forget that the Native Indian was first given Alcohol to drink before water by the white man way back then. As for smoking cigarettes human beings around the globe for many years believed that smoking was like drinking tea. A habit that proved fatal for all users from all skin pigmentations.

I went to high school in this little town outside of Calgary. I remember mornings where I was re-routed after getting off the school bus because there was a deceased drunken aboriginal or first nations person on the sidewalk in front of the school doors. I remember going for lunch and seeing children in the car while their parents drank the afternoon away in the bar. The children were still in the car several hours later. People in the town would find sleeping first nation people in the backseat of their unlocked cars when they went to work in the morning. Now, we have a casino opening up just outside of Calgary ready to inject that fix that people need, to gamble and smoke, flipping the bird at the law. This is interesting, to say the least. I read about the secret cultural values of the first nation people, but hey, what are they ... what exactly are we preserving ... cuz when I look at action rather than words, I see casinos that don't have to adhere to the laws of the province - and they prey on addictions; sucking money out of people that can usually least afford it.

If that's the culture of first nation - addiction feeding establishments - are we really any further ahead? Are those first nations just fooling us again ... first they want alcohol for fur, and now they want casinos for "first nation spiritualism".

 

[Ariadne]

Isn’t that what Hitler wanted to do? Turn the human race into white, blond, and blue eyed.

Are these the same old tired Catholic residential schools that we heard about before, or are there newly identified persons associated with the schools that are guilty of something? Is the fact that children were put in foster care a crime? If so, what conditions were they living in prior to being removed to foster care? If it's all about the spirituality of the first nation that these children lost, do we know that these values would have been learned had they not been removed? Should some of the blame be placed on the parents that were not providing safe, spiritually nurturing, and caring environments?

Are we to believe that children in first nation homes were being well fed, attending school on a daily basis, participating in extracurricular spiritual or music, sports, etc. activities, and still the government determined that they should be removed from their homes?

 

[gerryh]

Are these the same old tired Catholic residential schools that we heard about before, or are there newly identified persons associated with the schools that are guilty of something? Is the fact that children were put in foster care a crime? If so, what conditions were they living in prior to being removed to foster care? If it's all about the spirituality of the first nation that these children lost, do we know that these values would have been learned had they not been removed? Should some of the blame be placed on the parents that were not providing safe, spiritually nurturing, and caring environments?

Are we to believe that children in first nation homes were being well fed, attending school on a daily basis, participating in extracurricular spiritual or music, sports, etc. activities, and still the government determined that they should be removed from their homes?

You don't have a clue, do you?:roll:

 

[gerryh]

these kids were forcibly removed from there family's for no other reason than that they were Native. They weren't put into foster care, they were shipped off to residential schools where they were punished for speaking their own language. They were "required" to only speak english, convert to christianity, basically they were required to become "white".

 

[lone wolf]

Are these the same old tired Catholic residential schools that we heard about before, or are there newly identified persons associated with the schools that are guilty of something? Is the fact that children were put in foster care a crime? If so, what conditions were they living in prior to being removed to foster care? If it's all about the spirituality of the first nation that these children lost, do we know that these values would have been learned had they not been removed? Should some of the blame be placed on the parents that were not providing safe, spiritually nurturing, and caring environments?

Are we to believe that children in first nation homes were being well fed, attending school on a daily basis, participating in extracurricular spiritual or music, sports, etc. activities, and still the government determined that they should be removed from their homes?

Wow! What propaganda have you been taking as gospel? Foster care and residential schools have nothing in common. Kids were taken - by force in some cases - away from parents who knew the "old ways" and made to accept a completely alien way of being. Beating the knowledge into these "heathens" wan't something those old nuns, or anyone else in positions of power were afraid of doing. Kids were bullied into submission for any reason - including sexual. Many of those schools were Church of England or United so Catholics weren't alone in their deeds. Seems to me you have residential school and reform school confused.

 

[Ariadne]

You don't have a clue, do you?:roll:

I only know what I've seen, heard, and now with the casino, concluded.

The first nations can complain all they want about how their parents were going to teach them all sorts of cultural ideas, but in reality they were too busy getting drunk all day every day (and then buy a 48 pack on their way out the door) to retain custody of their children. If children were moved to foster homes, it was because there were concerns. If the consequence was that neglected children did not learn their parent's culture of bars all afternoon every day, so be it. If the youth of today have discovered that there used to be some culture, by all means they should embrace it ... but will money make that happen better? I doubt it. Culture can't be purchased ... but keep milking it, eh.

Let's look at how that money, whether for oil, land, foster home affliction, is being spent today. We have a great big old saloon complete with girls wearing meter long feathers on their heads ... just outside of Calgary ... and all reports indicate you do not have to adhere to the laws while in this establishment. If that's all the first nation people can come up with now that they have the spiritual money in their pockets ... I say enough is enough.

Do something spiritual for a change ... casino with a smoking license is a pathetic example of the results of those pleas for the lost spiritualism - and may I remind you that 'spiritualism' is the same argument that has been always used. Those that benefited financially in the past using that argument are not benefactors for first nation arts and culture, they are opening addiction feeding establishments.

 

[mabudon]

WOW I just don't know what to say to that

Like there were bars and casinos spotting the landscape in the 1st millennium or something- f-ing weird

 

[Ariadne]

these kids were forcibly removed from there family's for no other reason than that they were Native. They weren't put into foster care, they were shipped off to residential schools where they were punished for speaking their own language. They were "required" to only speak english, convert to christianity, basically they were required to become "white".

So where is the documentation supporting the argument that children were removed from native indian homes only because they were from native indian homes. Were these children attending school on a daily basis, was the response that there were no schools in their neighbourhood? Taht would sound like an invitation to assimilate. Seriously, were children on reserves abiding by the rules of the country, or did they think they could go to school when they felt like it. Why didn't the children attend school? Were their moms not out of bed? When schools were built on the reserve, did they attend?

Whatever the rules of the time were ... were the rules of the time. There was a time when children of another religion could have been eaten by lions, particularly if they had met the Romans, but that didn't happen. Children were provided 3 meals a day, roof over their head, education, medical care, vaccinations, and the basic needs of any child in Canada; a prosperous nation. Of course they had to speak English, as that was part of their education. New immigrants today are not allowed to speak foreign languages in class either. How is that a problem?

As for religious choices, that was the culture of Canada in the 1960s. So what. Even Japanese were expected to convert to Christianity. Guess what, todays politically correct open mindedness about religion ain't retroactive, or at least it shouldn't be.

What the heck is white? Being eductated? having medical care? having a roof over your head? working for a living? reaping what you sow or going hungry? not being allowed to smoke indoors? not building casinos in our backyards? not being free of cigarette taxes?

I mean really ... even first nation murderers are permitted their pow wow rather than face any kind of consequence or court of law - go, run in the field, find yourself, become a man - and then what, they're no longer murderers? Bull. First nations wanted autonomy, they got it and didn't get it right - no new cultural spiriuality. First nations want their own courts and got it, but did it help? Not yet.

Skip the words ... actions speak.

 

[gerryh]

I only know what I've seen, heard, and now with the casino, concluded.

The first nations can complain all they want about how their parents were going to teach them all sorts of cultural ideas, but in reality they were too busy getting drunk all day every day (and then buy a 48 pack on their way out the door) to retain custody of their children. If children were moved to foster homes, it was because there were concerns. If the consequence was that neglected children did not learn their parent's culture of bars all afternoon every day, so be it. If the youth of today have discovered that there used to be some culture, by all means they should embrace it ... but will money make that happen better? I doubt it. Culture can't be purchased ... but keep milking it, eh.

Let's look at how that money, whether for oil, land, foster home affliction, is being spent today. We have a great big old saloon complete with girls wearing meter long feathers on their heads ... just outside of Calgary ... and all reports indicate you do not have to adhere to the laws while in this establishment. If that's all the first nation people can come up with now that they have the spiritual money in their pockets ... I say enough is enough.

Do something spiritual for a change ... casino with a smoking license is a pathetic example of the results of those pleas for the lost spiritualism - and may I remind you that 'spiritualism' is the same argument that has been always used. Those that benefited financially in the past using that argument are not benefactors for first nation arts and culture, they are opening addiction feeding establishments.

Only one thing to say....your a f*cking idiot!!!!!!!!

 

[Ariadne]

Wow! What propaganda have you been taking as gospel? Foster care and residential schools have nothing in common. Kids were taken - by force in some cases - away from parents who knew the "old ways" and made to accept a completely alien way of being. Beating the knowledge into these "heathens" wan't something those old nuns, or anyone else in positions of power were afraid of doing. Kids were bullied into submission for any reason - including sexual. Many of those schools were Church of England or United so Catholics weren't alone in their deeds. Seems to me you have residential school and reform school confused.

That propaganda of my teenage years just outside of Calgary, watching how the first nation managed their lives ... that's what I'm taking as gospel.

Children were put into foster care, including public care and private home. The fact that children from reserves were put into private schools (those are fancy, by the way) means they were too old to place in private care - that's life when your parents don't provide for you. Children that are placed in foster care are typically taken by force, as parents and children are upset. The reasons for children being taken away from parents are obvious now and in the 1960s.

You suggest that parents knew the old ways ... but were they were sending children to school, providing medical care, working for a living, and contributing to society while knowing the old ways? I don't think so. If they spent even an hour every day instilling cultural values in a 4 year old, it would still be known today ... so why isn't it?

If it's the catholic school thing - in reference to your nuns comment - that was settled years ago - so what propaganda are you reading?

What are the names of these brutal teachers that children encountered in private schools? The ones that ensured that they could function in society, speak the language, have an education, read books, have medical care? Who were these terrible people that we should be prosecuting?

 

[Ariadne]

WOW I just don't know what to say to that

Like there were bars and casinos spotting the landscape in the 1st millennium or something- f-ing weird

I think it's kind of weird that the argument is always for spiritual/cultural preservation, but when it comes down to spending the money, it's on fast cars, alcohol, and now a casino to damage and destroy the facade and reputation of the Rocky Mountains between Calgary to Banff.

 

[Ariadne]

Only one thing to say....your a f*cking idiot!!!!!!!!

I actually not a f-ing idiot. I am exceptionally well educated, and I speak my mind. I'm sorry that you are not able to view this topic from any perspective other than that of bleeding heart, but that's life, eh.

 

[lone wolf]

That propaganda of my teenage years just outside of Calgary, watching how the first nation managed their lives ... that's what I'm taking as gospel.

Children were put into foster care, including public care and private home. The fact that children from reserves were put into private schools (those are fancy, by the way) means they were too old to place in private care - that's life when your parents don't provide for you. Children that are placed in foster care are typically taken by force, as parents and children are upset. The reasons for children being taken away from parents are obvious now and in the 1960s.

You suggest that parents knew the old ways ... but were they were sending children to school, providing medical care, working for a living, and contributing to society while knowing the old ways? I don't think so. If they spent even an hour every day instilling cultural values in a 4 year old, it would still be known today ... so why isn't it?

If it's the catholic school thing - in reference to your nuns comment - that was settled years ago - so what propaganda are you reading?

What are the names of these brutal teachers that children encountered in private schools? The ones that ensured that they could function in society, speak the language, have an education, read books, have medical care? Who were these terrible people that we should be prosecuting?

Ger's right.... You really don't have a clue. Time did not start the day you graced Earth with your presence. Residential school is NOT private school. You're letting bigotry block you from the real world and seeing just as you want.

 

[lone wolf]

Start your education process here:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/05/16/f-faqs-residential-schools.html

Google has a whole wealth of enlightenment for you

 

[karrie]

I actually not a f-ing idiot. I am exceptionally well educated, and I speak my mind. I'm sorry that you are not able to view this topic from any perspective other than that of bleeding heart, but that's life, eh.

You are proving HIGHLY uneducated on what exactly the residential school debacle is about. That you could ignore the current apologies by both Harper and Dion, for the actions of our governments in taking children away to essentially lock them up in residential schools, and demand 'proof', is evidence of that. This is not about the foster system. This is not about casinos. This is about the past.