Residential Schools....Are You Kidding me

[Risus]

In 1867 the Conservatives under Sir John A Macdonald thought it was a great idea in giving Native Indians alcohol in the exchange of land. They were the first Government who started the exploitation. The Introduction to alcohol drinking was the openings of the barn doors as youy know, and then came the sexual abuse, being that a drunken person will agree to almost anything. The sniffing glue was chosen as an alternative to a quick high being that the glue can be bought in hardware stores which made it legal for anyone to walk into a hardware store and purchase glue. I am sure you know that the Native Indian in North America has been robed blind.

A couple of facts obtained by an internet search: Alcohol was used as an exchange for fur, etc as early as 1684 (The Hudson's Bay Company). It wasn't good old John A who introduced booze to the natives. Glue sniffing didn't start showing up until the late 1940s.

I agree that natives got a poor deal from some of the treaties, but the natives went along with them and signed them, so all the blame cannot be placed on the white man. They weren't robbed blind...

 

[lone wolf]

Good Lord ... You two need your tails tied together and to be tossed over the clothesline.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

A couple of facts obtained by an internet search: Alcohol was used as an exchange for fur, etc as early as 1684 (The Hudson's Bay Company). It wasn't good old John A who introduced booze to the natives. Glue sniffing didn't start showing up until the late 1940s.

I agree that natives got a poor deal from some of the treaties, but the natives went along with them and signed them, so all the blame cannot be placed on the white man. They weren't robbed blind...

Rissus, alcohol was introduced to the Natives way back before John A. M. was born, but during his time in office the natives were still on a long drunk from the past which at the time created a big problem for the Natives while it presented a unique opportunity of exploitation by the white man and at the time the Cons were the exploiter. As you say glue came latter.

 

[lone wolf]

John A was a drunk.... Soc ... you have a really unique view of Canadian history. Have you ever studied it?

 

[Risus]

Rissus, alcohol was introduced to the Natives way back before John A. M. was born, but during his time in office the natives were still on a long drunk from the past which at the time created a big problem for the Natives while it presented a unique opportunity of exploitation by the white man and at the time the Cons were the exploiter. As you say glue came latter.

Man you flipflop like the liberals. First you said John A "thought it was a great idea in giving Native Indians alcohol in the exchange of land. They were the first Government who started the exploitation. The Introduction to alcohol drinking was the openings of the barn doors" Now you are admitting the alcohol abuse was 'way back before John A", but somehow its still the conservatives and John A's fault anyway. I can't figure out your logic (or actually lack thereof) on that one... Your one track mind is getting bogged down.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Man you flipflop like the liberals. First you said John A "thought it was a great idea in giving Native Indians alcohol in the exchange of land. They were the first Government who started the exploitation. The Introduction to alcohol drinking was the openings of the barn doors" Now you are admitting the alcohol abuse was 'way back before John A", but somehow its still the conservatives and John A's fault anyway. I can't figure out your logic (or actually lack thereof) on that one... Your one track mind is getting bogged down.

Hey Rissus lets ether debate of we are wasting our time here. I don’t flip flop,

First off I have posted here that the French and the Brits were the first settlers on the North American continent who screwed the Native Indian , then, the first Canadian government after the Native Indian was screwed by was the Conservatives under John A. M. Now don’t you think that in 1867 the CONS in exchange of land gave the Natives alcohol tobacco and fur? My logic Risus is all there my good pal, the problem you have is me associating the snow whites to wrong. But I do understand how you feel.

 

[Risus]

Hey Rissus lets ether debate of we are wasting our time here. I don’t flip flop,

First off I have posted here that the French and the Brits were the first settlers on the North American continent who screwed the Native Indian , then, the first Canadian government after the Native Indian was screwed by was the Conservatives under John A. M. Now don’t you think that in 1867 the CONS in exchange of land gave the Natives alcohol tobacco and fur? My logic Risus is all there my good pal, the problem you have is me associating the snow whites to wrong. But I do understand how you feel.

Well I know for a fact that the authorities didn't give fur to the natives, since the natives were trading fur to the whiteman. From what I've read about the treaties at that time, items given to the natives were for agriculture, ammunition and materials for hunting and fishing. There is NO mention of alcohol or tobacco in the archives. So the answer to your question 'don't I think that in 1867 ther Cons gave alcohol, tobacco and fur to the natives in exchange for land' is NO.

 

[lone wolf]

Well I know for a fact that the authorities didn't give fur to the natives, since the natives were trading fur to the whiteman. From what I've read about the treaties at that time, items given to the natives were for agriculture, ammunition and materials for hunting and fishing. There is NO mention of alcohol or tobacco in the archives. So the answer to your question 'don't I think that in 1867 ther Cons gave alcohol, tobacco and fur to the natives in exchange for land' is NO.

Officially, HBCo or NWCo bartered goods - in the conventional manner of course - for furs and pelts. Those short black strips on a Hudson Bay blanket are actually a price tag - its worth in beaver pelts. No doubt there were the shadier middlemen and backroom deals. If there happened to be a constable about (and Indians were wise enough to know where they were) the trade was dry and relatively honest. Now, out of that constable's sight was another matter and the guys without scruples took full advantage. Tobacco wasn't an issue considering tobacco was known (and sacred) to North American aboriginals centuries before the coming of Europeans.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Well I know for a fact that the authorities didn't give fur to the natives, since the natives were trading fur to the whiteman. From what I've read about the treaties at that time, items given to the natives were for agriculture, ammunition and materials for hunting and fishing. There is NO mention of alcohol or tobacco in the archives. So the answer to your question 'don't I think that in 1867 ther Cons gave alcohol, tobacco and fur to the natives in exchange for land' is NO.

Good day to you Risus, as for the alcohol part, it is on record that the Native Indian of North America new nothing about Whisky until when the white man arrived. As to how trade took place, the white man settled on the North American land and took the liberty upon him self behind closed doors and figured out the strategy on how he could appease the Native Indian, and alcohol was the most affective way in order to get in the door.
Of course not all Indians agreed and the wars started between the Natives and the White man, (remember cowboys and Indians the movies we used to watch?
The ticked in the beginning was Whisky to help get in the North American door, while the exploitation became very evident.

 

[lone wolf]

Good day to you Risus, as for the alcohol part, it is on record that the Native Indian of North America new nothing about Whisky until when the white man arrived. As to how trade took place, the white man settled on the North American land and took the liberty upon him self behind closed doors and figured out the strategy on how he could appease the Native Indian, and alcohol was the most affective way in order to get in the door.
Of course not all Indians agreed and the wars started between the Natives and the White man, (remember cowboys and Indians the movies we used to watch?
The ticked in the beginning was Whisky to help get in the North American door, while the exploitation became very evident.

Interesting theories.... So did the Indians use Air miles or trade in the empties for guns and bullets, pots and pans, blankets and beads? Is there a link or ISBN to your research materials?

 

[karrie]

Interesting theories.... So did the Indians use Air miles or trade in the empties for guns and bullets, pots and pans, blankets and beads? Is there a link or ISBN to your research materials?

I've been tempted to start a new thread for this.

We now know a lot about the enzymes lacking in native americans that contribute to quicker intoxication, etc. But, did early settlers know what alcohol would do to them? Did they know that something they traded freely amongst themselves, used freely amongst themselves, would be so detrimental in the long term to the native people?

And what was the alternative? Banning them from touching alcohol? Handholding and patronizing? Is that better somehow?

"Yes, I know we're allowed to drink alcohol, but you're not."

 

[lone wolf]

I've been tempted to start a new thread for this.

We now know a lot about the enzymes lacking in native americans that contribute to quicker intoxication, etc. But, did early settlers know what alcohol would do to them? Did they know that something they traded freely amongst themselves, used freely amongst themselves, would be so detrimental in the long term to the native people?

And what was the alternative? Banning them from touching alcohol? Handholding and patronizing? Is that better somehow?

"Yes, I know we're allowed to drink alcohol, but you're not."

Really, it's a fact that Indians process alcohol differently than do people of European descent. Is it possible that Europeans have evolved to imbibe? I'd be interested in seeing research whether it's the alcohol or the grain? I know corn liquor throws most Europeans for a loop. Wheat is just as unnatural to North America as maize (corn) is to Europe.

I do recall Indian lists at the old LCBO - a "don't sell" list on which not only Native names were recorded. There must be a root to that too....

 

[Zzarchov]

Actually the number one thing "White" men gave Natives is mercanaries.


Like all nations and peoples, there was heavy fighting and feuds slipping back millenia. So the "Whites" (really no such concept of people existed, a Frenchman saw himself as different from an Englishman as a Haudenosaunee).

There was no doubt rampant alcoholism among the Natives, big deal. There was rampant alcoholism among "whites" too.


Natives lost out for 2 reasons:

1.) They didn't have large scale domestication so they were prey to western diseases, without having their own diseases that slew colonials (as was the case in Africa).

2.) Their own bloodfeuds kept them fighting each other, with no single Native nation gaining enough hegemony to control the region ( as in Europe, rival ethnic groups eventually fell to a regional leader, such as the British isles)


Natives were not stupid, they knew their was a war going on, war and colonialism was as much as part of Native diplomacy and tactics as European (and Andean, and Mesoamerican, and African and Arabian and Central Asian and Far Eastern)

Looking at the wars fought between native nations (including prior to European landings) its easy to notice their rises and falls were the same ones found by all peoples in human history.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

I've been tempted to start a new thread for this.

We now know a lot about the enzymes lacking in native americans that contribute to quicker intoxication, etc. But, did early settlers know what alcohol would do to them? Did they know that something they traded freely amongst themselves, used freely amongst themselves, would be so detrimental in the long term to the native people?

And what was the alternative? Banning them from touching alcohol? Handholding and patronizing? Is that better somehow?

"Yes, I know we're allowed to drink alcohol, but you're not."

The truth is also that the Native Indian new nothing about human rights, in many cases they were kept purposely drunk while taking advantage of them became easier....
Especially many of the youth got introduced to glue as we all know, and they were in some cases sexually unsalted.

 

[lone wolf]

Oh gosh no.... Unsalted sex? How did they spice it up?

It's really easy to take advantage of someone who's become artificially superhuman. You forgot about smallpox-infected blankets and killing off the buffalo herds ... but unsalted? Yeesh!

 

[Socrates the Greek]

Oh gosh no.... Unsalted sex? How did they spice it up?

It's really easy to take advantage of someone who's become artificially superhuman. You forgot about smallpox-infected blankets and killing off the buffalo herds ... but unsalted? Yeesh!

kkkkkkk assaulted
Haven’t you ever made any spelling mistakes?

 

[karrie]

lol... that's perfect wolf. Good catch. Sorry Soc, but, the funny mistakes like that HAVE to be run with. You can't just leave a gem like that buried.

 

[Socrates the Greek]

lol... that's perfect wolf. Good catch. Sorry Soc, but, the funny mistakes like that HAVE to be run with. You can't just leave a gem like that buried.

ha hahha, Karrie as long as we all get along here, from all political stripes

 

[lone wolf]

No offence, Soc. I volunteer with Literacy Outreach. Spelling mistakes are peanuts because the message is getting out. A jewel like that? C'mon.... You see a can on the sidewalk, admit it.... You're gonna kick it.....

 

[Risus]

Soc, u gotta get a distionary....