RCMP's report on the long-gun registry

[Colpy]

Can you name any Official system which an officer can simply access to find crimes? My understanding, rudimentary as it is, is that police officers use systems to solve crimes after the fact.

I mean they've investigated psychics, but that didn't pan out. The spoon bending required two pairs of pliers...

Once again, let's go through all the requirements for the registry to help solve a crime....

1. The criminal would have to use a gun registered to himself. Silly, as half the guns out there are not registered, and are easily available..

2. The criminal would have to leave the firearm at the scene of the crime.

okay, so we have already established that this boy ain't too bright.....they probably already caught him....

3. The firearms would have to be registered absolutely correctly, and would be retrievable from the system....not AT ALL a certain thing, as a huge percentage of the registrations are in error........and many guns share the same serial number.

Beginning to get the point here? The registry has not solved a single crime.....had it done so, the CACP would be singing out the example....and they CAN'T.

The damn thing is completely useless.

Crime Statistics

• There are nearly 7 million registered long-guns in Canada. Yet of 2,441 homicides recorded in Canada since mandatory long-gun registration was introduced in 2003, fewer than 2 percent (47) were committed with rifles and shotguns known to have been registered. (Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics).
• Illegal smuggling by organized crime is by far the principal source of firearms on our streets. Indeed, the Vancouver police report that 97 percent of firearms seized in 2003 were illegal guns smuggled in from the United States, usually by organized crime (Vancouver Police, Strategic Plan 2004-08).

http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/media/nr/2007/nr20071116-2-eng.aspx

 

[Omicron]

the point to the gun registry is to combat the tremendous wave of rural crime which is putting our police officers at risk.

It's *not* a tremendous wave.

Who do you work for? Herst Publishing?

 

[Colpy]

It's *not* a tremendous wave.

Who do you work for? Herst Publishing?

Tongue firmly in cheek Omicron....

You're too short.... lol

 

[Bar Sinister]

Okay. Once again. The registry CAN NOT tell an officer what guns are in a specific house EVEN IF they are all legal.

I might have a firearms license, with no guns registered to me, yet have a houseful of borrowed weapons registered to some OTHER person at some OTHER address....perfectly legal.

The sensible thing, if one is going to an address, would be to inquire if the owner holds a license........registration is not necessary.

Anti-gun police LOVE the registration system because when the time comes that they actually get to seize our long guns, the registry tells them where about half of them are.....

AND that is why gun owners HATE it.....they understand perfectly well that the only use for it is the confiscation of guns......which has happened in Canada repeatedly.......entire classes of firearms bought in good faith gathered up from their legal owners without compensation.....and destroyed.

We're not stupid.

And if we've been robbed by the gov't repeatedly, how stupid would we have to be to support legislation that has ONLY one use......to increase their ability to steal from us.

I am curious, Colpy as to what evidence there is that the government is coming after our guns? I have not found a shred of evidence for this belief. I note you referred to previous seizures in the past. Could you be more specific or direct me to a link? I am always willing to learn.

 

[DaSleeper]

Colpy: Here is something you might find some interest in....

But you might already be a member;-)

Law-Abiding Unregistered Firearms Association - Fight C68/Firearms Act Canada

 

[Colpy]

Colpy: Here is something you might find some interest in....

But you might already be a member;-)

Law-Abiding Unregistered Firearms Association - Fight C68/Firearms Act Canada

Naw.

I'm a member of two organizations.....the National Firearms Association and the Canadian Shooting Sports Association.

Although I agree with the LAUFA...........two is enough, and I got the two major organizations covered.

 

[Colpy]

I am curious, Colpy as to what evidence there is that the government is coming after our guns? I have not found a shred of evidence for this belief. I note you referred to previous seizures in the past. Could you be more specific or direct me to a link? I am always willing to learn.

In 1934 they first started registering handguns......

In 1951, they first registered fully automatic weapons (??!! Yep! :roll

In 1979, they started registering short barreled, semi-automatic rifles.

In 1991, they began to prohibit and seize (without compensation) many of these arms. They also announced several perfectly legal accessories were now prohibited, and must be altered or destroyed also without compensation.

In 1995, the list of prohibited weapons to be seized was expanded to over 50% of the arms legally purchased and registered between 1934 and 1995. No compensation was paid, or is to be paid in the seizure of .25 and .32 caliber handguns, nor for short barreled handguns.

By the way....the excuse used in banning these guns was that they were so concealable....then the limit on barrel length was set at 105 mm......because the gov't understood that most handguns have 4 inch (100mm) barrels. Now tell me, how much easier is it to hide a 100 mm barreled gun than a 105mm barreled gun? Obviously the reason was used as an excuse to get as many handguns as possible.......

Some owners who had held 4" guns were grandfathered, as were some who owned the most politically correct type of military firearm. They are going to wait until these fortunates (including myself) die before they steal their weapons from their estates.

In 1998, the list of weapons to be seized was expanded, and acted upon.

So, we have a situation where thousands of guns registered since 1979 have already been seized (without compensation) I know good guys, even a law enforcement officer, that lost thousands of dollars worth of weapons.........

And over one half of the guns registered since 1934 are slated to be seized. the law is passed. The owners have been notified. The gov't just hasn't worked up the balls to start going door-to-door.

Meanwhile, the Liberals ran in a recent federal election on a promise to ban ALL handguns.........and I'm sure that includes all other restricted weapons....1.1 million in total. And sooner or later they will win an election. With NDP and Bloc support, they may win gov't quite soon.

What evidence is there the government is coming after our guns?

THEY ARE ALREADY HERE!!!!!

The fact that I am paranoid does not necessarily mean they aren't out to get me.

Sometimes paranoia is only good sense.

The list of restricted and prohibited weapons in Canada......

List of Restricted and Prohibited Firearms

 

[DaSleeper]

And most of those firearms, if not all were declared prohibited by "Order in council"
That clause was my major beef with C 68 when it was implemented.

 

[Colpy]

And most of those firearms, if not all were declared prohibited by "Order in council"
That clause was my major beef with C 68 when it was implemented.

The Act needs to be dumped entirely, and replaced with a sane licensing system that recognizes the rights of shooters in this country. The Firearms Act is a disgrace fully on par with anti-terror legislation. Legislation of this type has no place in a free country. (link below to HOW THE FIREARMS ACT VIOLATES THE CHARTER OF RIGHT AND FREEDOMS by Dr. Ted Morton }

HOW THE FIREARMS ACT

In the decision of the Supreme Court that found (against several provinces) that the Federal government did have the right to enact Firearms regulatory law, the justices took the unprecedented step of declaring they would consider challenges under the Charter.........I think they didn't like what they saw.

We'll get there, eventually. Meanwhile, stay armed!

 

[Omicron]

In 1991, they began to prohibit and seize (without compensation) many of these arms. They also announced several perfectly legal accessories were now prohibited, and must be altered or destroyed also without compensation.

In 1995, the list of prohibited weapons to be seized was expanded to over 50% of the arms legally purchased and registered between 1934 and 1995. No compensation was paid, or is to be paid in the seizure of .25 and .32 caliber handguns, nor for short barreled handguns.

Hmm... so that's how a certain city cop ended up with an elephant gun in his private collection... I heard.

 

[Bar Sinister]

I had a restricted firearm for a short time - A Sauer semiautomatic pistol my father brought back from World War II. Since my brother wanted it I transferred it to him. He still has it as an heirloom so far as I can know.

Given the list of firearms Colpy submitted I can certainly see why a number of them were banned given their ability to fire hundreds of rounds a minute. Why some of the others such as shotguns were banned I have no idea - the list was so extensive I have neither the time nor inclination to check all of them.

 

[Omicron]

*groan*... so I did some inquires, and the issue is this: Violent jerks who like to march around with guns are most likely to go crazy and shoot at people, and cops defending the situation want to know what weapons he likely has.

*sigh*... How about if we just data-base idiots like that like the sex-offender registry?

 

[DaSleeper]

I had a restricted firearm for a short time - A Sauer semiautomatic pistol my father brought back from World War II. Since my brother wanted it I transferred it to him. He still has it as an heirloom so far as I can know.

Given the list of firearms Colpy submitted I can certainly see why a number of them were banned given their ability to fire hundreds of rounds a minute. Why some of the others such as shotguns were banned I have no idea - the list was so extensive I have neither the time nor inclination to check all of them.

This example I give you will probably be touted as a bad example and some will try to take it apart line by line but I think it's something everyone can relate to.
You have this old classic car, that you enjoy looking at in your garage, and polish it once in a while and you never take it out because it doen't have any plate and it probably wouldn't pass the safety check because it has no lights, but you just drive it to the end of your driveway on your property and back in the garage to keep it in running order and your garage is always locked...another collector such as yourself would easily give you thousands of dollars for that car even if it can't be driven on the street.

Now how would you like it if a small group of people in the parliament of the day (Oreders in council)....would suddenly decide that that car could do a lot of damage and hurt people on the street if someone should happen to steal it and drive it at night with no lights and because you have registered it they know where it is.... so the cops come with a tow truck and take it away without giving you a red cent for it.

 

[Bar Sinister]

This example I give you will probably be touted as a bad example and some will try to take it apart line by line but I think it's something everyone can relate to.
You have this old classic car, that you enjoy looking at in your garage, and polish it once in a while and you never take it out because it doen't have any plate and it probably wouldn't pass the safety check because it has no lights, but you just drive it to the end of your driveway on your property and back in the garage to keep it in running order and your garage is always locked...another collector such as yourself would easily give you thousands of dollars for that car even if it can't be driven on the street.

Now how would you like it if a small group of people in the parliament of the day (Oreders in council)....would suddenly decide that that car could do a lot of damage and hurt people on the street if someone should happen to steal it and drive it at night with no lights and because you have registered it they know where it is.... so the cops come with a tow truck and take it away without giving you a red cent for it.

I certainly would not like it; but I could completely understand it if my classic car could be used to commit mass murder. As you say you have not picked a particularly good example. So far as I know a classic car has never been used to kill in the way you describe and even if one was that is not the purpose of a classic car. However, firearms have a sad history of being used repeatedly to kill the innocent; even those that are simply part of collections. It might be all very well for a collector to show off his fully automatic and quite operational firearm to admiring friends, but it is quite another problem when the firearm is used for less than peaceful purposes. And then there is the problem of the "collector" who has quite a different purpose in mind for his firearms.

You should understand that I have two heirloom firearms; one a German WW II P38 and the other an Adams percussion cap revolver from the 1850s. I keep them because they belonged to my father. I expect, however, that my son and heir will probably sell them once I am dead.

 

[Poirot]

long guns kill most of the people in Canada

Have built flintlocke long rifles most of our life.
Hunted and target shoot with them.
Have never seen a single injury or death hunting or target shooting.
Somehow find this claim hard to believe?

 

[DaSleeper]

I certainly would not like it; but I could completely understand it if my classic car could be used to commit mass murder. As you say you have not picked a particularly good example. So far as I know a classic car has never been used to kill in the way you describe and even if one was that is not the purpose of a classic car. However, firearms have a sad history of being used repeatedly to kill the innocent; even those that are simply part of collections. It might be all very well for a collector to show off his fully automatic and quite operational firearm to admiring friends, but it is quite another problem when the firearm is used for less than peaceful purposes. And then there is the problem of the "collector" who has quite a different purpose in mind for his firearms.

You should understand that I have two heirloom firearms; one a German WW II P38 and the other an Adams percussion cap revolver from the 1850s. I keep them because they belonged to my father. I expect, however, that my son and heir will probably sell them once I am dead.

A car can be used to commit murder (How many people are killed on the road every year??)
But you missed the point, which is the last paragraph of my little story and you twisted my word around in first paragraph to suit your purpouse(I never said the car would be used to commit mass murder I said cause an accident)
Your property can be taken without compensation
The gov't often takes your property (let's say to build a highway) but you get paid for it....but not so for firearms.

 

[ironsides]

RCMP's report on the long-gun registry

Read it and learn

http://www.cbc.ca/politics/insidepolitics/2010/08/rcmps-report-on-the-long-gun-registry-sent-to-mps.html#gunregistry

William Shatner - Read it and learn.

YouTube - William Shatner on Gun Control - It's How Well You Aim the Gun


:wav:

 

[Bar Sinister]

A car can be used to commit murder (How many people are killed on the road every year??)
But you missed the point, which is the last paragraph of my little story and you twisted my word around in first paragraph to suit your purpouse(I never said the car would be used to commit mass murder I said cause an accident)
Your property can be taken without compensation
The gov't often takes your property (let's say to build a highway) but you get paid for it....but not so for firearms.

I didn't say your car could be used to commit mass murder. You missed the point - I was referring to the fact that firearms can be used that way. Read my post again - I was pointing out that cars and guns are in completely different categories. A car is intended to be used as transport - yes, it can kill if it is used improperly, but that is not its function. Guns are designed to kill, which is why their use is much more likely to be restricted or even prohibited.

William Shatner - Read it and learn.

YouTube - William Shatner on Gun Control - It's How Well You Aim the Gun


:wav:

Alright - I watched it. What was I supposed to learn from that other than the fact that William Shatner stars in far-fetched almost comedic dramas?

And what are we supposed to think about a supposed hold up man who cocks his firearm only after he has been pointing it at his victims for several seconds? That is a modern film cliche I have always thought to be completely stupid.

 

[Colpy]

The registry is a complete insult to gun owners.....not only because of its existence, but because of the attitude of those that wrote the Firearms Act. We are treated like criminals simply for owning perfectly legal merchandise.....and the attitude of those running the gun control infrastructure was one of the negatives listed by Sheila Fraser in her early study of the system....

Need a little more evidence that yes, they really are out to get us?

CSSA: Chief Firearms Officer of Prince Edward Island Wants Your Firearms -- OR ELSE.

 

[taxslave]

Despite what the vested political interests have to say to keep collecting tax dollars the Long gun registry still does not address the real problem and that is the refusal of criminals to register their automatic hand guns.
ANy cop that depends on the registry to determine if there are guns at a domestic dispute is a fool and could quite likely end up being a dead fool because of the lack of aforementioned illegal hand guns.
The fear of having our registered long guns stolen by the police is real. Several years ago people that foolishly registered their automatic rifles, which were perfectly legal to own at the time had them confiscated by the government with no compensation when some politicians on a vote buying spree changed their status to prohibited and conveniently had the addresses og all the law abiding owners that foolishly registered them.