There's a simple solution to the whole raw milk situation: humans should not be drinking milk once they reach puberty anyway. So don't worry about where to get raw milk, stop drinking it altogether.
Raw Milk Victories
- Thread starter dumpthemonarchy
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Nah, I just like dragging things in, and stirring them about, and throwing them out, and etc. Don't take it seriously, or personally. I prefer vodka and diet pepsi, but what other folks drink ain't none o my concern.;-)
Shooting oneself in the foot refers to taking a chance on getting sick by drinking unpasteurized milk. What if some 'terrist' farmer heaves a great bit cow flop into the bulk cooler??8Okood happen eh
I used to help my uncle milk the cows way way back, and, although he was very very careful about sanitation, we milked in a BARN with MANURE, URINE, CATS, MICE, and so on being "in the area". He bought the family's milk at the store. Would never think of drinking right from the cow.
That was when we used to get tested at school for TB, and it was still prevalent and sometimes rampant. Just foolish to take a chance IMO.
I think those that support drinking raw milk are trying to push their own financial agenda just like everyone else. Hey!, It's a free country.
Because some people are not all people, and sterilizing milk drastically cut down on food related illness. Maybe the farmer you know has good grass, and has a sanitary farm. You don't know that about the other farmers, and mixing milk from different farms will turn good milk into bad milk if only one farm has bad milk.
So buy your milk from one farmer, this decision is great for people like you who want it. But, to buy it in grocery stores, like most Canadians? Each farm's milk would need to be tested before it enters the dairy. Who's going to do that? How much are you willing to pay? Is the market going to bare it? I doubt it.
Yeah, for those of us who remember all the TB scares,
and shots, and having to get a shot if someone close by
came down with the disease, and the seriousness of the
disease, I don't take lightly, 'just' tossing prevention
away that has been in place, without 'knowing' that is the
right thing to do.
On the weekend, I was at an event where a young lady was complaining because she went to the farmers' market at 8am, and discovered the special handmade organic butter was all gone. Sold out. She was deeply offended. She pre-paid for a pound for next week. But still, her complaint was that the guy opened at 7:30 and was sold out within an hour.
I guess he didn't get the memo that she was coming. She somehow couldn't grasp the idea that handmade meant less was available, and that she wasn't the only one looking for butter.
My suggestion to her was to offer to buy him a cow, as long as she could get half of the butter made fom its milk. She thought I was crazy, but her husband agreed with me. So I suggested a Jersey, 'cause they have high fat content.
I guess he didn't get the memo that she was coming. She somehow couldn't grasp the idea that handmade meant less was available, and that she wasn't the only one looking for butter.
My suggestion to her was to offer to buy him a cow, as long as she could get half of the butter made fom its milk. She thought I was crazy, but her husband agreed with me. So I suggested a Jersey, 'cause they have high fat content.
Tonington, your arguments and questions don't make any sense. Why would you let all these things worry you? I seriously doubt that you would be buying or using raw milk anyway.
I have no idea why you think raw milk should be made available through grocery stores for “everyone.” Why? Based on what I've seen in supermarkets in terms of sloppy handling of products with expiry dates, I wouldn't want a grocery store to handle raw milk. My late mother, who used to have vision problems, often came home from the supermarket with products past their expiry date because she couldn't read the fine print. The 'system' didn't do a very good job of protecting her now, did it? Well, DID IT??? In most cases, you have to really dig to find the damn dates on some products. Why is that? Why is that allowed? Why isn't my government protecting me?
Do you really think that all the nice food you buy in pretty packages in the grocery store is handled in a nice clean way? I once saw 2 guys urinating into a vat of one of Canada's most popular vegetable juices before it was packaged and sent off to the grocery stores. Did someone get sick from that? Maybe...I don't know and neither do you. How about the mouse remains I once saw stuck in a pie filling pump in a "big name" frozen food factory? Parts of it had already made their way into your favourite frozen pie ... off to the grocery store again. We already know what happened - more than once - with all those yummy luncheon meats from Maple Leaf.
Yes, I know - the sterilization processes may have killed the dangerous pieces of the 'extra ingredients' in those products, but not likely...the veggy juice was ready to be packaged, so it had already been 'processed'. The mouse parts were at the point of final pie assembly, so that's doubtful too. The Listeria we already know about, don't we? In any case, I'd prefer not to eat those little 'mysteries' in the 'food'...human urine, body parts of a mouse, or Listeria aren't high on my list of favourite food ingredients.
What's my point? Well, let's see...I prefer to eat whole, natural foods as much as possible. And I don't like them coming from a big factory where big mistakes can happen, as the Maple Leaf fiasco, where people actually died from eating their unsafe products. You can go ahead and blame Stephen Harper and the gang for it, but I don't buy that for a minute. You just asked about whether the average consumer would pay for the 'extra cost' of having raw milk inspected (dairy farms already are inspected, by the way)...
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:qEPnOe6rgFYJ:www.agf.gov.bc.ca/resmgmt/fppa/refguide/commodity/870218-7_Dairy.pdf+inspection+dairy+farms&hl=en&gl=ca&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShUsCvAKhH6E_U5YxjvvEzCWyGnmuHY-veuS3zx06ysrzbf_d1oEQl2Mp2_NwBBRdyaKvA7ZqyfYEe0vMzeso9W38zvXUQl_LFdFBnW52CFzvA-UV8WiBB_98LZNThSYRc-_DH-&sig=AHIEtbRygrmJt4SRuDPc_efstQi1lvYisg
...so adding more inspectors is not, in my opinion, the answer to that riddle.
To get your head around the big picture here, I think you have to start with the consumer. The consumer wants cheap food and they want it safe. And fast, in most cases. As a society (I'm talking both Canada and the U.S.), we have driven the importance of food down to a “utility level”, for lack of a better term. We have delegated the whole subject off to a bunch of big companies and the government. The big companies produce lots of cheap food and the governments are supposed to make sure it's safe to eat. We just don't seem to understand food, nor do we want to.
When I look around the world – and I have been fortunate enough to have done a lot of that – I find that our food culture is quite unique. I cannot name another country (except the U.S.) where people are so ignorant about their food, or where they place such a low priority on it. Some anecdotal examples...Italy – the folks there are downright passionate about what they eat...the quality, the taste, the presentation...eating in Italy is an experience, not something to do in between other activities. France – maybe not quite as passionate or colorful about their food, but they certainly place a high priority on it...lunch “hours” are usually longer than an hour, and dinner is a real social experience that takes place late in the evening when they can sit back and really enjoy what they're eating. Spain – a wonderland of good, natural, and delicious foods and eating experiences. Japan – you might be amazed at how much the average businessman over there knows about food...how it's made, what's in it, what's good for you, what's not, even the history of food. They kind of ran short on food during and immediately after WWII, and their appreciation of it runs high even today. Korea – another previously war-torn country whose people understand and eat pretty good food. Malaysia – an eater's dream...a blend of Chinese, Indian, and native Malay cuisines with some of the best ingredients I've even seen or eaten.
I came across one of the many news clips on high blood pressure the other day. A medical doctor was being interviewed and his point was, “We'll have to come up with new treatments for this.” He actually said that! Now here's a trained medical professional saying right out loud that he doesn't get the connection between lifestyle/diet and high blood pressure. He immediately went to “treatment” instead of talking about prevention. How can that be? Well, I guess there are many reasons, but it smacks of downright incompetence in my opinion. I don't know what else to call it.
Our society has 2 problems when it comes to food...one, we want it cheap and fast. Two, we don't understand the importance of food and its impact on our well-being. And to top it all off, we don't seem to give a sh*t.
As I said earlier, we seem to want to delegate the responsibility for our well-being to “someone else.” This may be a symptom of a bigger problem, which the issue of “accountability for our own actions.”
What I see emerging is a disturbing trend of people not being able to, or not wanting to think for themselves. Of not taking responsibility for their actions. Of wanting government to do more and more things for us, in lieu of us doing things for ourselves.
The problem with that direction is, given enough time and carried to an extreme, we could end up with a society that can no longer function as a “value-generating” country. And, without the generation of wealth (value), there would be a reduced ability to pay the taxes necessary to support the growth of public programs demanded by the people - the same people that could no longer generate the wealth. I see that as a type of self-destructive behaviour, in the long run.
We'll see this happening very soon in the health care system. The number of people (younger, working people) that can pay for it is getting smaller, while the number of people who will need more and more services is getting bigger. It's all there in facts and figures. Now stack on top of that the news that some 20 and 30 year olds are – according to CBC and others – entering into an epidemic of high blood pressure, which brings up real health problems, and you're going to see a financial mess happening. And what do we do? Scream to governments that they need to pour money into a system that already has problems. Around 40% of provincial budgets are devoted to health care now! What's the limit? 50%? 60%? 99%? Or, just keep the 40% in place and raise taxes to make the dollar amount bigger? Oops, that might now work, as we won't have as many people working to pay those taxes.
There are lots of different approaches to this conundrum, but I'm pretty sure that one of them would be to try and take the pressure off the health care system by preventing some of these diseases and conditions in the first place. I don't think anyone has to be a trained medical professional to know what the big, expensive and conditions are...heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and of course, kidney disease, high blood pressure, obesity, and a few others – many are related to each other. The stats are there, the projections are there...the information is there.
There is a growing body of evidence and studies that indicate our diet plays a big role in this scenario. Processed food is coming under the microscope and has been proven to contribute to the diet-related conditions. Generally speaking, it is loaded with additives and many processed foods have been “treated” to render them “safe” in the eyes of the government. But they're not “safe”, in my opinion. If they were, we wouldn't be seeing what's happening on the health front today, or at least, not to the same extremes.
This thread is about raw milk and the right to have a choice. The controversy is “Is it safe to drink?” Personally, I don't drink milk, but I do eat some milk products (cheese and butter) that I would like to see made from raw milk. As I've pointed out with some postings, raw milk is more nutritious and better for you than pasteurized milk. Those are the facts. Sure, there is some risk about food handling, bacteria, and TB but those are all issues that can be addressed with a decent plan and a simple, proper system in place to manage it.
We're talking about change of course, and not change simply for the sake of change. We NEED to change our attitude toward food and its direct connection to our well-being. I believe our food (and the way we treat it) is a “root cause” of many health problems.
The growing “local food movement” is one way that things can start to change. At this point, it's still very much in its infancy stages, but it could turn out to be a big part of the answer. And it's not revolutionary or new...it's how food used to be produced and distributed a long time ago. And still is, in other parts of the world. By the way, your point on “ mixing milk from different farms will turn good milk into bad milk if only one farm has bad milk” would be non-issue if locally-produced milk was supplied by these smaller “cottage” producers.
Your last questions on your post related to the marketing side of raw milk...how people would get it, the pricing, etc. I wouldn't worry too much about that at this point...those are relatively simple issues that won't surface until basic regulations change concerning the freedom of choice on raw milk.
When that happens, believe me, it's a relatively simple matter to establish “channels of distribution” and pricing structures that will fit the needs of those consumers interested in getting the product. It won't all look the same across the country, nor is there any need for it to do so. As you pointed out, the needs of a consumer in downtown Toronto are different than one that lives in Yellowgrass, Saskatchewan. The marketing “systems” will have to accommodate them. That's the beauty of a free market system...it addresses the needs of customers.
All I'm looking for is a choice.
No offence taken, Nuggler but thanks for the note.
Jeez, if I was milking cows in that same barn I think I'd be buying my milk from the store too! We milked cows by hand when I was a kid, but if the area wasn't squeaky clean, by posterior would suffer...my uncle believe in the K.I.T.A. management technique.
Financial agenda? Nope, not in my case. I just want some good butter and cheese. And if I could get it, I'm sure I would be paying more than I would for the "safe" stuff. :-?
You don't quite understand 'best before' dates, do you?
You're one of the reasons that they're talking about eliminating 'best before' dates in the UK.
Best before
A tag sealing a bag of hot dog buns displays a best before date of February 29.
Best before dates appear on a wide range of frozen, dried, tinned and other foods. These dates are usually only advisory and refer to the quality of the product, in contrast with use by and best by dates, which indicate that the product is no longer safe to consume after the specified date.[7] In spite of this, about a third of food bought is thrown away while still edible.[citation needed] In fact, food kept past the best before date will not necessarily be harmful, but may begin to lose its optimum flavour and texture. Eggs are a special case, since they may contain salmonella, which multiplies over time; they should therefore not be eaten after the best before date.
A tag sealing a bag of hot dog buns displays a best before date of February 29.
Best before dates appear on a wide range of frozen, dried, tinned and other foods. These dates are usually only advisory and refer to the quality of the product, in contrast with use by and best by dates, which indicate that the product is no longer safe to consume after the specified date.[7] In spite of this, about a third of food bought is thrown away while still edible.[citation needed] In fact, food kept past the best before date will not necessarily be harmful, but may begin to lose its optimum flavour and texture. Eggs are a special case, since they may contain salmonella, which multiplies over time; they should therefore not be eaten after the best before date.
The nice thing is all the massive sales you can find on 'expired' food, since few others will buy it.. lol.
Best before
A tag sealing a bag of hot dog buns displays a best before date of February 29.
Best before dates appear on a wide range of frozen, dried, tinned and other foods. These dates are usually only advisory and refer to the quality of the product, in contrast with use by and best by dates, which indicate that the product is no longer safe to consume after the specified date.[7] In spite of this, about a third of food bought is thrown away while still edible.[citation needed] In fact, food kept past the best before date will not necessarily be harmful, but may begin to lose its optimum flavour and texture. Eggs are a special case, since they may contain salmonella, which multiplies over time; they should therefore not be eaten after the best before date.
I guess green spots on the cheddar cheese means it might not be 'best' any more? :-|
Get a discount on it, trim the mould off, grate it, freeze it. Do you never shop on a budget? lol.
Hey, great idea! The only thing that bugs me is the amount of carcinogens that might have worked their way into the interior of the cheese chunk. Apparently, the white spots are as bad as the green spots!
Karrie - A budget? I'm so cheap I squeak. I even make my own goat cheese when I can get goat's milk...raw, of course! :lol:
Oh I know...but, my "Food Safe" partner was trained on this stuff and when we owned/operated a restaurant, she was adamant about good cheese with no "unusual" growths on it. I guess it sticks with me now. Seriously, some of those cheese molds are pretty deadly stuff.
I've never had green spots on my cheddar, it's usually white or blue.
And I trim it off, and eat the rest.
It's only mould; don't you ever take pennicilin when you've got an infection?
Because as soon as that person gets sick, it's the taxpayer that has to take care of them. If the illness turns chronic, then it's even more money spent to take care of something that should never have happened in the first place.