In fact if the PQ was to run on a strong platform of independence it would almost certainly tend to be a vote loser.
We'll see. The election is not for a while yet, plenty of time for Quebecois to fume about the policies Harper enacts.
In fact if the PQ was to run on a strong platform of independence it would almost certainly tend to be a vote loser.
So what? The people of Quebec have and have always had the right to elect their own provincial gov't. That gov't can do whatever it wants, including hold referendums on seperation. However, if Quebec should vote to seperate, that doesn't mean the remaining parts of Canada are under any obligation to give it any of it wants unless Canadians wish it to be so.
Why should they feel any different than other Canadians? There are laws to protect their rights, just as there are to protect those outside of Quebec. If anything Quebec's own laws are what drives division on issues like language because they are far more discriminatory than anything accepted outside it.
The NDP won't be able to do a damned thing the Conservatives don't want them to do. Jack's promises of trying to re-open the constitution are hot air unless the Prime Minister decides to do so. I honestly don't see this happening though, because there are far too many issues that would come from re-opening constitutional talks that can't be resolved.
The only reason Quebec hasn't been "successfully included in Canada" is because Quebec refuses to allow itself to be so. Quebec refuses to see itself as an equal to the other provinces and until it does so, will hold itself apart. Thats not something to blame Canadians for...
We'll just have to wait and see...Well they traded one opposition party for another. The one they traded to, however doesn't put Quebec's interests ahead of all others, though, so they may be disappointed...
How much more conciliatory should Ottawa be? Quebec already has won special status and concessions from Ottawa on numerous issues. Do we need to let Quebec draft a constitution where they can just outright rule over the rest of the country? I'm also curious how you think a Conservative majority and the demise of the BQ is bad for a united Canada? Both the CPC and NDP are federalist parties. Granted, the CPC's stance on some issues may not be what some Quebecers want to see but thats the same for some region, no matter who is in power... or is this just more of Quebec wanting to take Canada's ball and go home?
I second thatThe best strategy for dealing with Quebec is good government for Canada. Treat Canada well and treat all provinces equal. Any special treatment for Quebec may seem like a good idea, but in the long run it will create problems.
/2cents
If the YES side ever wins, negotiations will indeed be rough n' tough and I think many separatists are in denial about this.
The reason most Quebecers feel different is mostly because they speak a different language. It's as simple as that. I'm not saying Quebecers are right to consider themselves more special than the ROC (I don't believe in a special status for Quebec) but it's clear that the language divide is mostly responsible for this feeling that we are our own nation (I do agree that we are our own nation!). Beyond that it's clear that Quebec is more left leaning than the rest of the country. And that's a key issue to connect with the language issue. There has always been a strong collectivist vibe in Quebec and the reason language laws are accepted by a majority here is that they are understood as being a necessary protection of the rights of our collectivity.
Individual rights is all nice and good. But collective rights are also a strong and necessary reality
I will personally be the first to admit that Canada is very diverse and as I said, I don't believe in a special status for Quebec. What I believe in is a significantly decentralized Canada that gives enough leverage to ALL provinces to manage their own affairs. My initial reaction to the ROC complaining about our language laws is ''mind your own ****ing business'' and I'm a pretty soft nationalist. The picture couldn't be clear enough. Quebecers won't let strangers from the ROC decide if we can protect our language or not. If Quebec is to be fully included in Canada, the country will have to accept once and for all our linguistic situation and our determination to protect our language.
We are all to blame. Quebecers are to blame for thinking they're more special than the ROC and the rest of Canada is to blame for not accepting Quebec's difference. There is no contradiction in what I just said. I strongly believe that the future of Canada lies in its capacity to sustain some form of multinationalism. Quebec nationalism doesn't have to be against Canada. Many soft nationalists like me simply view Canada as being a larger political framework of which we are a part of. A bit like France is part of the European Union. The key here is dialogue and as I already said, dialogue is difficult when you don't speak the same language.
As for the Constitution, Quebec should NOT rule the rest of the country. Quebec should simply have the right to do things their way on certain key issues. But ALL provinces should have that right. Quebecers may be guilty of feeling more special than the rest of the country, I can admit that, but they're not guilty of trying to STOP other provinces from gaining the same rights to some form of independence. Canadians need to wake up on that issue. The independence Quebec is trying to gain is up for grabs everywhere in Canada. It's up to you to fight for it if you want to do so. If you don't want more independence for you province that's your business, but don't blame us for wanting to be ''maîtres chez nous''!!!
Sure they are.... Did you start Kindergarten with a Grade XII diploma?The NDs Las Vegas candidate, the CBC is reporting that the supporters who signed her nomination papers are claiming that is not their signature and they did not sign her nomination papers.
Also, she did not live in the riding she got elected.
Hmmmm, Jack and kids are already having problems!
No argument from me on this. Not being a Quebecer (not having ever set foot in the province!), all I have is the impression of what seperatists expect, as portrayed in the media and they seem to have a very different set of expectations as to what they envision than what I get from leaders/citizens outside Quebec.
I don't completely agree with you here, mainly because of the left-leaning politics statement. BC, Manitoba, Ontario and Saskatchewan have all had NDP provincial gov'ts in recent memory. Now not all of them are remembered fondly by those provinces but BC's NDP was one of the most leftwing parties in the nation.
My reaction to Quebec language laws is that a) they are unnecessary because of the protection the constitution and federal language laws grant, b) Quebecers need to accept that English Canada isn't the threat to their language but rather cultural evolution, and trying to stem the tide of history through legislative means (means that are discriminatory) is ineffective and only generates derision and contempt when looked on from the outside. People in Acadian or the francophone parts of New Brunswick don't seem to need any further protection for their culture (which is arguably more endangered because they are smaller "islands" so to speak) so why does Quebec? Can it not stand on its own merits, within the equality that federal law grants to ALL cultures but especially to the french culture in Canada?
I don't agree. Quebec is still seeming to harbour grudges that go back beyond Confederation. Yes, there have been times that the french population of Quebec was looked down upon, and politically alienated but thats not unique: it still happens in our politics today, with the regionalism. No one else to blame for the demands Quebec makes, and in fact the rest of the country has made concessions to Quebec's language and culture fairly consistently. And Canada is a nation, not an economic union like the EU, so the dynamic has to be different.
I agree dialogue is key but its not going to get anywhere when one side is expected to make all the concessions...
Hey, I agree with you that there is too much control in Ottawa: thats been pretty much a universal feeling amongst most Albertans as long as I can remember but Quebec isn't stopping there. By having its own embassies in other countries, by controlling its own immigation policies, among other things, Quebec is taking actions that do affect everyone else in the country, and not necessarily in a positive manner. You talked earlier about Quebec's collectivist mindset, but it seems to stop at the provincial borders...
The NDs Las Vegas candidate, the CBC is reporting that the supporters who signed her nomination papers are claiming that is not their signature and they did not sign her nomination papers.
Also, she did not live in the riding she got elected.
Hmmmm, Jack and kids are already having problems!
Take note of who has the problem with it.... What's it say when someone who didn't campaign beat out the Tory?(written with a tone of sarcasm)
I never occured to me that the Los Vegas NDPer would slip into problems so quickly.
Take note of who has the problem with it.... What's it say when someone who didn't campaign beat out the Tory?
A lot of this depends on how well the NDP does as opposition. The next generation is
not as interested in separation, as the older one. The separatists are now divided on
the Federal and Provincial scale. Yes Layton would open the constitution but he won't
be doing that now. Secondly the separatists were down in popularity and the young
are not living everyday waiting for a new nation. Several students from McGill are now
MP"s. I think it is a stretch to say its not real, after all many said the NDP would take no
more than for or fifty seats period. No one knows the landscape yet and even the Tories
are beginning to realize they can't do what ever they want, power must be tempered with
wisdom. Brian Mulroney didn't think in those terms and he was reduced to two seats.
The only thing people know right now is there is a new political reality and it must play
itself out on the pages of history
Of course no true separatist will see the obliteration of the Bloc as a good omen for the movement. Yet a lot of talk is going around on how this actually might be the best thing to happen to the movement in a long time. The polarization will be as strong as ever with Quebec fully into the opposition mode versus the rest of Canada. The idea that the rest of Canada is like a different country is and will be as strong as ever. I'm not voluntarily ignoring the fact that there is a significant left leaning movement in the rest of Canada. I can see that. But the global zeitgeist in Quebec nonetheless risks turning into a ''us vs. them''.
I'd also like to see those polls on 20% support for separatism... Traditionally, separatist support tends to oscillate around a fixed base of 40%. And I tend to think that it's still close to that despite what the circumstances can lead us to think. The key word here I think is ''volatility''. I know many separatists who voted NDP. People know the project is on hold for now and the temptation to give a true left leaning balance of power in Ottawa has concretized.
As for the PQ's platform they are shaping up to propose some kind of ''sovereigntist governance'' to Quebecers. This means attempting to repatriate as many powers from Ottawa as possible if they come to power. This strategy shouldn't be underestimated because it's some form of win-win situation for separatists. Either the PQ does succeed at repatriating powers and we end up being more independent while still being part of Canada, or the rest of Canada gives Quebec a resounding ''NO'' and Quebecers have a reason for separating again.
Of course the PQ must get elected in the first place. I think the key to the future of the sovereignty movement is in a strong pro-environment stance (that somehow manages to be good for economy at the same time.) This the only way the sovereigntist movement will rejuvenate its base by attracting the new generation. If it can succeed on that aspect, it will manage to show itself as a true alternative to the conservative political landscape of the ROC who, let's face it, doesn't seem to care much for the ecological challenges that await us in the next decades.
It is true that the movement has aged and many hard core separatists are slowly turning old and less eager for drastic change.
Just in nagging, Layton keeps his word to Quebec - and in being turned down, he saves face to staunch francophobes. Can Harper claim the same?
Please, correct me if I am wrong but doesn't Quebec already enjoy more privileges than the other provinces? If that is the case, then any more repatriating of powers to the province must include the same for every other province in Canada. Quebec is no more, no less special than any other province in our country.
The short answer is of course, no. However, opening the constitution to appease Quebec or bring it into the fold is not something most Canadians give a hoot about. Thus, Mr Harper would simply be following the wishes of the ROC. IMHO.