Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

[Andem]

How can you compare us to Republicans? Atleast saying that god doesn't exist is a point. You havent even made a point.

Can you tell us any pros or debate the cons that we have presented? You are obviously pro-sovereigntist. What are your reasons? This thread is pointless without them.

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

it appears cubc1 only came on to say that it didn't matter what anyone says, Quebec will choose its own course. So there is no opening for debate, which is the nature of a forum. It is though, clear evidence of a mindset of many in the sovereignist movement, an emotional appeal with no real concept of process. This is a very devisive topic and one could anticipate vitriolic response. Though Quebecois will shape their destiny, that will only be accomplished after much negotiation. Given the responses in this threat it would likely be in a much smaller plot of land, with much poorer people who don't have a friend in sight. That's life!!

Oh yeah, can you give me a concrete example in Canada's past that it was ever open for discussion with Québec.

Look at your current liberal party issues in Québec and their argument. You really think the fight for national unity is a position of discution? It is a "machinéen" (black or white, never gray) technique. You are either a good federalist, or a bad separatist.

To talk to me as the one who doesnt want to discuss. Fuck, I'm the only french canadian here fighting agaisnt almost every one here and you are talking to me as if I'm not open for discusion? Can I ask how many people here initiated contact in a french sovereignist forum?

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

I don't understand why you think I have to convince you of anything. It is a Québec debate. THIS IS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE THREAD.

Sorry but it isn't MY case. It's the case of the majority of Québecers, and 70% of the Québec's francophones.

Stressed because my points are strucked down here? Let me laugh. It would have been stupid to think you would have reacted in another way. It's like going into a republican convention and trying to convince them that god doesn't exist. I didn't expect any kind of understanding from the biased users of this forum.

Missile, thanks for the blackmailer adjective, I'll add it to my list.

the Quebec issue is NOT just a Quebec Issue........as what Quebec does, wants etc affects the entire country.

Ok, what about that in my head and heart, we already are a country? You may say what you want, but I think I'm free to think whatever I want. So yes, for me, it's a Québec issue.

 

[cub1c]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

How can you compare us to Republicans? Atleast saying that god doesn't exist is a point. You havent even made a point.

Can you tell us any pros or debate the cons that we have presented? You are obviously pro-sovereigntist. What are your reasons? This thread is pointless without them.

You really think that people here, will be satisfied with me giving out my reasons? Come on. I'm not a fool.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

First, this is no debate at all. I'm the only one on my side here and I don't think I alone can represent the sovereignist option.

...and yet all alone in a voting booth somewhere, you'd merrily throw down a check into the "0UI" box...are all Quebecois as irresponsible as you are portraying yourself?

If I really had time to spread and explain the sovereignty option, you can be sure I won't be loosing time here to do it. All of my resources would be directed to those who matters, those who will decide, the Québécois.

Why don't you just admit that there isn't really any good plan, or even reason for secession, and leave it at that...then the ROC can stop the act of being mildly interested, and get back to being pissed off at you wishing to damage our beloved country...

 

[Doryman]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

We are attacking you, yes, because you're simply presenting an emotional outcry that boils down to....

"Quebec should be free because we are different and have a special, DISTINCT culture, and we want to be free and the ROC is mean... also we want you to pay for us to be free and help us become the poutine-gobbling economic dynamo of the North Atlantic, but we still won't like you and we're allowed to not like you because you kept us from being free until those few times you let us vote for our freedom and we accidentally voted against it but THIS TIME we'll do it right and blah blah blah blah...."

I don't know about anyone else, but everytime I talk to a seperatist the argument ends up sounding a lot like the example above.

So, Mr. Fleur-de-Lys, you can help me and others like me understand why la Belle Province wants to leave by clearly, concisely and un-emotionally answering my simple question.

What.

Does.

Quebec.

Want?

 

[the caracal kid]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

How can you compare us to Republicans? Atleast saying that god doesn't exist is a point. You havent even made a point.

Can you tell us any pros or debate the cons that we have presented? You are obviously pro-sovereigntist. What are your reasons? This thread is pointless without them.

You really think that people here, will be satisfied with me giving out my reasons? Come on. I'm not a fool.

i would like to hear your reasons.

 

[Booh]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

What.

Does.

Quebec.

Want?

All the benefits of being a country without any of the drawbacks.

 

[PoisonPete2]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

What.

Does.

Quebec.

Want?

All the benefits of being a country without any of the drawbacks.

Answer - cheaper flight costs to foreign destinations.

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will

What.

Does.

Quebec.

Want?

All the benefits of being a country without any of the drawbacks.

Answer - cheaper flight costs to foreign destinations.

:lol:

 

[s_lone]

HEY FEDERALISTS!

Stop thinking the seperatist cause is only the immature and emotional "caprices" of the Québecois. The Quebec seperatist movement is a failure of Canada. We are all in this together.

(Don't get me wrong, Canada is a great country and it has many victories.)

My impression right now is that although the seperatist movement is gaining strength, a significant amount of potentially "YES" voters are simply contemplating what is going on in Canada right now. It all depends on how things unfold in the next few years. The most important thing for you ROCers is to not take Quebec for granted. You can easily wake up one morning with your country split in 2 within the next 5 to 10 years.

Of course the debate usually gets emotional. All of you will have emotions flying high the night Quebec finally says YES. We are talking about creating a new country and forever changing Canada. You federalist ROCers are as emotional as we are about the cause, you're simply less exposed to it.

The truth is no one knows for sure what will happen if we do seperate. (we can only hope everybody is gonna be adult about it). This does not mean there isn't serious planning and debating on the seperatist side. How often do you get news about what goes on in the sovereignist movement?

I agree that the destiny of Quebec will be decided by Quebecois but for now we are still in Canada and it's still possible for all Canadians to do something about the situation.

My bet is that if Quebec stays in Canada for good, Canada will have reformed significantly, which will be to the advantage of all other provinces.

Best,

 

[s_lone]

cub1c, what do you expect to improve in a sovereign Quebec?
Or, put another way, what are sépératistes dissatisified with in the current provincial/federal arrangement?

2. More regional power. I am not fundamentally against globalisation but I think it needs a strong resistance everywhere.

3. If it is true that Quebec gets tons of money from the rest of Canada

If federalism is to work, Quebecers want to feel like they are contributing to it, not constantly begging it!


5. Culturally, we are already a country.

2, More Regional power where? IN the Maritimes, annexing Labrador from Newfoundland? Your charting a dangerous course there friend. No-one's going to let Labrador go easily.

3. It is true. you people get treated like the spoiled child, and the rest of us get what you don't snatch up. You're in for a rude awakening when you seperate and my province gleefully hacks down the power lines that WE maintain and operate and YOU reap the benefits from.



The only difference is that you speak French. Suck it up, princess.

Mr. Doryman,

You don't get the point so let me repeat for you. Like I said, IF it is true that the political entity of Quebec is desperately dependant upon the rest of Canada to survive than this should stop! It's as simple as that. You should want that and we should want that.

This idea is in direct relation with the "more regional power". I believe EVERY region, be it province, country, state or city, should be as independant as it can be. The world right now simply isn't ready for globalization. Look at the climate change situation and the obvious damage of abusive capitalism and market laws. If you can't see that we're not on the same wavelength.

To me, sovereignty is a tool that I believe could make my surrounding society more mature and responsible and hopefully help us create a greater sense of community. That is why it's not always appropriate to call us seperatists. We are only seperatists from your side of the fence. All we want is to be more independant like any nation does.
Independance does not mean isolation.

For the cultural issue you are taking this too personal. I simply think that culturally, Quebec has all it takes to form a country. And yes, speaking a different language is a pretty big cultural difference. If Alberta, Newfoundland or Nunavut want to become countries I will be happy for them.

Take it easy,

 

[Numure]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

[
I don't think those kind of things are availaible right now, because we are still a couple of years from year 1 of our country. Be patient, it will come.

I find that almost laughable considering economic policy is centeral to a county's survival. That and the fact that this "issue" is so old, the PQ et al have had decades to come up with a sellable plan.

The PQ have plans for every possible situation. Some are outright scary. Thus why they wont be released. We need to win the first vote to start any kind of negotiation for ANYTHING.

 

[Said1]

Re: RE: Québec's destiny will be decided by Québécois.

[
I don't think those kind of things are availaible right now, because we are still a couple of years from year 1 of our country. Be patient, it will come.

I find that almost laughable considering economic policy is centeral to a county's survival. That and the fact that this "issue" is so old, the PQ et al have had decades to come up with a sellable plan.

The PQ have plans for every possible situation. Some are outright scary. Thus why they wont be released. We need to win the first vote to start any kind of negotiation for ANYTHING.

I'd be curious before I voted for anything.

Anyway, wIth the exception of customs unions, I think sovereignty-association is the best way to go, because it's the cheapest and safest, even though it was assumed without much detail or approval from the Canadian government last time around. But honestly, I think the PQ is way over their heads, but good luck anyway.

 

[Doryman]

s_lone,

"I believe EVERY region, be it province, country, state or city, should be as independant as it can be"

So.. you would be in support of say, Montreal seperating from the Province of Quebec if the members of that city believe they want more independence? I highly doubt that. Right now, your province, like all the others, is as independent as a province can be within a country. Every other province is fine with this arrangement (even newfoundland, which has been enthusiastically buggered more than once) and is realistic enough to accept the fact that it's the best of all possible scenarios. Supporting the right of EVERY institution to become seperate and independent is immature and irresponsible. It will lead to a breakdown in order and innumerable small, weak countries.

The world right now simply isn't ready for globalization. Look at the climate change situation and the obvious damage of abusive capitalism and market laws

Maybe not, but I fail to see how Quebec's seperation from Canada will help stop globalization. Anyone wanna fill me in on how this theory is supposed to work?


That is why it's not always appropriate to call us seperatists


....
You want to seperate, correct? Then you are seperatists.



S_lone, I understand your point quite well. Your point is that, because of childish, starry-eyed and overly romanticized reasons the province of Quebec has convinced itself that the best thing for it to do is to abandon its powerful position in a country that has treated you like gold, and leap forward into a future as a nation defined by obscurity and overwhelming debt.

Go nuts, S-Lone. Vote with all your heart. But please don't come begging back to us when your economy tanks and your belle Province becomes a third world nation.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Go nuts, S-Lone. Vote with all your heart. But please don't come begging back to us when your economy tanks and your belle Province becomes a third world nation.

OR.........the US comes in and either BUYS Quebec or simply takes over ......getting a physical foothold in Canada too. Not out of the realm of possibility.

be careful what you want Mr.Quebec.........as you might get more than ya bargain for. :x

 

[no1important]

RE: Québec's destiny will

I just hope a straight forward simple yes/no question is asked next time, not like the circle jerk of a question last time.

 

[DasFX]

It's been a long time I haven't been here, but at first sight, it seems nothing changed.

Sorry to break your party, but Québec's future will be decided by Québécois. You can say all the Chrétion's rhetoric you want, nobody believes them anymore in Québec.

Thank you for your time.

I agree. The fate of Quebec should be decided by les Quebecois alone. It would be nice if they set the bar higher than 50% + 1 since the decision is big, but I know that the PQ won't do that and that is their right. 50% + 1 is completely legal.

I would only hope that the question is clear and concise and that the people truely understand what they are voting for and what the consequences are.

The question should read: "Are you in favour of Quebec irrevocably becoming from this day forward, a independant nation, completely separate and sovereign from Canada?"

I mean that is a very clear question, it spells out the who, what, where, and when. The why is up to the people and the how will be negotiated after.

We all know that the government of Canada has no influence (rightfully so) on the question. But it should spell out how it will interpret a referendum question and how it will take a positive vote.

If in the end, Quebec does decide to sepearate, then we should respect their wishes. We should have true and open negotiations that include debt distribution and even territority changes. It will certainly have to be give and take. I know the issue of territory integrity is a hot topic, but really is must be open for negotiation. I mean, if a majority of people in a concentrated area of Quebec wish to remain in Canada, that too should be their right. I could see the Outaouais remaining in Canada, and Montreal becoming a type of Jerusalem or old Berlin. As for the North, that is up to the Cree.

Of course, I hope that Canada will remain united from coast to coast to coast!

 

[cub1c]

You want to seperate, correct? Then you are seperatists.

Nope, we want to build a new nation. You may think it's sematics, but it isn't.

 

[DasFX]

You want to seperate, correct? Then you are seperatists.

Nope, we want to build a new nation. You may think it's sematics, but it isn't.

Playing on sematics, I've always heard that Quebec is already a nation, so how come you still have to build it?